Now You Know One Autistic! Podcast
Episode Title: Missed Cues: Finding Love and Connection on the Autism Spectrum
Episode Number: 5
Release Date: May 5, 2024
Duration: 58:29
Episode Summary:
In this episode of Now You Know One Autistic, Moshe and Leah share their personal love story, spanning over three decades. They discuss the challenges and misunderstandings that arose due to Moshe's undiagnosed autism, highlighting the impact on their relationship. The episode delves into the complexities of communication, missed signals, and the emotional toll of unrequited feelings. Despite the obstacles, their story ultimately leads to a happy ending, emphasizing the power of perseverance, understanding, and acceptance in neurodiverse relationships.
Key Takeaways:
- Neurodiversity and Love: The episode explores the unique challenges and rewards of love in the context of neurodiversity, emphasizing the importance of open communication and understanding.
- Missed Signals and Misunderstandings: The hosts discuss how undiagnosed autism can lead to missed signals and misunderstandings in romantic relationships, highlighting the importance of clear communication and empathy.
- The Emotional Toll of Unrequited Feelings: The episode delves into the emotional impact of unrequited feelings, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and acceptance.
- The Power of Perseverance: Despite the challenges, Moshe and Leah's story demonstrates the power of perseverance and the possibility of finding love and happiness in neurodiverse relationships.
In This Episode, You Will Learn:
- The challenges of navigating romantic relationships with undiagnosed autism.
- The importance of clear communication and understanding in neurodiverse relationships.
- The emotional impact of unrequited feelings and the importance of self-awareness.
- The power of perseverance and the possibility of finding love and happiness despite challenges.
Quotes:
- "I knew to the extent that I suppose a seven-year-old can know that I was in love with her." - Moshe
- "I spent years, literal years, asking myself, why is she not understanding how I feel?" - Moshe
- "You can't sit around waiting for people to clue into something that you're not actually telling them." - Leah
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Transcript:
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Music.
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Hi, I'm Moshe, and I'm autistic. I'm Leah, and I'm boring.
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Welcome to Now You Know One Autistic, a podcast about neurodiversity in couples,
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marriage, meltdowns, and making it all work.
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The opinions expressed in this podcast reflect the experience of one couple and one autistic.
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Nothing that you hear in this podcast should be taken as a medical opinion,
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and unless otherwise stated, no one is an accredited specialist in any of the
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many fields that comprise the autism spectrum.
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But as someone who is on the autism spectrum, I feel that my experiences will
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be very valuable to many of you, whether you're on the spectrum,
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a support person like Leah, or just a curious bystander.
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If you think that you or someone you care about may be autistic,
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consult your family doctor.
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Music.
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Hi Moshe. Hi Leah. How are you today?
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Good, thanks. Awesome. So today we were doing some research about our further
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communication episodes and we actually decided that one of the topics we had
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thought was going to be a small thing turned out to be very dense.
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So we're going to to make it its own episode. This was meant to be episode three
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of Communicating About Communication, but we're feeling like we need to actually
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title it something because it's enough to stand alone.
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Yeah, it's actually a really exciting topic for both of us.
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It's something that we were really looking forward to getting into,
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but we really wanted to get through some of the initial stuff,
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the basic communication, some of the other topics we wanted to address.
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So this was actually an An episode that we had planned in some form or another,
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actually even before the podcast started,
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because it was based very strongly on us, as well as some of the things that we went through.
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Yeah, so what you guys are going to get today is actually the details. Yes.
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The sad, unfortunate, romantically beautiful, and scary, and I don't know,
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whatever else descriptive words you want to have with details.
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So, this is an episode that's going to be titled Love in the Spectrum.
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We are aware that there is a show called Love on the Spectrum,
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which some of you may have watched.
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There's the American version, and there's an Australian version.
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Out of curiosity, we've watched it. We have watched it.
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I'm not going to lie. And we have some thoughts in particular about one of the,
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I guess, contestants, because it was really, for me,
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because I was an adult-diagnosed autistic.
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Is that a word? Adult-diagnosed? Yeah. So because I was a late diagnosis. Yeah.
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Because I was a late diagnosis autistic, I ended up having to try and fill in
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a lot of gaps in my own life and find relevance.
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Because if you're diagnosed early and you can sort of grow up autistic,
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I mean, every autistic grows up autistic, you don't just kind of develop it
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at a later time, like a gray hair or whatever.
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But because I didn't have the chance, because I was denied, if you will,
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the opportunity to grow up autistic, I didn't actually understand why I did
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the things I did. I just did them.
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So looking back and accessing content of media and literature about autism,
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especially in younger people, really helped me to understand a lot of who I
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was and why I did the things I did.
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And because on this particular show, there were, I think all the people featured
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on the show are younger, not all of them, but a lot of them,
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most of them, in fact, are younger than I am.
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And because one of the things that I struggle with a lot is socializing in general
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and finding and being in healthy relationships in particular,
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not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't actually know how.
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And that's actually what we're going to get into a lot today.
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So we are going to discuss the show, but this episode is not solely about the
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show. It just plays into the overall theme.
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So I think that I should give you an idea about the inception of this idea,
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which was I take notes all the time.
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And underneath communication, I just had a footnote that said,
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when you just don't tell her.
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And as I started to think about it and I started to research it,
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it became just this enormous topic.
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That we thought deserved a lot of attention. So why did I write down,
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well, you just don't tell her?
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Let's summarize, and then let's go into the history and details of that.
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So the biggest question that I always had to think about,
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and that I spent basically my entire life, my entire life that I can remember
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thinking about when it comes to Leah, Leah is why I allow so many opportunities
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to let her know about how I felt for her.
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As you might have heard in our very first episode, Leah and I met when we were
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seven, and I knew to the extent that I suppose a seven-year-old can know that I was in love with her.
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And it's not uncommon for small children to declare that they're going to marry
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or they're They're in love with someone that they are friends with.
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But in my case, it was actually very true.
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And it's also not uncommon for that to change and not last, which is what everybody
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around us, maybe including ourselves, thought.
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And so we met when we were seven, pardon me.
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And we are now, to be fair, we're in our early 40s, and we've been together for a while, but not.
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As long as we would have liked. And it's not like we just kind of fell out of
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touch and didn't connect.
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We connected many times over the years, and somehow things just didn't click,
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in the way that we wanted them to.
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And I spent years, literal years, asking myself, why is she not understanding how I feel?
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And it turned out that it was because I never actually told her.
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And it seems so simple. It seems so basic. And for a neurotypical,
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potentially, because I mean, there's going to be different levels of social awareness and stuff.
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But the way it normally works is you have feelings for somebody.
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You either tell them or you don't tell them.
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Either you understand them or you don't understand them, or you are given the
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opportunity to be in a relationship with them or you're not.
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But in my case, it was much different than that because I spent many years of
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my life convinced that I was telling her every chance I got how I felt.
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And I wasn't doing it in the way that you would expect under the terms of the word tell,
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because I was telling her, but I was telling her by not using words that express that.
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So let's just give maybe a brief or it's not going to be so brief because it's
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a long history but let's talk about the actual events of what happened in our
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life and then let's sort of unpack why they went the way that they did.
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So as Moshe mentions we met when we were seven did you guys know that?
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Yes yeah first episode now you know one autistic and one Leah and you can check
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it out on all podcast streaming sites, as well as YouTube and on our homepage at Podbean.
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And we were very close, as we mentioned in the first episode as well.
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Best friends, different socioeconomic backgrounds, different circles,
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except for the fact that we would see each other all the time.
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And as you have friends, especially of the opposite gender, when you grow up
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or as you grow up and become a teenager, certain feelings tend to happen.
