Now You Know One Autistic! Podcast
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Music.
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Hi, I'm Moshe, and I'm autistic. I'm Leah, and I'm boring.
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Welcome to Now You Know One Autistic, a podcast about neurodiversity in couples,
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marriage, meltdowns, and making it all work.
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The opinions expressed in this podcast reflect the experience of one couple and one autistic.
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Nothing that you hear in this podcast should be taken as a medical opinion,
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and unless otherwise stated, no one is an accredited specialist in any of the
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many fields that comprise the autism spectrum.
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But as someone who is on the autism spectrum, I feel that my experiences will
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be very valuable to many of you, whether you're on the spectrum,
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a support person like Leah, or just a curious bystander.
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If you think that you or someone you care about may be autistic,
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consult your family doctor.
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Music.
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Hi Moshe. Hi Leah. How are you today?
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Good, thanks. Awesome. So today we were doing some research about our further
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communication episodes and we actually decided that one of the topics we had
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thought was going to be a small thing turned out to be very dense.
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So we're going to to make it its own episode. This was meant to be episode three
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of Communicating About Communication, but we're feeling like we need to actually
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title it something because it's enough to stand alone.
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Yeah, it's actually a really exciting topic for both of us.
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It's something that we were really looking forward to getting into,
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but we really wanted to get through some of the initial stuff,
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the basic communication, some of the other topics we wanted to address.
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So this was actually an An episode that we had planned in some form or another,
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actually even before the podcast started,
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because it was based very strongly on us, as well as some of the things that we went through.
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Yeah, so what you guys are going to get today is actually the details. Yes.
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The sad, unfortunate, romantically beautiful, and scary, and I don't know,
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whatever else descriptive words you want to have with details.
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So, this is an episode that's going to be titled Love in the Spectrum.
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We are aware that there is a show called Love on the Spectrum,
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which some of you may have watched.
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There's the American version, and there's an Australian version.
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Out of curiosity, we've watched it. We have watched it.
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I'm not going to lie. And we have some thoughts in particular about one of the,
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I guess, contestants, because it was really, for me,
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because I was an adult-diagnosed autistic.
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Is that a word? Adult-diagnosed? Yeah. So because I was a late diagnosis. Yeah.
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Because I was a late diagnosis autistic, I ended up having to try and fill in
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a lot of gaps in my own life and find relevance.
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Because if you're diagnosed early and you can sort of grow up autistic,
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I mean, every autistic grows up autistic, you don't just kind of develop it
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at a later time, like a gray hair or whatever.
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But because I didn't have the chance, because I was denied, if you will,
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the opportunity to grow up autistic, I didn't actually understand why I did
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the things I did. I just did them.
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So looking back and accessing content of media and literature about autism,
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especially in younger people, really helped me to understand a lot of who I
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was and why I did the things I did.
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And because on this particular show, there were, I think all the people featured
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on the show are younger, not all of them, but a lot of them,
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most of them, in fact, are younger than I am.
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And because one of the things that I struggle with a lot is socializing in general
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and finding and being in healthy relationships in particular,
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not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't actually know how.
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And that's actually what we're going to get into a lot today.
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So we are going to discuss the show, but this episode is not solely about the
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show. It just plays into the overall theme.
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So I think that I should give you an idea about the inception of this idea,
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which was I take notes all the time.
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And underneath communication, I just had a footnote that said,
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when you just don't tell her.
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And as I started to think about it and I started to research it,
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it became just this enormous topic.
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That we thought deserved a lot of attention. So why did I write down,
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well, you just don't tell her?
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Let's summarize, and then let's go into the history and details of that.
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So the biggest question that I always had to think about,
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and that I spent basically my entire life, my entire life that I can remember
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thinking about when it comes to Leah, Leah is why I allow so many opportunities
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to let her know about how I felt for her.
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As you might have heard in our very first episode, Leah and I met when we were
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seven, and I knew to the extent that I suppose a seven-year-old can know that I was in love with her.
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And it's not uncommon for small children to declare that they're going to marry
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or they're They're in love with someone that they are friends with.
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But in my case, it was actually very true.
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And it's also not uncommon for that to change and not last, which is what everybody
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around us, maybe including ourselves, thought.
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And so we met when we were seven, pardon me.
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And we are now, to be fair, we're in our early 40s, and we've been together for a while, but not.
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As long as we would have liked. And it's not like we just kind of fell out of
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touch and didn't connect.
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We connected many times over the years, and somehow things just didn't click,
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in the way that we wanted them to.
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And I spent years, literal years, asking myself, why is she not understanding how I feel?
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And it turned out that it was because I never actually told her.
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And it seems so simple. It seems so basic. And for a neurotypical,
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potentially, because I mean, there's going to be different levels of social awareness and stuff.
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But the way it normally works is you have feelings for somebody.
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You either tell them or you don't tell them.
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Either you understand them or you don't understand them, or you are given the
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opportunity to be in a relationship with them or you're not.
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But in my case, it was much different than that because I spent many years of
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my life convinced that I was telling her every chance I got how I felt.
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And I wasn't doing it in the way that you would expect under the terms of the word tell,
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because I was telling her, but I was telling her by not using words that express that.
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So let's just give maybe a brief or it's not going to be so brief because it's
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a long history but let's talk about the actual events of what happened in our
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life and then let's sort of unpack why they went the way that they did.
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So as Moshe mentions we met when we were seven did you guys know that?
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Yes yeah first episode now you know one autistic and one Leah and you can check
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it out on all podcast streaming sites, as well as YouTube and on our homepage at Podbean.
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And we were very close, as we mentioned in the first episode as well.
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Best friends, different socioeconomic backgrounds, different circles,
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except for the fact that we would see each other all the time.
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And as you have friends, especially of the opposite gender, when you grow up
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or as you grow up and become a teenager, certain feelings tend to happen.
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It yes and those feelings it
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turns out happened for both of us but we
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continued to have sometimes not
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even so near misses we actually dated for a while and didn't even acknowledge
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that we were dating yes just to give you an idea of that and and how out of
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awareness i was i only found out that we were dating when when leah of a mind
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didn't read that we were dating i actually was
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under the impression that we'd never dated, not officially.
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It wasn't official because we never talked about it. Right. Well,
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we absolutely went on dates.
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Yes. The whole going to a museum, going to a movie, sitting across from each
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other and drinking the malted milkshakes, the whole thing.
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Like, it was really adorable when you think of it. It was. It was dating without
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like a label. It was label-less dating.
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It was like one of those cans that you find at the grocery store where the label
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fell And you're like, it's in the vegetable aisle, so it's probably vegetables,
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but it might not be. We were dating.
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We were doing dating activities. So we were probably dating,
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but we might not have been.
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Right. So the thing that for me made it feel like dating was how I felt about you.
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And I would just look at you and I would wonder, why is he so dumb?
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Other boys in my life were assertive about how they were feeling.