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It yes and those feelings it
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turns out happened for both of us but we
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continued to have sometimes not
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even so near misses we actually dated for a while and didn't even acknowledge
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that we were dating yes just to give you an idea of that and and how out of
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awareness i was i only found out that we were dating when when leah of a mind
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didn't read that we were dating i actually was
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under the impression that we'd never dated, not officially.
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It wasn't official because we never talked about it. Right. Well,
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we absolutely went on dates.
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Yes. The whole going to a museum, going to a movie, sitting across from each
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other and drinking the malted milkshakes, the whole thing.
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Like, it was really adorable when you think of it. It was. It was dating without
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like a label. It was label-less dating.
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It was like one of those cans that you find at the grocery store where the label
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fell And you're like, it's in the vegetable aisle, so it's probably vegetables,
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but it might not be. We were dating.
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We were doing dating activities. So we were probably dating,
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but we might not have been.
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Right. So the thing that for me made it feel like dating was how I felt about you.
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And I would just look at you and I would wonder, why is he so dumb?
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Other boys in my life were assertive about how they were feeling.
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And I was assertive about telling them I didn't want any of them.
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And I was just kind of waiting for him to do the thing so I could be like,
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yeah, let's date or kiss me or something.
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And those things just never happened. We're talking about, we're about what,
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14, 15? It was about early teens.
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That's generally the most common time that these sorts of feelings start happening.
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Obviously, the concept of no longer playing in mixed gender groups happens a lot earlier.
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But when you get to be 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, that's when these sorts of feelings start happening.
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Because even though, whether or not you're neurodivergent or nanotechnical or
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whatever, your development in your mind and your emotions and your concept of
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self might be delayed to a certain extent.
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But your brain and your hormones know exactly what age you are.
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And they kick in as you would expect them to at that time.
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Yes. So I think I can't summarize that era of tying much more other than to
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say that we both had feelings, all the feelings you would expect,
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wink, wink, at that time.
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And nothing really ever came of it because we were both, I mean,
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I don't think he was shy. I think he was clueless, but I was shy.
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I was very clueless because I knew exactly how I felt And I was certainly not
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shy to share my feelings inappropriately with other people, those kinds of feelings
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and others, but never with her.
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And we had a lot of discussions about that.
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And it turned out that I actually was expressing myself to her.
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She just wasn't listening to me. And that was...
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Because I had sort of routined her into just someone that was very close to
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me and very important to me and very internalized to me.
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And it was very hard for me to, I guess you could say, break the mold.
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Yes. Changing that kind of relationship is very difficult.
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But around that time, you know, teens and more olds, we both very desperately
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wanted to, but we just never understood. For sure.
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So then came, I mean, I think maybe around the time I gave up was when I got
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the courage to ask you to my school dance.
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Now we danced and really close and everything.
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It's very nice. It was very nice to have been invited.
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But I lacked an awareness about how these things were supposed to go.
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So, because very much at that time, and still sometimes presently,
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I needed a lot of prompting.
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And my own family had ingrained in me the concept that relationships were not
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necessarily, you know, serious for me.
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My, you know, family would talk a lot about me having girlfriends and,
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you know, do you have any crushes?
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And of course, they'd go, ooh, you like this person. And it was very awkward
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for me because it's sad to say, I didn't know what liking a person entailed.
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I didn't know what being in a relationship with someone entailed.
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I didn't know how to get to the level of being in a relationship.
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Most of my relationships at that point, regardless of what they were,
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were basically, I was existing in their space and things happened differently.
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Mostly by accident rather than on purpose. So it was like basically for me standing
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at the edge of a, of a, of a chasm of a canyon and looking across at Leah and
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going, gosh, I'd really like to be there.
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Yes, because I was one who was always very proper. Right.
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So if somebody, for example, was sitting with you in your room and they did,
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you know, stuff to you, you would do it, but I would never do that because I
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was always very proper that way.
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And the understanding that I had, completely by accident, actually,
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was that any affection that you gave me was done in a very silly way.
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Like, there were certain occasions where my sister dared you to kiss me,
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and then you kissed me, and then ran away laughing.
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So I got the impression, well, this is how she sees me.
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She sees me like I'm just a, you know, silly boy that you can do stuff to and then run away.
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Way so obviously she doesn't actually consider me to
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be a serious person in a relationship and i
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don't really know what our relationship even involves but i'm
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pretty sure that it shouldn't involve you know
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kissing and then running away laughing yeah but in
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reality is you know a lot of people as well it was
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a very normal developmental stage oh boy
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cute kiss because i had
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a hard time reading with signals and nuances and you
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basically had to shout in my face what you
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wanted i might have gotten it i might not have gotten
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it on my own most of the time i wouldn't because i
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was very socially inept at that point i just did so at that point i'm not gonna
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lie i i knew that moshe had feelings for me because occasionally he would just
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look up from his whatever if he was doing and his i i hate to use it but a lot
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of people use it from his own little world that she was in.
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And he'd look at me and she would just say, oh, you're so pretty.
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And then I would go, yeah, and, and, and then I would be, no. Right.
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But that was my love language. My love language was compliments.
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So I was like, I know you like me, but what are you going to do with it?
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As you would say, put verbs in your sentence.
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Yes. But I figured, wrongly, as it turns out, and this is a lesson to all other
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neurodivergents who are looking to add your relationship, chips,
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regardless of what age you might be at, that simply providing them feedback is not enough.
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You can't sit around waiting for people to clue in to something that you're
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not actually telling them.
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And you could easily say, well, she wasn't not saying that she wanted to be
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with me, but she was also not saying that she was.
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And here I was, in my own mind, being clear about my intentions,
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I wanted to touch her a lot, not that way necessarily, but I wanted to, to hug her.
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I wanted to tell her how pretty she was. I kept looking at her.
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I, I would do things for her, like how much more obvious than I would be that I had feelings.
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It turns out quite obvious because I never actually said I have feelings.
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I caught that you had feelings. For me, the what are you going to do about it
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thing was the unclear part. Right.
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So a little bit later on, it wasn't much further on, which is a really sad part of our story.
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Some bad things happened in Moshe's life, and he decided to move across the
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country to be with his father.
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And that to this day is
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kind of a painful thing for both of us because he actually
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took the time and those of you who
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maybe know an autistic or two might know
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that that's significant he actually took the time to take me on a walk and tell
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me and i didn't really want him to go and he was waiting for you to say don't
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go let's be together absolutely but i didn't because i said well you're are
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clearly unhappy and this is what's best for you. So you should go.
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It was a very difficult time for me. And I mean, I don't mind getting into the details of it.
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That will take too much time. Yes. But I'll kind of summarize a little bit.
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I had recently ended a very toxic friendship that I have with someone and I
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wanted potentially more.
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The jury's still out whether I wanted to be with them or whether I wanted to be like them.
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It was also the year my grandfather died. He had been sick for a very long time
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and my grandfather had died and my, my father had,
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my father and mother had gotten separated or divorced when I was only four,
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which is how they ended up meeting, which are two of our mom groups.
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And I'd always had a very difficult relationship with my father.
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I'm not going to get into it because, again, it's very long,
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very detailed, and also it's perhaps not even that fair, although I'm happy
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to talk about it privately.
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But there was always like chance meetings between him and I.
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And so this was like the first big move, like, I have the space for you.
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You're going to have a dajra.
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You have this life waiting for you.
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And if you would like to, we would like to have you come live with us.
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And I didn't really see an alternative at that point.
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In hindsight, it was one of the worst decisions I ever made because that year
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was a terrible year for me and I ended up shortly thereafter returning to Montreal,
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a complete emotional wreck.
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Yes, so let's fast forward to that. Sure.
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Maybe a year later, I want to say. I haven't seen you talk to William and Brittany or anything.
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Right. About a year later, I had sort of not given up on him.
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I always remembered him.
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I was deeply in love with him, but I didn't actually know that because I was young myself.
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I always thought of him, talked about him and stuff, but I had sort of given
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up on him ever being there.
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So I graduated high school, and I moved on with my life, and I made new friends,
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and I made a relationship happen.
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I went back to school because I hadn't finished all of the courses I needed
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to get into the college course that I wanted.
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So I went to, it was called the High School of Montreal at the time.
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It's for people who want to do sort of the higher level high school stuff before
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they can get into college of their choice.
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And there during registration lo
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and behold there he was yes and i
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just i couldn't believe that he was
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standing in front of me and it was the same old awkward thing like hey hey how
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you been doing buddy old friend old pal anyway math class i guess and and he
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didn't do much to stop that reaction Yeah, it was.
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I was there for the purposes of high school finishing.
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I had been unable to complete high school across the country due to the same
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issues that led me to be kind of forcibly returned to Montreal.
283
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And seeing Leah there was amazing.
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It was a very difficult thing for me because on one hand, I deeply regretted
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leaving in the first place, not so much the city because I always hated Montreal,
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but seeing like, but leaving her, I had had a lot of very bad experiences and
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she was my rock and I felt a lot of shame.
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Like I didn't deserve to see her like, like this was my punishment for forever
289
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leaving in the first place.
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And I was still very much unable to fully express my feelings,
291
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but I knew, I always knew, but I knew at that time that I was very deeply in
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love with her, but that I had probably missed my chance.
293
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But I still liked to see her. I still liked to spend time with her.
294
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So what happened was I did go
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to math class and he wasn't in my math class because he had gone that far.
296
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I don't know that you've ever gone that far in math or more of an art and history guy.
297
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Yeah. After I left class, he was outside waiting for me, which I knew.
298
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But then he claimed he wasn't waiting for me, which was frustrating.
299
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I totally was. I know. I just didn't want to seem like desperate or whatever.
300
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And ultimately, the conversation went, you know, this is what's been happening.
301
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In my life. This is what's been happening in my life.
302
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And I said, I have to go home.
303
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And he said, would you like to go out for a coffee? And I said,
304
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I can't right now because I have to go home.
305
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And what he heard was, no, no, never. You loser. I don't want to see you ever again.
306
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And that was a very tragic and sad thing because that was the last time we saw
307
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each other for Yeah, I took my shot in my mind.
308
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And I, as an autistic person,
309
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even though I wasn't diagnosed anywhere close to that point,
310
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I always struggle with formulating my thoughts into, you know, words that make sense.
311
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And I knew that this was my shot, and if I were to express myself, I had to do it then.
312
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And what I came up with was, well, I'll ask her for coffee, and based on what
313
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she says, I'll know how she feels.
314
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And what I got was...
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No, because it was, it was something that I had really worked myself up towards.
316
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And the, the reality was that was my shot.
317
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And she, by not dropping everything and running to my side and saying,
318
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of course, I'll go for coffee with you. I love you.
319
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And then music plays in the background and with it happily ever after.
320
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It was very much, it was very much a no. No.
321
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And I didn't really spend much time processing anything after, like, I can't.
322
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And that's exactly where it was left for me.
323
00:23:51,506 --> 00:23:59,406
So, I, you know, stubbornly neurotypically didn't play my role in that unspoken romance story.
324
00:23:59,746 --> 00:24:02,886
So, we're going to fast forward again. This is a difficult one.
325
00:24:03,086 --> 00:24:07,346
It involves a lot of people. We're not going to name any names or give any details
326
00:24:07,346 --> 00:24:13,546
because it actually involves other people being involved and hurt.
327
00:24:14,426 --> 00:24:19,726
We're going to fast forward now seven years? Seven or eight years. Seven or eight years.
328
00:24:20,286 --> 00:24:25,966
I am engaged to this relationship that I mentioned happened when I was 16.
329
00:24:26,466 --> 00:24:32,646
He is married to somebody else with a baby out there on the way.
330
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And his mother was maintaining sort
331
00:24:36,366 --> 00:24:39,366
of a friendship with my mother has decided that she
332
00:24:39,366 --> 00:24:42,066
doesn't like his life situation and she doesn't like
333
00:24:42,066 --> 00:24:47,986
his wife and that i would be a fantastic carrot on a stick to change that yes
334
00:24:47,986 --> 00:24:57,526
i was i was married because it was be careful i was married because it seemed
335
00:24:57,526 --> 00:25:00,666
like the right thing to do given my current life circumstances
336
00:25:00,986 --> 00:25:04,906
and I'm not going to give
337
00:25:04,906 --> 00:25:07,826
details because that person is still
338
00:25:07,826 --> 00:25:11,386
as far as I know around and I
339
00:25:11,386 --> 00:25:16,786
had a role to play and it's not always you know a pleasant role on my part either
340
00:25:16,786 --> 00:25:28,626
but the reality was I was very lonely and I had been trying to form relationships
341
00:25:28,886 --> 00:25:35,686
and i felt that as long as i ended up with somebody that eventually.
342
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Leah and i would be together i didn't know
343
00:25:39,326 --> 00:25:45,826
when and i didn't know how but something in my mind told me that if i just found
344
00:25:45,826 --> 00:25:54,526
a distraction and took my time that eventually it would all work And it didn't
345
00:25:54,526 --> 00:25:58,826
because as much as I had a plan in my mind,
346
00:25:58,886 --> 00:26:02,726
it didn't quite work out because it involved other people.
347
00:26:02,806 --> 00:26:05,646
And one of the things that you will hear is,
348
00:26:06,316 --> 00:26:09,816
about autistics is that unfortunately
349
00:26:09,816 --> 00:26:12,576
and on no exception to this they can be very
350
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selfish and i was only thinking about
351
00:26:15,416 --> 00:26:18,376
myself and i was only thinking about my circumstances and i
352
00:26:18,376 --> 00:26:21,756
was only thinking about what i wanted
353
00:26:21,756 --> 00:26:29,336
and in doing so i involved a lot of people that really had no business being
354
00:26:29,336 --> 00:26:35,616
involved in what was basically just me trying to placate myself in preparation
355
00:26:35,616 --> 00:26:41,156
integration for a time in determining in the future when I could be with Leah. So very differently.
356
00:26:41,736 --> 00:26:47,036
I went into my, you want to call it secondary relationship, which was my primary marriage.
357
00:26:47,176 --> 00:26:50,776
I don't know how it's, it's not a person, but the best of intentions,
358
00:26:50,976 --> 00:26:56,616
you know, I wasn't as romantically enamored with them as I was with Moshe,
359
00:26:56,696 --> 00:26:59,296
but they were a really good friend and we had a good time together.
360
00:26:59,996 --> 00:27:02,776
They were, I don't know, good enough to To build a life with?
361
00:27:02,876 --> 00:27:06,576
Because I don't know if he would ever come around, especially when he married
362
00:27:06,576 --> 00:27:09,256
someone else and had children. I went, okay, well, I guess that's it.
363
00:27:09,716 --> 00:27:12,516
Maybe we'll be together, you know, when our spouse is dying,
364
00:27:12,536 --> 00:27:16,376
we're 80 and the old folks home. But that was kind of where my head was at.
365
00:27:17,398 --> 00:27:22,738
So, this time happened, and it sort of revolved around his sister's wedding.
366
00:27:23,178 --> 00:27:29,778
That was the premise or the guise that our moms had for getting us to see each other, I think.
367
00:27:30,178 --> 00:27:33,858
Because otherwise, I hadn't been in touch with my sister that much,
368
00:27:33,978 --> 00:27:38,058
so there was no other reason for them to invite us to. Yeah.
369
00:27:39,358 --> 00:27:43,918
And I, what year was that? 2006.
370
00:28:13,798 --> 00:28:17,018
That was 2006. I had basically decided about a minute or two after I met them
371
00:28:17,018 --> 00:28:22,478
that I didn't actually want to be with them, and I didn't really know how to do anything about that.