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And I was assertive about telling them I didn't want any of them.
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And I was just kind of waiting for him to do the thing so I could be like,
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yeah, let's date or kiss me or something.
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And those things just never happened. We're talking about, we're about what,
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14, 15? It was about early teens.
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That's generally the most common time that these sorts of feelings start happening.
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Obviously, the concept of no longer playing in mixed gender groups happens a lot earlier.
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But when you get to be 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, that's when these sorts of feelings start happening.
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Because even though, whether or not you're neurodivergent or nanotechnical or
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whatever, your development in your mind and your emotions and your concept of
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self might be delayed to a certain extent.
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But your brain and your hormones know exactly what age you are.
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And they kick in as you would expect them to at that time.
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Yes. So I think I can't summarize that era of tying much more other than to
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say that we both had feelings, all the feelings you would expect,
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wink, wink, at that time.
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And nothing really ever came of it because we were both, I mean,
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I don't think he was shy. I think he was clueless, but I was shy.
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I was very clueless because I knew exactly how I felt And I was certainly not
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shy to share my feelings inappropriately with other people, those kinds of feelings
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and others, but never with her.
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And we had a lot of discussions about that.
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And it turned out that I actually was expressing myself to her.
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She just wasn't listening to me. And that was...
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Because I had sort of routined her into just someone that was very close to
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me and very important to me and very internalized to me.
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And it was very hard for me to, I guess you could say, break the mold.
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Yes. Changing that kind of relationship is very difficult.
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But around that time, you know, teens and more olds, we both very desperately
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wanted to, but we just never understood. For sure.
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So then came, I mean, I think maybe around the time I gave up was when I got
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the courage to ask you to my school dance.
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Now we danced and really close and everything.
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It's very nice. It was very nice to have been invited.
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But I lacked an awareness about how these things were supposed to go.
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So, because very much at that time, and still sometimes presently,
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I needed a lot of prompting.
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And my own family had ingrained in me the concept that relationships were not
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necessarily, you know, serious for me.
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My, you know, family would talk a lot about me having girlfriends and,
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you know, do you have any crushes?
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And of course, they'd go, ooh, you like this person. And it was very awkward
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for me because it's sad to say, I didn't know what liking a person entailed.
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I didn't know what being in a relationship with someone entailed.
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I didn't know how to get to the level of being in a relationship.
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Most of my relationships at that point, regardless of what they were,
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were basically, I was existing in their space and things happened differently.
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Mostly by accident rather than on purpose. So it was like basically for me standing
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at the edge of a, of a, of a chasm of a canyon and looking across at Leah and
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going, gosh, I'd really like to be there.
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Yes, because I was one who was always very proper. Right.
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So if somebody, for example, was sitting with you in your room and they did,
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you know, stuff to you, you would do it, but I would never do that because I
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was always very proper that way.
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And the understanding that I had, completely by accident, actually,
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was that any affection that you gave me was done in a very silly way.
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Like, there were certain occasions where my sister dared you to kiss me,
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and then you kissed me, and then ran away laughing.
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So I got the impression, well, this is how she sees me.
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She sees me like I'm just a, you know, silly boy that you can do stuff to and then run away.
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Way so obviously she doesn't actually consider me to
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be a serious person in a relationship and i
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don't really know what our relationship even involves but i'm
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pretty sure that it shouldn't involve you know
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kissing and then running away laughing yeah but in
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reality is you know a lot of people as well it was
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a very normal developmental stage oh boy
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cute kiss because i had
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a hard time reading with signals and nuances and you
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basically had to shout in my face what you
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wanted i might have gotten it i might not have gotten
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it on my own most of the time i wouldn't because i
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was very socially inept at that point i just did so at that point i'm not gonna
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lie i i knew that moshe had feelings for me because occasionally he would just
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look up from his whatever if he was doing and his i i hate to use it but a lot
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of people use it from his own little world that she was in.
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And he'd look at me and she would just say, oh, you're so pretty.
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And then I would go, yeah, and, and, and then I would be, no. Right.
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But that was my love language. My love language was compliments.
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So I was like, I know you like me, but what are you going to do with it?
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As you would say, put verbs in your sentence.
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Yes. But I figured, wrongly, as it turns out, and this is a lesson to all other
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neurodivergents who are looking to add your relationship, chips,
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regardless of what age you might be at, that simply providing them feedback is not enough.
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You can't sit around waiting for people to clue in to something that you're
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not actually telling them.
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And you could easily say, well, she wasn't not saying that she wanted to be
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with me, but she was also not saying that she was.
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And here I was, in my own mind, being clear about my intentions,
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I wanted to touch her a lot, not that way necessarily, but I wanted to, to hug her.
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I wanted to tell her how pretty she was. I kept looking at her.
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I, I would do things for her, like how much more obvious than I would be that I had feelings.
224
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It turns out quite obvious because I never actually said I have feelings.
225
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I caught that you had feelings. For me, the what are you going to do about it
226
00:16:41,867 --> 00:16:43,867
thing was the unclear part. Right.
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00:16:44,787 --> 00:16:52,427
So a little bit later on, it wasn't much further on, which is a really sad part of our story.
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Some bad things happened in Moshe's life, and he decided to move across the
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country to be with his father.
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And that to this day is
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kind of a painful thing for both of us because he actually
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took the time and those of you who
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maybe know an autistic or two might know
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that that's significant he actually took the time to take me on a walk and tell
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me and i didn't really want him to go and he was waiting for you to say don't
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go let's be together absolutely but i didn't because i said well you're are
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clearly unhappy and this is what's best for you. So you should go.
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It was a very difficult time for me. And I mean, I don't mind getting into the details of it.
239
00:17:35,487 --> 00:17:40,647
That will take too much time. Yes. But I'll kind of summarize a little bit.
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I had recently ended a very toxic friendship that I have with someone and I
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wanted potentially more.
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The jury's still out whether I wanted to be with them or whether I wanted to be like them.
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It was also the year my grandfather died. He had been sick for a very long time
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and my grandfather had died and my, my father had,
245
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my father and mother had gotten separated or divorced when I was only four,
246
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which is how they ended up meeting, which are two of our mom groups.
247
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And I'd always had a very difficult relationship with my father.
248
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I'm not going to get into it because, again, it's very long,
249
00:18:21,369 --> 00:18:26,349
very detailed, and also it's perhaps not even that fair, although I'm happy
250
00:18:26,349 --> 00:18:27,289
to talk about it privately.
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But there was always like chance meetings between him and I.
252
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And so this was like the first big move, like, I have the space for you.
253
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You're going to have a dajra.
254
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You have this life waiting for you.
255
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And if you would like to, we would like to have you come live with us.
256
00:18:46,629 --> 00:18:52,709
And I didn't really see an alternative at that point.
257
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In hindsight, it was one of the worst decisions I ever made because that year
258
00:18:57,549 --> 00:19:04,389
was a terrible year for me and I ended up shortly thereafter returning to Montreal,
259
00:19:04,449 --> 00:19:06,289
a complete emotional wreck.