372
00:28:22,758 --> 00:28:32,198
So when 2006 happened, I was basically trying to find a way out.
373
00:28:32,658 --> 00:28:40,678
So it led to us seeing each other and, of course, everybody in the situation, including my spouse.
374
00:28:40,678 --> 00:28:45,698
I don't think his spouse really understood, my spouse did, that the second we
375
00:28:45,698 --> 00:28:50,918
shot each other, there was going to be just fireworks and issues for everybody.
376
00:28:51,158 --> 00:28:52,558
And that's exactly what happened.
377
00:28:53,058 --> 00:28:57,518
Shortly thereafter, he decided to move back to Montreal where I was,
378
00:28:57,538 --> 00:28:58,918
but bring his entire family.
379
00:28:59,478 --> 00:29:03,218
Again, under the guise of, I don't know, a better job or a better life or something.
380
00:29:03,778 --> 00:29:06,618
Which, of course, myself and my spouse who...
381
00:29:07,433 --> 00:29:13,193
Infinite litigation helped us get them an apartment being set up and everything.
382
00:29:13,453 --> 00:29:17,333
And we were good. We were really good for a really, really long time.
383
00:29:17,733 --> 00:29:23,353
We resisted the urge to be romantic for a very, very long time and kept things just friendly.
384
00:29:24,093 --> 00:29:28,353
And then some things, I don't want to get into the details of it,
385
00:29:28,353 --> 00:29:31,973
but some things changed that led to a discussion. Yes, Shane.
386
00:29:32,413 --> 00:29:36,273
The first one, actually, of its kind that we'd had that was completely honest,
387
00:29:36,533 --> 00:29:39,433
where he asked me how I really felt, and I told him.
388
00:29:39,873 --> 00:29:45,773
And then problems happen. Right. There was some really bad behavior on everybody's
389
00:29:45,773 --> 00:29:49,713
part, which led to some really hurt feelings.
390
00:29:50,513 --> 00:29:53,973
And ultimately, me saying, this is not correct.
391
00:29:54,253 --> 00:29:59,373
You have a family, and I can't be responsible for this, and sort of ending things.
392
00:29:59,373 --> 00:30:02,453
It was a very difficult time for both of us.
393
00:30:02,793 --> 00:30:10,193
And I just want to say for the record that I acknowledge now that infidelity
394
00:30:10,193 --> 00:30:14,893
in relationships is unacceptable in the best of circumstances.
395
00:30:14,893 --> 00:30:17,693
And when you had someone like me,
396
00:30:17,853 --> 00:30:22,493
who at the time didn't actually think that I was doing anything wrong,
397
00:30:22,633 --> 00:30:28,033
because I hadn't formed the kind of feelings that you would normally have seen
398
00:30:28,033 --> 00:30:30,153
when you're in a relationship.
399
00:30:30,653 --> 00:30:36,153
So it was on me to apply the brakes. And of course, he took that again as an
400
00:30:36,153 --> 00:30:37,893
absolute rejection. Mm-hmm.
401
00:30:38,653 --> 00:30:48,173
I took that as a rejection, and subsequently, we left Montreal and moved around a bit.
402
00:30:48,413 --> 00:30:51,893
For the record, this is not the first time either of our spouses are hearing
403
00:30:51,893 --> 00:30:55,533
about this, just in case they actually are listening and feel bad for them.
404
00:30:55,613 --> 00:30:58,473
I believe we both confessed everything then. then
405
00:30:58,473 --> 00:31:02,333
yes so the as i said
406
00:31:02,333 --> 00:31:05,073
essentially when we left famous in
407
00:31:05,073 --> 00:31:07,973
montreal both of our spouses at the time were
408
00:31:07,973 --> 00:31:12,613
aware of what had happened so it wasn't like like as a role this is like the
409
00:31:12,613 --> 00:31:17,753
first time they're hearing yes and again over the course of the past few years
410
00:31:17,753 --> 00:31:23,593
we have to the best of our own abilities that would be good to make amends for
411
00:31:23,593 --> 00:31:26,353
the actions that we that we did and the roles that we played,
412
00:31:26,473 --> 00:31:33,053
and neither of our actions were very positive, and it's definitely something
413
00:31:33,053 --> 00:31:35,793
that we're not particularly proud of.
414
00:31:35,993 --> 00:31:46,513
That having been said, it was an opportunity for both of us to reflect on our
415
00:31:46,513 --> 00:31:50,113
own relationships and decide where to go from there.
416
00:31:50,113 --> 00:31:53,173
And at least in my case
417
00:31:53,173 --> 00:32:00,573
where i went was to the dog house which honestly is is where i deserve to be
418
00:32:00,573 --> 00:32:06,253
at that time because it was completely unfair and unreasonable for me to act
419
00:32:06,253 --> 00:32:13,153
in the way that i did and i really should have had the presence of mind to end things.
420
00:32:14,437 --> 00:32:18,557
Or not even start things before that. And that was the premise of my supposed rejection.
421
00:32:18,997 --> 00:32:22,617
What I actually was saying to him was, you need to end things and get your head
422
00:32:22,617 --> 00:32:25,897
straight before we even consider this. And he burned out. Right.
423
00:32:26,837 --> 00:32:32,237
Because I'll freely admit that, as you can hear at the end of each of our episodes,
424
00:32:32,797 --> 00:32:35,637
autistics often have a hard time ending interaction.
425
00:32:35,637 --> 00:32:38,857
Action and if you take that
426
00:32:38,857 --> 00:32:42,217
and then we multiply it by like a
427
00:32:42,217 --> 00:32:45,177
thousand and you can possibly see how
428
00:32:45,177 --> 00:32:50,657
difficult it was for me to end a marriage i want everybody to keep in mind that
429
00:32:50,657 --> 00:32:54,877
neither of us knew that moshe was autistic at this so it's not like i i was
430
00:32:54,877 --> 00:32:58,877
currently under if i had the understanding that i was autistic so i thought
431
00:32:58,877 --> 00:33:03,217
it was just this normal man bizarre behavior behavior, bad behavior.
432
00:33:03,557 --> 00:33:06,637
So this happened in 2006.
433
00:33:07,217 --> 00:33:14,917
My then wife at the time and I fully separated seven years later in 2013.
434
00:33:15,357 --> 00:33:20,977
So that was seven years of us essentially playing chicken with each other and
435
00:33:20,977 --> 00:33:28,017
trying to provide the other reasons to leave so that that didn't have to be the bad way.
436
00:33:28,617 --> 00:33:33,457
So while you were in the doghouse, where I got sent to was directly to the altar.
437
00:33:33,777 --> 00:33:39,277
Because despite all that had happened, my partner actually still wanted to be
438
00:33:39,277 --> 00:33:42,317
with me enough that they wanted to lock me down.
439
00:33:43,037 --> 00:33:47,737
So I got the, I'll forgive you, but we're getting married right away talk.
440
00:33:47,877 --> 00:33:48,677
And that's what happened.
441
00:33:49,857 --> 00:33:56,337
And I heard about it because, and again, it doesn't look very good for either
442
00:33:56,337 --> 00:33:57,777
of us in a very positive light.
443
00:33:58,017 --> 00:34:08,057
But my wife at the time felt that the best way for me to get over Leah was to
444
00:34:08,057 --> 00:34:14,077
be reminded constantly that she disliked me by making up allegations of things that I had done to her,
445
00:34:14,177 --> 00:34:16,637
which I absolutely did not do. you.
446
00:34:16,657 --> 00:34:21,437
And she had no idea that it was even being told to me.
447
00:34:21,897 --> 00:34:29,977
And it was a way of just breaking me down to a point where I realized that this
448
00:34:29,977 --> 00:34:34,157
is where I was, this is where I needed to stand.
449
00:34:34,557 --> 00:34:37,917
Because when it came to it, she rejected me.
450
00:34:38,457 --> 00:34:45,417
My wife at the time was my only person who stuck by me when she absolutely shouldn't
451
00:34:45,417 --> 00:34:49,837
have, and she absolutely had no business doing, and I'll firmly admit that.
452
00:34:50,197 --> 00:34:53,917
And it was through her own efforts,
453
00:34:54,117 --> 00:35:01,097
through her own Herculean, saintly efforts, that she even could deign herself
454
00:35:01,097 --> 00:35:06,777
to look at me after what I do, which is unreasonable, but I'll admit it.
455
00:35:08,514 --> 00:35:12,914
A lot of this was helped in 2011 when my mother died.
456
00:35:13,834 --> 00:35:17,574
And if you look at our website, if you go to the bottom on the Podbean website,
457
00:35:17,894 --> 00:35:24,234
you'll see a picture of Leah and I and my mother and half of my sister's face.
458
00:35:25,754 --> 00:35:33,294
And my mother was a very important person in my life and in Leah's life.
459
00:35:33,294 --> 00:35:38,774
And she was one of the only people, besides her own mother, of course,
460
00:35:38,934 --> 00:35:40,334
that we shared in a comment.
461
00:35:40,654 --> 00:35:49,114
And when my mother died in 2011, it was an opportunity for her to remind me
462
00:35:49,114 --> 00:35:53,814
that despite our shared history, Leah didn't even bother to contact me.
463
00:35:53,874 --> 00:35:59,374
That having been said, she was actually told not to contact me. Right.
464
00:35:59,434 --> 00:36:04,274
So, again, nobody can blame this person for what they did because they were
465
00:36:04,274 --> 00:36:08,354
just trying to salvage what they had left of their life.
466
00:36:08,634 --> 00:36:12,314
But they took it upon themselves to contact me about the death,
467
00:36:12,474 --> 00:36:16,914
therefore blocking any reason that I may have to contact him.
468
00:36:17,294 --> 00:36:20,174
And, you know, at the time, I figured it was fair.
469
00:36:20,534 --> 00:36:26,174
I don't know. So that's, I mean, that was just a nail in the coffin for him
470
00:36:26,174 --> 00:36:28,594
about how she doesn't care about me.
471
00:36:28,694 --> 00:36:32,634
And for me, it was just, you know, is he all right? Okay, I guess I'll move
472
00:36:32,634 --> 00:36:36,614
on. Because it was awkward enough talking to his wife, truthfully.
473
00:36:37,054 --> 00:36:39,594
It was a very difficult time for me.
474
00:36:40,787 --> 00:36:48,267
But it was even more difficult the next year, which, I mean, Leah can get into.
475
00:36:48,507 --> 00:36:50,567
Because that was the year that Raya was born.
476
00:36:50,947 --> 00:36:58,887
Right. So, fast forwarding. Yes. Mom passed in September of 2011.
477
00:36:59,387 --> 00:37:02,787
My mom, not hers. Her mom is alive. My mom is alive, thank God.
478
00:37:02,827 --> 00:37:05,727
Not necessarily doing well right now, but we can talk about that.
479
00:37:06,467 --> 00:37:13,687
And I became pregnant with Raya in November with my then-spouse.
480
00:37:14,807 --> 00:37:22,407
And unbeknownst to me, again, in an effort to continually remind Moshe Ha'at, I hated him,
481
00:37:23,147 --> 00:37:29,827
his spouse was showing him all the photos of my pregnancy and how happy I was
482
00:37:29,827 --> 00:37:35,547
with my husband and the birth and this beautiful new baby and saying some things
483
00:37:35,547 --> 00:37:39,127
that weren't very nice to them. Not about me, but to him.
484
00:37:40,547 --> 00:37:45,807
And I didn't actually know. I just, my first baby with, you know,
485
00:37:45,807 --> 00:37:51,327
somebody who I didn't, again, particularly feel supported by or crazy in love with.
486
00:37:51,367 --> 00:37:54,107
However, there were really good sign-in bites.
487
00:37:55,127 --> 00:38:01,647
And to be fair to them, And this may have been done at the time as a way of
488
00:38:01,647 --> 00:38:07,667
reminding me that I was, you know, I guess we use the word pining for someone
489
00:38:07,667 --> 00:38:09,207
who had clearly moved on,
490
00:38:09,347 --> 00:38:17,467
given all the happy Facebook photos and the new baby and, you know, her wonderful husband.
491
00:38:17,567 --> 00:38:22,447
And like, why are you still thinking about this person when they're clearly
492
00:38:22,447 --> 00:38:23,767
not even thinking about you?
493
00:38:23,767 --> 00:38:29,927
And in fact, what it did is remind me about how unhappy I was,
494
00:38:30,107 --> 00:38:35,587
and it further divided us because it was...
495
00:38:37,294 --> 00:38:44,994
Shortly after Raya was born, I found it within myself to decide that I was no
496
00:38:44,994 --> 00:38:46,694
longer going to stay with this person.
497
00:38:47,034 --> 00:38:51,474
The circumstances that led to that are not necessarily so favorable for me either.
498
00:38:52,394 --> 00:38:59,614
But to make another long story short, I had begun another relationship at that point.
499
00:38:59,614 --> 00:39:04,194
And rather than make the same mistakes that I had made with Leah,
500
00:39:04,354 --> 00:39:09,214
I had decided to be honest about it.
501
00:39:09,874 --> 00:39:17,274
And my wife at the time finally left. We didn't actually legally get divorced for another two years.
502
00:39:17,754 --> 00:39:23,094
And we tried to maintain the relationship for the sake of our daughter to the
503
00:39:23,094 --> 00:39:24,914
extent that it was possible.
504
00:39:25,154 --> 00:39:31,394
But my marriage at that point was over. over, and now I could freely begin to
505
00:39:31,394 --> 00:39:36,714
plan my next move in trying to win back Leah.
506
00:39:36,914 --> 00:39:44,054
Right. So he moves like a turtle, because we're going to fast forward another eight years.
507
00:39:44,454 --> 00:39:47,514
Yes. I now have a second child with
508
00:39:47,514 --> 00:39:51,674
this person, and we've settled into a comfortable enough life together.
509
00:39:51,894 --> 00:39:57,474
We have all the things we need and we have friends and the children are in school
510
00:39:57,474 --> 00:40:01,194
and we've settled into a routine. And then the pandemic happens.
511
00:40:01,954 --> 00:40:10,414
During the pandemic, my spouse made a decision or revealed something that was already there.
512
00:40:10,614 --> 00:40:16,614
I can't really tell you what, and I'm not going to get into it because I actually
513
00:40:16,614 --> 00:40:18,694
feel that I need to talk to them before we can.
514
00:40:18,754 --> 00:40:22,334
Maybe that can be a future episode. Maybe they can even call on. We'll see.
515
00:40:23,503 --> 00:40:27,443
That changed everybody's life and everything.
516
00:40:28,043 --> 00:40:31,943
And I tried to hang on, I really did, because being a child of divorce,
517
00:40:32,043 --> 00:40:34,003
you don't want to put your own children through that.
518
00:40:34,523 --> 00:40:40,023
But it was about a year into, you know, me trying to hold on through these changes
519
00:40:40,023 --> 00:40:48,663
that I became so depressed and so upset that I just sort of felt like I couldn't go on.
520
00:40:48,743 --> 00:40:54,383
And the first person to come to mind that was going to rescue me was Moshe.
521
00:40:55,063 --> 00:41:00,043
So in the end, as it was always going to be, it was me who reached out.