260
00:19:06,569 --> 00:19:09,069
Yes, so let's fast forward to that. Sure.
261
00:19:09,769 --> 00:19:15,549
Maybe a year later, I want to say. I haven't seen you talk to William and Brittany or anything.
262
00:19:15,829 --> 00:19:20,029
Right. About a year later, I had sort of not given up on him.
263
00:19:20,069 --> 00:19:21,149
I always remembered him.
264
00:19:21,249 --> 00:19:27,969
I was deeply in love with him, but I didn't actually know that because I was young myself.
265
00:19:28,569 --> 00:19:31,649
I always thought of him, talked about him and stuff, but I had sort of given
266
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up on him ever being there.
267
00:19:33,329 --> 00:19:38,469
So I graduated high school, and I moved on with my life, and I made new friends,
268
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and I made a relationship happen.
269
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I went back to school because I hadn't finished all of the courses I needed
270
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to get into the college course that I wanted.
271
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So I went to, it was called the High School of Montreal at the time.
272
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It's for people who want to do sort of the higher level high school stuff before
273
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they can get into college of their choice.
274
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And there during registration lo
275
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and behold there he was yes and i
276
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just i couldn't believe that he was
277
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standing in front of me and it was the same old awkward thing like hey hey how
278
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you been doing buddy old friend old pal anyway math class i guess and and he
279
00:20:23,109 --> 00:20:26,989
didn't do much to stop that reaction Yeah, it was.
280
00:20:26,989 --> 00:20:30,429
I was there for the purposes of high school finishing.
281
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I had been unable to complete high school across the country due to the same
282
00:20:37,629 --> 00:20:42,509
issues that led me to be kind of forcibly returned to Montreal.
283
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:45,969
And seeing Leah there was amazing.
284
00:20:46,826 --> 00:20:52,666
It was a very difficult thing for me because on one hand, I deeply regretted
285
00:20:52,666 --> 00:20:57,226
leaving in the first place, not so much the city because I always hated Montreal,
286
00:20:57,426 --> 00:21:03,226
but seeing like, but leaving her, I had had a lot of very bad experiences and
287
00:21:03,226 --> 00:21:07,246
she was my rock and I felt a lot of shame.
288
00:21:07,586 --> 00:21:13,726
Like I didn't deserve to see her like, like this was my punishment for forever
289
00:21:13,726 --> 00:21:14,986
leaving in the first place.
290
00:21:14,986 --> 00:21:22,886
And I was still very much unable to fully express my feelings,
291
00:21:23,106 --> 00:21:29,006
but I knew, I always knew, but I knew at that time that I was very deeply in
292
00:21:29,006 --> 00:21:33,586
love with her, but that I had probably missed my chance.
293
00:21:33,846 --> 00:21:38,206
But I still liked to see her. I still liked to spend time with her.
294
00:21:38,806 --> 00:21:41,226
So what happened was I did go
295
00:21:41,226 --> 00:21:45,386
to math class and he wasn't in my math class because he had gone that far.
296
00:21:45,426 --> 00:21:49,026
I don't know that you've ever gone that far in math or more of an art and history guy.
297
00:21:49,306 --> 00:21:55,346
Yeah. After I left class, he was outside waiting for me, which I knew.
298
00:21:55,446 --> 00:21:58,006
But then he claimed he wasn't waiting for me, which was frustrating.
299
00:21:58,626 --> 00:22:03,326
I totally was. I know. I just didn't want to seem like desperate or whatever.
300
00:22:03,626 --> 00:22:07,766
And ultimately, the conversation went, you know, this is what's been happening.
301
00:22:07,766 --> 00:22:10,206
In my life. This is what's been happening in my life.
302
00:22:10,986 --> 00:22:14,266
And I said, I have to go home.
303
00:22:14,486 --> 00:22:17,246
And he said, would you like to go out for a coffee? And I said,
304
00:22:17,286 --> 00:22:19,446
I can't right now because I have to go home.
305
00:22:19,706 --> 00:22:24,686
And what he heard was, no, no, never. You loser. I don't want to see you ever again.
306
00:22:25,306 --> 00:22:31,606
And that was a very tragic and sad thing because that was the last time we saw
307
00:22:31,606 --> 00:22:36,006
each other for Yeah, I took my shot in my mind.
308
00:22:36,086 --> 00:22:39,806
And I, as an autistic person,
309
00:22:39,986 --> 00:22:43,246
even though I wasn't diagnosed anywhere close to that point,
310
00:22:43,346 --> 00:22:51,546
I always struggle with formulating my thoughts into, you know, words that make sense.
311
00:22:52,026 --> 00:23:00,706
And I knew that this was my shot, and if I were to express myself, I had to do it then.
312
00:23:01,626 --> 00:23:07,006
And what I came up with was, well, I'll ask her for coffee, and based on what
313
00:23:07,006 --> 00:23:09,246
she says, I'll know how she feels.
314
00:23:09,426 --> 00:23:11,546
And what I got was...
315
00:23:12,806 --> 00:23:21,186
No, because it was, it was something that I had really worked myself up towards.
316
00:23:22,306 --> 00:23:25,826
And the, the reality was that was my shot.
317
00:23:26,326 --> 00:23:31,246
And she, by not dropping everything and running to my side and saying,
318
00:23:31,306 --> 00:23:34,066
of course, I'll go for coffee with you. I love you.
319
00:23:34,166 --> 00:23:37,546
And then music plays in the background and with it happily ever after.
320
00:23:37,746 --> 00:23:40,626
It was very much, it was very much a no. No.
321
00:23:40,926 --> 00:23:47,826
And I didn't really spend much time processing anything after, like, I can't.
322
00:23:48,026 --> 00:23:51,366
And that's exactly where it was left for me.
323
00:23:51,506 --> 00:23:59,406
So, I, you know, stubbornly neurotypically didn't play my role in that unspoken romance story.
324
00:23:59,746 --> 00:24:02,886
So, we're going to fast forward again. This is a difficult one.
325
00:24:03,086 --> 00:24:07,346
It involves a lot of people. We're not going to name any names or give any details
326
00:24:07,346 --> 00:24:13,546
because it actually involves other people being involved and hurt.
327
00:24:14,426 --> 00:24:19,726
We're going to fast forward now seven years? Seven or eight years. Seven or eight years.
328
00:24:20,286 --> 00:24:25,966
I am engaged to this relationship that I mentioned happened when I was 16.
329
00:24:26,466 --> 00:24:32,646
He is married to somebody else with a baby out there on the way.
330
00:24:32,646 --> 00:24:36,366
And his mother was maintaining sort
331
00:24:36,366 --> 00:24:39,366
of a friendship with my mother has decided that she
332
00:24:39,366 --> 00:24:42,066
doesn't like his life situation and she doesn't like
333
00:24:42,066 --> 00:24:47,986
his wife and that i would be a fantastic carrot on a stick to change that yes
334
00:24:47,986 --> 00:24:57,526
i was i was married because it was be careful i was married because it seemed
335
00:24:57,526 --> 00:25:00,666
like the right thing to do given my current life circumstances
336
00:25:00,986 --> 00:25:04,906
and I'm not going to give
337
00:25:04,906 --> 00:25:07,826
details because that person is still
338
00:25:07,826 --> 00:25:11,386
as far as I know around and I
339
00:25:11,386 --> 00:25:16,786
had a role to play and it's not always you know a pleasant role on my part either
340
00:25:16,786 --> 00:25:28,626
but the reality was I was very lonely and I had been trying to form relationships
341
00:25:28,886 --> 00:25:35,686
and i felt that as long as i ended up with somebody that eventually.
342
00:25:36,546 --> 00:25:39,326
Leah and i would be together i didn't know
343
00:25:39,326 --> 00:25:45,826
when and i didn't know how but something in my mind told me that if i just found
344
00:25:45,826 --> 00:25:54,526
a distraction and took my time that eventually it would all work And it didn't
345
00:25:54,526 --> 00:25:58,826
because as much as I had a plan in my mind,
346
00:25:58,886 --> 00:26:02,726
it didn't quite work out because it involved other people.
347
00:26:02,806 --> 00:26:05,646
And one of the things that you will hear is,
348
00:26:06,316 --> 00:26:09,816
about autistics is that unfortunately
349
00:26:09,816 --> 00:26:12,576
and on no exception to this they can be very
350
00:26:12,576 --> 00:26:15,416
selfish and i was only thinking about
351
00:26:15,416 --> 00:26:18,376
myself and i was only thinking about my circumstances and i
352
00:26:18,376 --> 00:26:21,756
was only thinking about what i wanted
353
00:26:21,756 --> 00:26:29,336
and in doing so i involved a lot of people that really had no business being
354
00:26:29,336 --> 00:26:35,616
involved in what was basically just me trying to placate myself in preparation
355
00:26:35,616 --> 00:26:41,156
integration for a time in determining in the future when I could be with Leah. So very differently.
356
00:26:41,736 --> 00:26:47,036
I went into my, you want to call it secondary relationship, which was my primary marriage.
357
00:26:47,176 --> 00:26:50,776
I don't know how it's, it's not a person, but the best of intentions,
358
00:26:50,976 --> 00:26:56,616
you know, I wasn't as romantically enamored with them as I was with Moshe,
359
00:26:56,696 --> 00:26:59,296
but they were a really good friend and we had a good time together.
360
00:26:59,996 --> 00:27:02,776
They were, I don't know, good enough to To build a life with?
361
00:27:02,876 --> 00:27:06,576
Because I don't know if he would ever come around, especially when he married
362
00:27:06,576 --> 00:27:09,256
someone else and had children. I went, okay, well, I guess that's it.
363
00:27:09,716 --> 00:27:12,516
Maybe we'll be together, you know, when our spouse is dying,
364
00:27:12,536 --> 00:27:16,376
we're 80 and the old folks home. But that was kind of where my head was at.
365
00:27:17,398 --> 00:27:22,738
So, this time happened, and it sort of revolved around his sister's wedding.
366
00:27:23,178 --> 00:27:29,778
That was the premise or the guise that our moms had for getting us to see each other, I think.
367
00:27:30,178 --> 00:27:33,858
Because otherwise, I hadn't been in touch with my sister that much,
368
00:27:33,978 --> 00:27:38,058
so there was no other reason for them to invite us to. Yeah.
369
00:27:39,358 --> 00:27:43,918
And I, what year was that? 2006.
370
00:28:13,798 --> 00:28:17,018
That was 2006. I had basically decided about a minute or two after I met them
371
00:28:17,018 --> 00:28:22,478
that I didn't actually want to be with them, and I didn't really know how to do anything about that.
372
00:28:22,758 --> 00:28:32,198
So when 2006 happened, I was basically trying to find a way out.
373
00:28:32,658 --> 00:28:40,678
So it led to us seeing each other and, of course, everybody in the situation, including my spouse.
374
00:28:40,678 --> 00:28:45,698
I don't think his spouse really understood, my spouse did, that the second we
375
00:28:45,698 --> 00:28:50,918
shot each other, there was going to be just fireworks and issues for everybody.
376
00:28:51,158 --> 00:28:52,558
And that's exactly what happened.
377
00:28:53,058 --> 00:28:57,518
Shortly thereafter, he decided to move back to Montreal where I was,
378
00:28:57,538 --> 00:28:58,918
but bring his entire family.
379
00:28:59,478 --> 00:29:03,218
Again, under the guise of, I don't know, a better job or a better life or something.
380
00:29:03,778 --> 00:29:06,618
Which, of course, myself and my spouse who...
381
00:29:07,433 --> 00:29:13,193
Infinite litigation helped us get them an apartment being set up and everything.
382
00:29:13,453 --> 00:29:17,333
And we were good. We were really good for a really, really long time.
383
00:29:17,733 --> 00:29:23,353
We resisted the urge to be romantic for a very, very long time and kept things just friendly.
384
00:29:24,093 --> 00:29:28,353
And then some things, I don't want to get into the details of it,
385
00:29:28,353 --> 00:29:31,973
but some things changed that led to a discussion. Yes, Shane.
386
00:29:32,413 --> 00:29:36,273
The first one, actually, of its kind that we'd had that was completely honest,
387
00:29:36,533 --> 00:29:39,433
where he asked me how I really felt, and I told him.
388
00:29:39,873 --> 00:29:45,773
And then problems happen. Right. There was some really bad behavior on everybody's
389
00:29:45,773 --> 00:29:49,713
part, which led to some really hurt feelings.
390
00:29:50,513 --> 00:29:53,973
And ultimately, me saying, this is not correct.
391
00:29:54,253 --> 00:29:59,373
You have a family, and I can't be responsible for this, and sort of ending things.
392
00:29:59,373 --> 00:30:02,453
It was a very difficult time for both of us.
393
00:30:02,793 --> 00:30:10,193
And I just want to say for the record that I acknowledge now that infidelity
394
00:30:10,193 --> 00:30:14,893
in relationships is unacceptable in the best of circumstances.
395
00:30:14,893 --> 00:30:17,693
And when you had someone like me,
396
00:30:17,853 --> 00:30:22,493
who at the time didn't actually think that I was doing anything wrong,
397
00:30:22,633 --> 00:30:28,033
because I hadn't formed the kind of feelings that you would normally have seen
398
00:30:28,033 --> 00:30:30,153
when you're in a relationship.
399
00:30:30,653 --> 00:30:36,153
So it was on me to apply the brakes. And of course, he took that again as an
400
00:30:36,153 --> 00:30:37,893
absolute rejection. Mm-hmm.