522
00:41:00,503 --> 00:41:02,443
And I reached out with the funniest
523
00:41:02,443 --> 00:41:06,883
of questions and with no intentions necessarily. I just wanted to know.
524
00:41:07,263 --> 00:41:12,903
And what I asked him was, hey, remember that time in 1998 when you saw me at
525
00:41:12,903 --> 00:41:13,823
the High School of Montreal?
526
00:41:14,583 --> 00:41:18,383
If we'd gone out for coffee, would we have ended up together?
527
00:41:18,383 --> 00:41:21,343
Brother part one of the question and part two
528
00:41:21,343 --> 00:41:24,503
of the question is have you ever found happiness
529
00:41:24,503 --> 00:41:27,783
because i don't think i'm happy without you and then
530
00:41:27,783 --> 00:41:30,703
stuff and then our life
531
00:41:30,703 --> 00:41:33,743
actually because in an
532
00:41:33,743 --> 00:41:37,903
incredibly selfish self-interested and
533
00:41:37,903 --> 00:41:41,103
ignorant way i had literally been
534
00:41:41,103 --> 00:41:44,103
waiting for a sign from Leah that she was ready for
535
00:41:44,103 --> 00:41:47,163
me and this was my sign and I said okay so now
536
00:41:47,163 --> 00:41:49,943
we are going to be together this is going
537
00:41:49,943 --> 00:41:55,423
to be our happy ending and this is the moment that I've spent at least you know
538
00:41:55,423 --> 00:42:02,243
the last what is like 14 years waiting for this this is it like this is this
539
00:42:02,243 --> 00:42:08,163
is the moment this is our fairy tale ending and and much like the the coyote
540
00:42:08,163 --> 00:42:09,923
that finally catches the Roadrunner,
541
00:42:10,043 --> 00:42:14,103
I hadn't actually thought any further ahead than that.
542
00:42:14,303 --> 00:42:16,003
I was like, okay, I got her.
543
00:42:16,923 --> 00:42:20,483
So now I got nothing.
544
00:42:20,683 --> 00:42:24,923
So we had to basically, I had to figure out what to do now. Right.
545
00:42:25,283 --> 00:42:29,203
So ultimately in a lot of ways, it was a beautiful happy ending.
546
00:42:29,383 --> 00:42:34,823
We talked for a long time and then I sort of consciously uncoupled from my spouse
547
00:42:34,823 --> 00:42:38,703
at that time because we were still living across the country and gone back to
548
00:42:38,703 --> 00:42:43,743
in British Columbia for no discernible reason. But anyway, that's where he was. So much of an idea.
549
00:42:43,963 --> 00:42:48,023
And I had more freedom and resources than he did at the time. So I went to see him.
550
00:42:48,403 --> 00:42:51,983
And to him, that was, that's it, we're married now. To me, it was like,
551
00:42:52,063 --> 00:42:53,543
okay, well, I'm going to see where this goes.
552
00:42:53,623 --> 00:42:57,883
And where it went was we were very clearly in love and this was going to be a thing.
553
00:42:58,623 --> 00:43:05,423
And I started to slowly move myself and my children and my life to British Columbia after that.
554
00:43:05,923 --> 00:43:10,083
And you'll hear a lot about the struggles we've had as we go along in the podcast,
555
00:43:10,403 --> 00:43:14,283
but it was in a lot of ways a very beautiful happy ending, but also a very difficult ending.
556
00:43:15,275 --> 00:43:19,755
Interesting beginning. When you've spent your entire life essentially waiting
557
00:43:19,755 --> 00:43:25,415
for a moment that someone else had to initiate, you kind of write a script for yourself.
558
00:43:25,695 --> 00:43:29,735
And when the script is over, you kind of have to write a new one on the fly.
559
00:43:30,055 --> 00:43:36,495
And as you'll no doubt see from past episodes, and as you'll no doubt see in future episodes,
560
00:43:37,095 --> 00:43:39,995
autistics are not good at doing things was on the fly
561
00:43:39,995 --> 00:43:44,135
so i had to essentially discover without
562
00:43:44,135 --> 00:43:46,935
getting too much into it because it's definitely going to be
563
00:43:46,935 --> 00:43:49,895
like this episode's for sure gonna be two parts
564
00:43:49,895 --> 00:43:54,975
if not three because if you if you see our notes this was where are we like
565
00:43:54,975 --> 00:44:00,875
one paragraph in yeah of a four or five paragraph outline so there's going to
566
00:44:00,875 --> 00:44:07,215
be at least a couple of episodes just focused on the first three or four years of us together.
567
00:44:07,955 --> 00:44:14,275
And much like this episode, it's going to be very difficult because there's
568
00:44:14,275 --> 00:44:18,155
going to be a lot of really challenging topics that are going to be talked about.
569
00:44:18,295 --> 00:44:23,855
And it's not going to cast me in a very good light. I'll tell you that right
570
00:44:23,855 --> 00:44:25,195
now. Me neither, not always.
571
00:44:25,435 --> 00:44:28,735
And that's fine. People can call us on it or talk to us about it,
572
00:44:28,815 --> 00:44:30,715
message us. But you know what?
573
00:44:30,935 --> 00:44:36,155
This is actually the first episode where we sort of break away from the form
574
00:44:36,155 --> 00:44:44,215
of your average podcast, especially your average podcast regarding neurodiversity.
575
00:44:44,575 --> 00:44:45,735
And you say, you know what?
576
00:44:46,195 --> 00:44:49,795
It's not always going to be roses. Autistics can be real jerks,
577
00:44:49,795 --> 00:44:54,355
and they can be really stupid, and they could be really dense. Dense.
578
00:44:54,435 --> 00:45:02,035
And again, not all autistics, but this autistic right here was about as dense as dense can be.
579
00:45:02,135 --> 00:45:06,975
I'm not a scientist, but think of the densest mammal you can think of. I was that dense.
580
00:45:07,515 --> 00:45:09,675
Lead. Thank you. I was lead.
581
00:45:10,575 --> 00:45:14,935
I was as dense as lead. I mean, there are, I think, are denser ones,
582
00:45:15,035 --> 00:45:16,275
but I can't bring it to my group.
583
00:45:17,495 --> 00:45:20,815
So, yeah. What does this all have to do with everything?
584
00:45:21,015 --> 00:45:23,915
Well, I mean, if anybody's ever seen the
585
00:45:23,915 --> 00:45:26,915
living sliding doors there are moments in time
586
00:45:26,915 --> 00:45:29,615
many many moments during that story and i
587
00:45:29,615 --> 00:45:32,955
mean we've experienced it so we got all the details whereas we've sort of shared
588
00:45:32,955 --> 00:45:37,695
some of it with you where if i had known he was autistic or if i had understood
589
00:45:37,695 --> 00:45:42,295
my role in the situation i could have brought any of this to an end for either
590
00:45:42,295 --> 00:45:46,535
of us and everyone else that suffered from yes unfortunately Fortunately,
591
00:45:46,535 --> 00:45:48,655
being our second or third or fourth choices.
592
00:45:49,915 --> 00:45:56,895
So this is going to be about a one hour long prologue to the episode. Right.
593
00:45:57,715 --> 00:46:01,395
Because the episode. So what we're going to discuss in the next part of the
594
00:46:01,395 --> 00:46:04,575
episode, because I don't think we have time to get into it, is.
595
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:11,660
How autistic teenagers lead to be guided in terms of how to have a relationship,
596
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:16,080
how to segue from being a child to having romantic interests,
597
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,820
and what that might look like.
598
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:23,240
It's very pertinent to our situation because that's where we've ultimately decided
599
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:27,020
where we should have gotten together in order to maximize our happiness and
600
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:28,280
minimize hurting other people.