401
00:30:38,653 --> 00:30:48,173
I took that as a rejection, and subsequently, we left Montreal and moved around a bit.
402
00:30:48,413 --> 00:30:51,893
For the record, this is not the first time either of our spouses are hearing
403
00:30:51,893 --> 00:30:55,533
about this, just in case they actually are listening and feel bad for them.
404
00:30:55,613 --> 00:30:58,473
I believe we both confessed everything then. then
405
00:30:58,473 --> 00:31:02,333
yes so the as i said
406
00:31:02,333 --> 00:31:05,073
essentially when we left famous in
407
00:31:05,073 --> 00:31:07,973
montreal both of our spouses at the time were
408
00:31:07,973 --> 00:31:12,613
aware of what had happened so it wasn't like like as a role this is like the
409
00:31:12,613 --> 00:31:17,753
first time they're hearing yes and again over the course of the past few years
410
00:31:17,753 --> 00:31:23,593
we have to the best of our own abilities that would be good to make amends for
411
00:31:23,593 --> 00:31:26,353
the actions that we that we did and the roles that we played,
412
00:31:26,473 --> 00:31:33,053
and neither of our actions were very positive, and it's definitely something
413
00:31:33,053 --> 00:31:35,793
that we're not particularly proud of.
414
00:31:35,993 --> 00:31:46,513
That having been said, it was an opportunity for both of us to reflect on our
415
00:31:46,513 --> 00:31:50,113
own relationships and decide where to go from there.
416
00:31:50,113 --> 00:31:53,173
And at least in my case
417
00:31:53,173 --> 00:32:00,573
where i went was to the dog house which honestly is is where i deserve to be
418
00:32:00,573 --> 00:32:06,253
at that time because it was completely unfair and unreasonable for me to act
419
00:32:06,253 --> 00:32:13,153
in the way that i did and i really should have had the presence of mind to end things.
420
00:32:14,437 --> 00:32:18,557
Or not even start things before that. And that was the premise of my supposed rejection.
421
00:32:18,997 --> 00:32:22,617
What I actually was saying to him was, you need to end things and get your head
422
00:32:22,617 --> 00:32:25,897
straight before we even consider this. And he burned out. Right.
423
00:32:26,837 --> 00:32:32,237
Because I'll freely admit that, as you can hear at the end of each of our episodes,
424
00:32:32,797 --> 00:32:35,637
autistics often have a hard time ending interaction.
425
00:32:35,637 --> 00:32:38,857
Action and if you take that
426
00:32:38,857 --> 00:32:42,217
and then we multiply it by like a
427
00:32:42,217 --> 00:32:45,177
thousand and you can possibly see how
428
00:32:45,177 --> 00:32:50,657
difficult it was for me to end a marriage i want everybody to keep in mind that
429
00:32:50,657 --> 00:32:54,877
neither of us knew that moshe was autistic at this so it's not like i i was
430
00:32:54,877 --> 00:32:58,877
currently under if i had the understanding that i was autistic so i thought
431
00:32:58,877 --> 00:33:03,217
it was just this normal man bizarre behavior behavior, bad behavior.
432
00:33:03,557 --> 00:33:06,637
So this happened in 2006.
433
00:33:07,217 --> 00:33:14,917
My then wife at the time and I fully separated seven years later in 2013.
434
00:33:15,357 --> 00:33:20,977
So that was seven years of us essentially playing chicken with each other and
435
00:33:20,977 --> 00:33:28,017
trying to provide the other reasons to leave so that that didn't have to be the bad way.
436
00:33:28,617 --> 00:33:33,457
So while you were in the doghouse, where I got sent to was directly to the altar.
437
00:33:33,777 --> 00:33:39,277
Because despite all that had happened, my partner actually still wanted to be
438
00:33:39,277 --> 00:33:42,317
with me enough that they wanted to lock me down.
439
00:33:43,037 --> 00:33:47,737
So I got the, I'll forgive you, but we're getting married right away talk.
440
00:33:47,877 --> 00:33:48,677
And that's what happened.
441
00:33:49,857 --> 00:33:56,337
And I heard about it because, and again, it doesn't look very good for either
442
00:33:56,337 --> 00:33:57,777
of us in a very positive light.
443
00:33:58,017 --> 00:34:08,057
But my wife at the time felt that the best way for me to get over Leah was to
444
00:34:08,057 --> 00:34:14,077
be reminded constantly that she disliked me by making up allegations of things that I had done to her,
445
00:34:14,177 --> 00:34:16,637
which I absolutely did not do. you.
446
00:34:16,657 --> 00:34:21,437
And she had no idea that it was even being told to me.
447
00:34:21,897 --> 00:34:29,977
And it was a way of just breaking me down to a point where I realized that this
448
00:34:29,977 --> 00:34:34,157
is where I was, this is where I needed to stand.
449
00:34:34,557 --> 00:34:37,917
Because when it came to it, she rejected me.
450
00:34:38,457 --> 00:34:45,417
My wife at the time was my only person who stuck by me when she absolutely shouldn't
451
00:34:45,417 --> 00:34:49,837
have, and she absolutely had no business doing, and I'll firmly admit that.
452
00:34:50,197 --> 00:34:53,917
And it was through her own efforts,
453
00:34:54,117 --> 00:35:01,097
through her own Herculean, saintly efforts, that she even could deign herself
454
00:35:01,097 --> 00:35:06,777
to look at me after what I do, which is unreasonable, but I'll admit it.
455
00:35:08,514 --> 00:35:12,914
A lot of this was helped in 2011 when my mother died.
456
00:35:13,834 --> 00:35:17,574
And if you look at our website, if you go to the bottom on the Podbean website,
457
00:35:17,894 --> 00:35:24,234
you'll see a picture of Leah and I and my mother and half of my sister's face.
458
00:35:25,754 --> 00:35:33,294
And my mother was a very important person in my life and in Leah's life.
459
00:35:33,294 --> 00:35:38,774
And she was one of the only people, besides her own mother, of course,
460
00:35:38,934 --> 00:35:40,334
that we shared in a comment.
461
00:35:40,654 --> 00:35:49,114
And when my mother died in 2011, it was an opportunity for her to remind me
462
00:35:49,114 --> 00:35:53,814
that despite our shared history, Leah didn't even bother to contact me.
463
00:35:53,874 --> 00:35:59,374
That having been said, she was actually told not to contact me. Right.
464
00:35:59,434 --> 00:36:04,274
So, again, nobody can blame this person for what they did because they were
465
00:36:04,274 --> 00:36:08,354
just trying to salvage what they had left of their life.
466
00:36:08,634 --> 00:36:12,314
But they took it upon themselves to contact me about the death,
467
00:36:12,474 --> 00:36:16,914
therefore blocking any reason that I may have to contact him.
468
00:36:17,294 --> 00:36:20,174
And, you know, at the time, I figured it was fair.
469
00:36:20,534 --> 00:36:26,174
I don't know. So that's, I mean, that was just a nail in the coffin for him
470
00:36:26,174 --> 00:36:28,594
about how she doesn't care about me.
471
00:36:28,694 --> 00:36:32,634
And for me, it was just, you know, is he all right? Okay, I guess I'll move
472
00:36:32,634 --> 00:36:36,614
on. Because it was awkward enough talking to his wife, truthfully.
473
00:36:37,054 --> 00:36:39,594
It was a very difficult time for me.
474
00:36:40,787 --> 00:36:48,267
But it was even more difficult the next year, which, I mean, Leah can get into.
475
00:36:48,507 --> 00:36:50,567
Because that was the year that Raya was born.
476
00:36:50,947 --> 00:36:58,887
Right. So, fast forwarding. Yes. Mom passed in September of 2011.
477
00:36:59,387 --> 00:37:02,787
My mom, not hers. Her mom is alive. My mom is alive, thank God.
478
00:37:02,827 --> 00:37:05,727
Not necessarily doing well right now, but we can talk about that.
479
00:37:06,467 --> 00:37:13,687
And I became pregnant with Raya in November with my then-spouse.
480
00:37:14,807 --> 00:37:22,407
And unbeknownst to me, again, in an effort to continually remind Moshe Ha'at, I hated him,
481
00:37:23,147 --> 00:37:29,827
his spouse was showing him all the photos of my pregnancy and how happy I was
482
00:37:29,827 --> 00:37:35,547
with my husband and the birth and this beautiful new baby and saying some things
483
00:37:35,547 --> 00:37:39,127
that weren't very nice to them. Not about me, but to him.
484
00:37:40,547 --> 00:37:45,807
And I didn't actually know. I just, my first baby with, you know,
485
00:37:45,807 --> 00:37:51,327
somebody who I didn't, again, particularly feel supported by or crazy in love with.
486
00:37:51,367 --> 00:37:54,107
However, there were really good sign-in bites.
487
00:37:55,127 --> 00:38:01,647
And to be fair to them, And this may have been done at the time as a way of
488
00:38:01,647 --> 00:38:07,667
reminding me that I was, you know, I guess we use the word pining for someone
489
00:38:07,667 --> 00:38:09,207
who had clearly moved on,
490
00:38:09,347 --> 00:38:17,467
given all the happy Facebook photos and the new baby and, you know, her wonderful husband.
491
00:38:17,567 --> 00:38:22,447
And like, why are you still thinking about this person when they're clearly
492
00:38:22,447 --> 00:38:23,767
not even thinking about you?
493
00:38:23,767 --> 00:38:29,927
And in fact, what it did is remind me about how unhappy I was,
494
00:38:30,107 --> 00:38:35,587
and it further divided us because it was...
495
00:38:37,294 --> 00:38:44,994
Shortly after Raya was born, I found it within myself to decide that I was no
496
00:38:44,994 --> 00:38:46,694
longer going to stay with this person.
497
00:38:47,034 --> 00:38:51,474
The circumstances that led to that are not necessarily so favorable for me either.
498
00:38:52,394 --> 00:38:59,614
But to make another long story short, I had begun another relationship at that point.
499
00:38:59,614 --> 00:39:04,194
And rather than make the same mistakes that I had made with Leah,
500
00:39:04,354 --> 00:39:09,214
I had decided to be honest about it.
501
00:39:09,874 --> 00:39:17,274
And my wife at the time finally left. We didn't actually legally get divorced for another two years.
502
00:39:17,754 --> 00:39:23,094
And we tried to maintain the relationship for the sake of our daughter to the
503
00:39:23,094 --> 00:39:24,914
extent that it was possible.
504
00:39:25,154 --> 00:39:31,394
But my marriage at that point was over. over, and now I could freely begin to
505
00:39:31,394 --> 00:39:36,714
plan my next move in trying to win back Leah.
506
00:39:36,914 --> 00:39:44,054
Right. So he moves like a turtle, because we're going to fast forward another eight years.
507
00:39:44,454 --> 00:39:47,514
Yes. I now have a second child with
508
00:39:47,514 --> 00:39:51,674
this person, and we've settled into a comfortable enough life together.
509
00:39:51,894 --> 00:39:57,474
We have all the things we need and we have friends and the children are in school
510
00:39:57,474 --> 00:40:01,194
and we've settled into a routine. And then the pandemic happens.
511
00:40:01,954 --> 00:40:10,414
During the pandemic, my spouse made a decision or revealed something that was already there.
512
00:40:10,614 --> 00:40:16,614
I can't really tell you what, and I'm not going to get into it because I actually
513
00:40:16,614 --> 00:40:18,694
feel that I need to talk to them before we can.
514
00:40:18,754 --> 00:40:22,334
Maybe that can be a future episode. Maybe they can even call on. We'll see.
515
00:40:23,503 --> 00:40:27,443
That changed everybody's life and everything.
516
00:40:28,043 --> 00:40:31,943
And I tried to hang on, I really did, because being a child of divorce,
517
00:40:32,043 --> 00:40:34,003
you don't want to put your own children through that.
518
00:40:34,523 --> 00:40:40,023
But it was about a year into, you know, me trying to hold on through these changes
519
00:40:40,023 --> 00:40:48,663
that I became so depressed and so upset that I just sort of felt like I couldn't go on.
520
00:40:48,743 --> 00:40:54,383
And the first person to come to mind that was going to rescue me was Moshe.
521
00:40:55,063 --> 00:41:00,043
So in the end, as it was always going to be, it was me who reached out.
522
00:41:00,503 --> 00:41:02,443
And I reached out with the funniest
523
00:41:02,443 --> 00:41:06,883
of questions and with no intentions necessarily. I just wanted to know.
524
00:41:07,263 --> 00:41:12,903
And what I asked him was, hey, remember that time in 1998 when you saw me at
525
00:41:12,903 --> 00:41:13,823
the High School of Montreal?
526
00:41:14,583 --> 00:41:18,383
If we'd gone out for coffee, would we have ended up together?
527
00:41:18,383 --> 00:41:21,343
Brother part one of the question and part two
528
00:41:21,343 --> 00:41:24,503
of the question is have you ever found happiness
529
00:41:24,503 --> 00:41:27,783
because i don't think i'm happy without you and then
530
00:41:27,783 --> 00:41:30,703
stuff and then our life
531
00:41:30,703 --> 00:41:33,743
actually because in an
532
00:41:33,743 --> 00:41:37,903
incredibly selfish self-interested and
533
00:41:37,903 --> 00:41:41,103
ignorant way i had literally been
534
00:41:41,103 --> 00:41:44,103
waiting for a sign from Leah that she was ready for
535
00:41:44,103 --> 00:41:47,163
me and this was my sign and I said okay so now
536
00:41:47,163 --> 00:41:49,943
we are going to be together this is going
537
00:41:49,943 --> 00:41:55,423
to be our happy ending and this is the moment that I've spent at least you know
538
00:41:55,423 --> 00:42:02,243
the last what is like 14 years waiting for this this is it like this is this
539
00:42:02,243 --> 00:42:08,163
is the moment this is our fairy tale ending and and much like the the coyote
540
00:42:08,163 --> 00:42:09,923
that finally catches the Roadrunner,
541
00:42:10,043 --> 00:42:14,103
I hadn't actually thought any further ahead than that.