601
00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:32,720
You talk about watershed moments. and for
602
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:35,980
for me my life is full of watershed moments
603
00:46:35,980 --> 00:46:39,100
when it comes to Leah because in any
604
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:42,360
one of those occasions i mean definitely not
605
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,940
not the first meeting because seven-year-olds are not generally socially accepted
606
00:46:45,940 --> 00:46:52,340
to be married but at some point in the future possibly 98 the meeting there
607
00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:57,580
or possibly 97 we like to joke with raya that if we had gotten together when
608
00:46:57,580 --> 00:46:59,300
we should to have, she would be 30 years old.
609
00:46:59,460 --> 00:47:05,240
Right. And so what we're going to discuss in apparently the next episode is
610
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:12,720
going to be sort of a follow-up to last time's episode about social interactions.
611
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:19,820
Only we're going to take the one-hour or two-hour dinner party and really discuss
612
00:47:19,820 --> 00:47:23,460
how neurodivergents often
613
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:29,140
struggle to make the kinds of social connections that can lead to relationships,
614
00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:32,700
be they friendships or romantic relationships, the approach.
615
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,960
Right. And also the neurotypical person, right? The neurodifference.
616
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:42,880
Because for me, it took me until I was very much an adult, a married woman with children,
617
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,520
to understand that I could reach out to you and I didn't have to just wait there
618
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:53,920
for you to be the guy and be aggressive with me because that's what I use.
619
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,180
And as we mentioned at the beginning
620
00:47:57,180 --> 00:48:04,500
of the episode, the physical changes that happen with the person,
621
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,660
the bully or the girl, and again, if you want the details of it,
622
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,940
I'm sure there's plenty of podcasts about Peter here, are still happening.
623
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:18,060
But when you're looking at a neurodivergent who is still developmentally delayed
624
00:48:18,060 --> 00:48:20,620
in many ways, not always, but again, in many cases,
625
00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:25,340
you end up with a person who is developmentally at a certain point,
626
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,560
but physically, hormonally.
627
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,820
Sexually, at a different point.
628
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:38,940
And that can cause a significant conflict in how they relate to others and also
629
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:43,040
how they feel about themselves. So when I developed feelings,
630
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,900
they were an overall feeling, right?
631
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:51,040
I am now a maturing woman and I now have sexual attractions to people.
632
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,840
And this is just a thing that I have to date and get to know somebody before I can do.
633
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,500
Whereas you were very confused by her.
634
00:49:00,215 --> 00:49:06,575
I was, because essentially, you have a script in your head of just kind of following
635
00:49:06,575 --> 00:49:12,575
along with what you're feeling and what you're thinking and what you're interested
636
00:49:12,575 --> 00:49:14,955
in. And sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't.
637
00:49:15,035 --> 00:49:19,475
And sometimes you pursue it, and sometimes you don't. But when it comes to neurodivergence,
638
00:49:19,595 --> 00:49:22,595
and especially in the case of this one neurodivergent, again,
639
00:49:22,735 --> 00:49:27,875
one autistic, it was like there was a wall.
640
00:49:28,055 --> 00:49:37,955
It was like there was a divider between the me that was my interests and my
641
00:49:37,955 --> 00:49:40,855
focuses and my relationships.
642
00:49:41,395 --> 00:49:48,655
And then the me that was interested in pursuing things like a relationship and a romance and a family.
643
00:49:48,935 --> 00:49:52,635
And sometimes they don't. You'll hear a lot of stories about autistics that
644
00:49:52,635 --> 00:49:55,235
are like, I never want to have children. I never want to get married.
645
00:49:55,375 --> 00:49:58,175
I just want to play with my trains all day. And that's great.
646
00:49:58,355 --> 00:50:00,295
You know what? That's absolutely okay.
647
00:50:00,775 --> 00:50:07,455
But I didn't identify that. I basically spent my whole life looking up at this
648
00:50:07,455 --> 00:50:13,795
picture of a family They had a home and children and a wife and kids and the
649
00:50:13,795 --> 00:50:15,595
whole thing, a job, a career,
650
00:50:15,715 --> 00:50:18,135
and going, gosh, I wish I could get up there.
651
00:50:18,815 --> 00:50:23,235
And not knowing that I just needed to climb the stairs or take the elevator
652
00:50:23,235 --> 00:50:24,575
or whatever analogy you want to use.
653
00:50:24,755 --> 00:50:31,995
So I had the feelings in my mind of what I wanted, but I was so far down developmentally
654
00:50:31,995 --> 00:50:35,215
that I didn't know, number one, that I would be able to.
655
00:50:35,675 --> 00:50:39,035
Number two, that I was allowed to. number three
656
00:50:39,035 --> 00:50:41,835
that i know how to right so this is
657
00:50:41,835 --> 00:50:45,295
this is also very important because the whole
658
00:50:45,295 --> 00:50:51,715
next hour of this episode is going to be about how you can help your autistic
659
00:50:51,715 --> 00:50:56,815
teen or what should have been done for mosha because as you've expressed to
660
00:50:56,815 --> 00:51:01,235
me a lot of times you would have these thoughts in your head like i just want
661
00:51:01,235 --> 00:51:05,215
to finish this new video game i've been I don't want this feeling.
662
00:51:05,475 --> 00:51:09,375
Right. Like, I don't want to be attracted to this person. Or I don't want this
663
00:51:09,375 --> 00:51:11,155
thing to be happening in Penz region.
664
00:51:11,315 --> 00:51:14,095
I don't want this. Why can't this just go away?
665
00:51:14,415 --> 00:51:21,935
There was a joke that Jerry Seinfeld actually told, specifically related to
666
00:51:21,935 --> 00:51:27,715
why people in their office have pictures of their wife and kids and stuff all
667
00:51:27,715 --> 00:51:29,095
over their desk and on their cubicle.
668
00:51:29,095 --> 00:51:34,935
And he joked that it was because, you know, it's not like the office workers
669
00:51:34,935 --> 00:51:38,775
are going to go, okay, five o'clock, time for me to go hit the bars and the clubs. Let's go.
670
00:51:39,355 --> 00:51:41,895
Oh, shoot. Yeah, I have a wife and three kids.
671
00:51:42,615 --> 00:51:44,135
Guess I'm going home. Bye.
672
00:51:45,155 --> 00:51:49,935
That is literally what happens to a lot of autistics, a lot of neurodivergents
673
00:51:49,935 --> 00:51:54,135
who are at that developmental stage where they'll be going, you know what?
674
00:51:54,175 --> 00:51:55,635
I really want to go out drinking tonight.
675
00:51:56,455 --> 00:52:01,315
I'd love to just play the newest video game that just came out,
676
00:52:01,415 --> 00:52:05,815
the blah, blah, blah, the third, and really get into the new RPG.
677
00:52:05,815 --> 00:52:11,935
And then all of a sudden, they're like, oh, shoot, yeah, I have a job and a
678
00:52:11,935 --> 00:52:15,135
family and kids and I'm like 40 years old.
679
00:52:15,315 --> 00:52:20,195
I guess I can't play, you know, NHL 2024.
680
00:52:21,395 --> 00:52:27,715
So it's that discrepancy where oftentimes you're called back to this part of
681
00:52:27,715 --> 00:52:30,175
your life where you have to make a decision and you're like,
682
00:52:30,235 --> 00:52:34,555
okay, so your priority right now is very immature.
683
00:52:35,275 --> 00:52:38,315
So do you want that? Is that the life that you want?
684
00:52:38,555 --> 00:52:44,195
Or do you want the wife and the kids? And I've had adults, we've had that discussion multiple times.
685
00:52:44,935 --> 00:52:49,315
Absolutely. And it's hard, especially getting out of that mentality.
686
00:52:49,635 --> 00:52:53,275
And because, and I'll get into it in a later episode, because I never really
687
00:52:53,275 --> 00:52:57,635
had the knowledge that there was actually anything wrong with me.
688
00:52:57,735 --> 00:53:00,755
I thought I was just weird and normal and different.
689
00:53:02,175 --> 00:53:06,635
And this was perfectly okay for me to just constantly be playing.
690
00:53:06,695 --> 00:53:09,995
I'll tell one quick story related to that, and I think I might have already told it.
691
00:53:10,255 --> 00:53:15,175
But essentially, I was best friends with this guy from a band I used to watch,
692
00:53:15,315 --> 00:53:18,355
you know, shows on tv and movies and we
693
00:53:18,355 --> 00:53:21,235
used to have fun we used to go riding bikes and having water
694
00:53:21,235 --> 00:53:24,055
fights and playing video games and and doing
695
00:53:24,055 --> 00:53:27,215
all sorts of playing dungeons and dragon we used to have like a really great time
696
00:53:27,215 --> 00:53:30,175
and there was this this new
697
00:53:30,175 --> 00:53:33,035
video game uh that was the the fourth or
698
00:53:33,035 --> 00:53:35,975
the fifth edition to this other video game that we've been playing for years
699
00:53:35,975 --> 00:53:38,835
and years and years and years and years and one day
700
00:53:38,835 --> 00:53:41,955
i came to his house and i was all excited and i
701
00:53:41,955 --> 00:53:45,575
was like the fifth fifth game is coming out of the series and
702
00:53:45,575 --> 00:53:48,315
he was like i don't actually think that i want
703
00:53:48,315 --> 00:53:52,995
to play video games anymore i kind of you know want to get a job and and you
704
00:53:52,995 --> 00:53:59,875
know start dating and stuff and i was just like oh so why why do i still want
705
00:53:59,875 --> 00:54:03,675
to play video games and go riding bikes and have water fights and this this
706
00:54:03,675 --> 00:54:07,555
guy is actually still in my life he's a very lovely person we're friends now,
707
00:54:07,755 --> 00:54:12,355
he's a great guy, he also has a wife and kids,
708
00:54:12,715 --> 00:54:13,715
beautiful family.
709
00:54:14,619 --> 00:54:20,739
But he was my best friend, and it was really the first time in my life that
710
00:54:20,739 --> 00:54:25,719
I can recall where I actually asked myself, what's wrong with me?
711
00:54:25,859 --> 00:54:29,919
Why am I not where everyone else is? Because autistics often have that.
712
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:35,599
And if you also have that experience, I would love to hear your experience.
713
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:37,899
But essentially, everything is fine.
714
00:54:38,039 --> 00:54:40,539
You're on par with all of your friends. You're all doing the same thing.
715
00:54:40,539 --> 00:54:44,099
But then you hit a certain point where your fratties just keep moving further
716
00:54:44,099 --> 00:54:48,379
and further ahead and you're still sort of stuck there and going, what's going on?
717
00:54:48,479 --> 00:54:54,259
Like, why are all the people that I grew up with going on to other things and
718
00:54:54,259 --> 00:54:58,679
I'm still stuck in that one place in my life where I want to do fun things and,
719
00:54:58,739 --> 00:55:00,599
you know, younger things and kid things?
720
00:55:00,979 --> 00:55:04,099
Why don't I want to date? Why don't I want to get a job?
721
00:55:04,179 --> 00:55:08,819
Why don't I want to start focusing on university and careers?
722
00:55:08,819 --> 00:55:13,739
But the reality is you did want those things. You just didn't consistently want them.
723
00:55:13,839 --> 00:55:17,419
And you didn't necessarily know that you did, which led to some really cute
724
00:55:17,419 --> 00:55:21,019
stories, which maybe we can address while we're discussing the whole teen thing.
725
00:55:21,139 --> 00:55:25,879
Because I have some really cute memories of just bizarre and totally inappropriate,
726
00:55:26,179 --> 00:55:29,079
weird ways that you tried to show me that you cared about me,
727
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:30,239
but they're really adorable.
728
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:36,799
So this episode is going to be, or it is, extremely emotional and extremely heavy.
729
00:55:38,279 --> 00:55:42,339
And we're definitely going to have to put a disclaimer of some sort on it because
730
00:55:42,339 --> 00:55:43,939
we cover some really heavy topics.
731
00:55:43,939 --> 00:55:49,159
But the good news is that if you made it through the hour, at one minute and
732
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:54,419
counting, then your reward will be the second part of this episode,
733
00:55:54,619 --> 00:55:58,559
which will be only fun, happy, joyful,
734
00:55:58,859 --> 00:56:01,479
silly experiences.
735
00:56:01,519 --> 00:56:06,919
We'll tell some more stories about our childhood that were actually not heavy, whatever.
736
00:56:06,919 --> 00:56:09,839
Whatever well we'll also talk a lot about
737
00:56:09,839 --> 00:56:13,819
you know how teenagers often
738
00:56:13,819 --> 00:56:17,099
fall in love which is kind of a sweet topic and how we
739
00:56:17,099 --> 00:56:24,399
deal with with our emotions and how we we pursue relationships and the inevitable
740
00:56:24,399 --> 00:56:30,839
first breakup and and how someone who would cling so strongly to emotions and
741
00:56:30,839 --> 00:56:34,939
has such a hard time sometimes regulating them can, can deal with them.
742
00:56:35,199 --> 00:56:40,239
And if you happen to have autistic children and, and if you have autistic teenagers,
743
00:56:40,359 --> 00:56:45,439
maybe you've had similar experiences and you'll, you'll like experience to experience
744
00:56:45,439 --> 00:56:46,939
some of those in the future, so stay tuned.
745
00:56:47,865 --> 00:56:52,725
And we'll be back soon with another episode. Don't forget to listen,
746
00:56:52,885 --> 00:56:55,265
like, subscribe, share, review.
747
00:56:55,485 --> 00:56:57,805
All that stuff really helps us. Oh, yeah.
748
00:56:58,185 --> 00:57:04,265
Like Leah said, we have a Patreon where we will at some point.
749
00:57:04,945 --> 00:57:07,925
So if you didn't want to donate to the upkeep of the podcast,
750
00:57:08,345 --> 00:57:13,365
it's all going to allow us to continue to record better content and have a microphone
751
00:57:13,365 --> 00:57:16,785
that isn't less than ideal. deal.
752
00:57:17,085 --> 00:57:22,825
And if you go to our YouTube channel or Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
753
00:57:23,185 --> 00:57:28,685
Podchaser, iHeartRadio, if it streams podcasts, we're on it.
754
00:57:28,685 --> 00:57:30,925
Just search for Now You Know When Autistic.
755
00:57:30,965 --> 00:57:33,505
Hopefully, it will be one of the first videos that come up. Listen to it,
756
00:57:33,505 --> 00:57:36,785
like it, comment, dislike it. If you don't like it, tell us why.
757
00:57:37,585 --> 00:57:40,565
Eventually, we do want to do a Q&A
758
00:57:40,565 --> 00:57:44,705
episode where we answer listener questions and we
759
00:57:44,705 --> 00:57:47,645
move with like some cues so we can a at some
760
00:57:47,645 --> 00:57:52,785
point and what else i think that's about it share with your friends yeah have
761
00:57:52,785 --> 00:57:56,885
your friends view it and and hopefully we'll we'll uh we'll see you sometime
762
00:57:56,885 --> 00:58:02,545
to see you soon well that's our show for today now you know one autistic just
763
00:58:02,545 --> 00:58:06,345
a little bit better so something you may not know
764
00:58:06,645 --> 00:58:11,805
about some autistics is that we often struggle with ending social interactions
765
00:58:11,805 --> 00:58:19,745
so Leah all right Moshe I'll take care of it thank you for listening to now you know
766
00:58:19,745 --> 00:58:21,425
one autistic see you next week.
767
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:29,308
Music.
Version: 20241125