542
00:42:14,303 --> 00:42:16,003
I was like, okay, I got her.
543
00:42:16,923 --> 00:42:20,483
So now I got nothing.
544
00:42:20,683 --> 00:42:24,923
So we had to basically, I had to figure out what to do now. Right.
545
00:42:25,283 --> 00:42:29,203
So ultimately in a lot of ways, it was a beautiful happy ending.
546
00:42:29,383 --> 00:42:34,823
We talked for a long time and then I sort of consciously uncoupled from my spouse
547
00:42:34,823 --> 00:42:38,703
at that time because we were still living across the country and gone back to
548
00:42:38,703 --> 00:42:43,743
in British Columbia for no discernible reason. But anyway, that's where he was. So much of an idea.
549
00:42:43,963 --> 00:42:48,023
And I had more freedom and resources than he did at the time. So I went to see him.
550
00:42:48,403 --> 00:42:51,983
And to him, that was, that's it, we're married now. To me, it was like,
551
00:42:52,063 --> 00:42:53,543
okay, well, I'm going to see where this goes.
552
00:42:53,623 --> 00:42:57,883
And where it went was we were very clearly in love and this was going to be a thing.
553
00:42:58,623 --> 00:43:05,423
And I started to slowly move myself and my children and my life to British Columbia after that.
554
00:43:05,923 --> 00:43:10,083
And you'll hear a lot about the struggles we've had as we go along in the podcast,
555
00:43:10,403 --> 00:43:14,283
but it was in a lot of ways a very beautiful happy ending, but also a very difficult ending.
556
00:43:15,275 --> 00:43:19,755
Interesting beginning. When you've spent your entire life essentially waiting
557
00:43:19,755 --> 00:43:25,415
for a moment that someone else had to initiate, you kind of write a script for yourself.
558
00:43:25,695 --> 00:43:29,735
And when the script is over, you kind of have to write a new one on the fly.
559
00:43:30,055 --> 00:43:36,495
And as you'll no doubt see from past episodes, and as you'll no doubt see in future episodes,
560
00:43:37,095 --> 00:43:39,995
autistics are not good at doing things was on the fly
561
00:43:39,995 --> 00:43:44,135
so i had to essentially discover without
562
00:43:44,135 --> 00:43:46,935
getting too much into it because it's definitely going to be
563
00:43:46,935 --> 00:43:49,895
like this episode's for sure gonna be two parts
564
00:43:49,895 --> 00:43:54,975
if not three because if you if you see our notes this was where are we like
565
00:43:54,975 --> 00:44:00,875
one paragraph in yeah of a four or five paragraph outline so there's going to
566
00:44:00,875 --> 00:44:07,215
be at least a couple of episodes just focused on the first three or four years of us together.
567
00:44:07,955 --> 00:44:14,275
And much like this episode, it's going to be very difficult because there's
568
00:44:14,275 --> 00:44:18,155
going to be a lot of really challenging topics that are going to be talked about.
569
00:44:18,295 --> 00:44:23,855
And it's not going to cast me in a very good light. I'll tell you that right
570
00:44:23,855 --> 00:44:25,195
now. Me neither, not always.
571
00:44:25,435 --> 00:44:28,735
And that's fine. People can call us on it or talk to us about it,
572
00:44:28,815 --> 00:44:30,715
message us. But you know what?
573
00:44:30,935 --> 00:44:36,155
This is actually the first episode where we sort of break away from the form
574
00:44:36,155 --> 00:44:44,215
of your average podcast, especially your average podcast regarding neurodiversity.
575
00:44:44,575 --> 00:44:45,735
And you say, you know what?
576
00:44:46,195 --> 00:44:49,795
It's not always going to be roses. Autistics can be real jerks,
577
00:44:49,795 --> 00:44:54,355
and they can be really stupid, and they could be really dense. Dense.
578
00:44:54,435 --> 00:45:02,035
And again, not all autistics, but this autistic right here was about as dense as dense can be.
579
00:45:02,135 --> 00:45:06,975
I'm not a scientist, but think of the densest mammal you can think of. I was that dense.
580
00:45:07,515 --> 00:45:09,675
Lead. Thank you. I was lead.
581
00:45:10,575 --> 00:45:14,935
I was as dense as lead. I mean, there are, I think, are denser ones,
582
00:45:15,035 --> 00:45:16,275
but I can't bring it to my group.
583
00:45:17,495 --> 00:45:20,815
So, yeah. What does this all have to do with everything?
584
00:45:21,015 --> 00:45:23,915
Well, I mean, if anybody's ever seen the
585
00:45:23,915 --> 00:45:26,915
living sliding doors there are moments in time
586
00:45:26,915 --> 00:45:29,615
many many moments during that story and i
587
00:45:29,615 --> 00:45:32,955
mean we've experienced it so we got all the details whereas we've sort of shared
588
00:45:32,955 --> 00:45:37,695
some of it with you where if i had known he was autistic or if i had understood
589
00:45:37,695 --> 00:45:42,295
my role in the situation i could have brought any of this to an end for either
590
00:45:42,295 --> 00:45:46,535
of us and everyone else that suffered from yes unfortunately Fortunately,
591
00:45:46,535 --> 00:45:48,655
being our second or third or fourth choices.
592
00:45:49,915 --> 00:45:56,895
So this is going to be about a one hour long prologue to the episode. Right.
593
00:45:57,715 --> 00:46:01,395
Because the episode. So what we're going to discuss in the next part of the
594
00:46:01,395 --> 00:46:04,575
episode, because I don't think we have time to get into it, is.
595
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:11,660
How autistic teenagers lead to be guided in terms of how to have a relationship,
596
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:16,080
how to segue from being a child to having romantic interests,
597
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,820
and what that might look like.
598
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:23,240
It's very pertinent to our situation because that's where we've ultimately decided
599
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:27,020
where we should have gotten together in order to maximize our happiness and
600
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:28,280
minimize hurting other people.
601
00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:32,720
You talk about watershed moments. and for
602
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:35,980
for me my life is full of watershed moments
603
00:46:35,980 --> 00:46:39,100
when it comes to Leah because in any
604
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:42,360
one of those occasions i mean definitely not
605
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,940
not the first meeting because seven-year-olds are not generally socially accepted
606
00:46:45,940 --> 00:46:52,340
to be married but at some point in the future possibly 98 the meeting there
607
00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:57,580
or possibly 97 we like to joke with raya that if we had gotten together when
608
00:46:57,580 --> 00:46:59,300
we should to have, she would be 30 years old.
609
00:46:59,460 --> 00:47:05,240
Right. And so what we're going to discuss in apparently the next episode is
610
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:12,720
going to be sort of a follow-up to last time's episode about social interactions.
611
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:19,820
Only we're going to take the one-hour or two-hour dinner party and really discuss
612
00:47:19,820 --> 00:47:23,460
how neurodivergents often
613
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:29,140
struggle to make the kinds of social connections that can lead to relationships,
614
00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:32,700
be they friendships or romantic relationships, the approach.
615
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,960
Right. And also the neurotypical person, right? The neurodifference.
616
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:42,880
Because for me, it took me until I was very much an adult, a married woman with children,
617
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,520
to understand that I could reach out to you and I didn't have to just wait there
618
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:53,920
for you to be the guy and be aggressive with me because that's what I use.
619
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,180
And as we mentioned at the beginning
620
00:47:57,180 --> 00:48:04,500
of the episode, the physical changes that happen with the person,
621
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,660
the bully or the girl, and again, if you want the details of it,
622
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,940
I'm sure there's plenty of podcasts about Peter here, are still happening.
623
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:18,060
But when you're looking at a neurodivergent who is still developmentally delayed
624
00:48:18,060 --> 00:48:20,620
in many ways, not always, but again, in many cases,
625
00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:25,340
you end up with a person who is developmentally at a certain point,
626
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,560
but physically, hormonally.
627
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,820
Sexually, at a different point.
628
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:38,940
And that can cause a significant conflict in how they relate to others and also
629
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:43,040
how they feel about themselves. So when I developed feelings,
630
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,900
they were an overall feeling, right?
631
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:51,040
I am now a maturing woman and I now have sexual attractions to people.
632
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,840
And this is just a thing that I have to date and get to know somebody before I can do.
633
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,500
Whereas you were very confused by her.
634
00:49:00,215 --> 00:49:06,575
I was, because essentially, you have a script in your head of just kind of following
635
00:49:06,575 --> 00:49:12,575
along with what you're feeling and what you're thinking and what you're interested
636
00:49:12,575 --> 00:49:14,955
in. And sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't.
637
00:49:15,035 --> 00:49:19,475
And sometimes you pursue it, and sometimes you don't. But when it comes to neurodivergence,
638
00:49:19,595 --> 00:49:22,595
and especially in the case of this one neurodivergent, again,
639
00:49:22,735 --> 00:49:27,875
one autistic, it was like there was a wall.
640
00:49:28,055 --> 00:49:37,955
It was like there was a divider between the me that was my interests and my
641
00:49:37,955 --> 00:49:40,855
focuses and my relationships.
642
00:49:41,395 --> 00:49:48,655
And then the me that was interested in pursuing things like a relationship and a romance and a family.
643
00:49:48,935 --> 00:49:52,635
And sometimes they don't. You'll hear a lot of stories about autistics that
644
00:49:52,635 --> 00:49:55,235
are like, I never want to have children. I never want to get married.
645
00:49:55,375 --> 00:49:58,175
I just want to play with my trains all day. And that's great.
646
00:49:58,355 --> 00:50:00,295
You know what? That's absolutely okay.
647
00:50:00,775 --> 00:50:07,455
But I didn't identify that. I basically spent my whole life looking up at this
648
00:50:07,455 --> 00:50:13,795
picture of a family They had a home and children and a wife and kids and the
649
00:50:13,795 --> 00:50:15,595
whole thing, a job, a career,
650
00:50:15,715 --> 00:50:18,135
and going, gosh, I wish I could get up there.
651
00:50:18,815 --> 00:50:23,235
And not knowing that I just needed to climb the stairs or take the elevator
652
00:50:23,235 --> 00:50:24,575
or whatever analogy you want to use.
653
00:50:24,755 --> 00:50:31,995
So I had the feelings in my mind of what I wanted, but I was so far down developmentally
654
00:50:31,995 --> 00:50:35,215
that I didn't know, number one, that I would be able to.
655
00:50:35,675 --> 00:50:39,035
Number two, that I was allowed to. number three
656
00:50:39,035 --> 00:50:41,835
that i know how to right so this is
657
00:50:41,835 --> 00:50:45,295
this is also very important because the whole
658
00:50:45,295 --> 00:50:51,715
next hour of this episode is going to be about how you can help your autistic
659
00:50:51,715 --> 00:50:56,815
teen or what should have been done for mosha because as you've expressed to
660
00:50:56,815 --> 00:51:01,235
me a lot of times you would have these thoughts in your head like i just want
661
00:51:01,235 --> 00:51:05,215
to finish this new video game i've been I don't want this feeling.
662
00:51:05,475 --> 00:51:09,375
Right. Like, I don't want to be attracted to this person. Or I don't want this
663
00:51:09,375 --> 00:51:11,155
thing to be happening in Penz region.
664
00:51:11,315 --> 00:51:14,095
I don't want this. Why can't this just go away?
665
00:51:14,415 --> 00:51:21,935
There was a joke that Jerry Seinfeld actually told, specifically related to
666
00:51:21,935 --> 00:51:27,715
why people in their office have pictures of their wife and kids and stuff all
667
00:51:27,715 --> 00:51:29,095
over their desk and on their cubicle.
668
00:51:29,095 --> 00:51:34,935
And he joked that it was because, you know, it's not like the office workers
669
00:51:34,935 --> 00:51:38,775
are going to go, okay, five o'clock, time for me to go hit the bars and the clubs. Let's go.
670
00:51:39,355 --> 00:51:41,895
Oh, shoot. Yeah, I have a wife and three kids.
671
00:51:42,615 --> 00:51:44,135
Guess I'm going home. Bye.
672
00:51:45,155 --> 00:51:49,935
That is literally what happens to a lot of autistics, a lot of neurodivergents
673
00:51:49,935 --> 00:51:54,135
who are at that developmental stage where they'll be going, you know what?
674
00:51:54,175 --> 00:51:55,635
I really want to go out drinking tonight.
675
00:51:56,455 --> 00:52:01,315
I'd love to just play the newest video game that just came out,
676
00:52:01,415 --> 00:52:05,815
the blah, blah, blah, the third, and really get into the new RPG.
677
00:52:05,815 --> 00:52:11,935
And then all of a sudden, they're like, oh, shoot, yeah, I have a job and a
678
00:52:11,935 --> 00:52:15,135
family and kids and I'm like 40 years old.
679
00:52:15,315 --> 00:52:20,195
I guess I can't play, you know, NHL 2024.
680
00:52:21,395 --> 00:52:27,715
So it's that discrepancy where oftentimes you're called back to this part of
681
00:52:27,715 --> 00:52:30,175
your life where you have to make a decision and you're like,
682
00:52:30,235 --> 00:52:34,555
okay, so your priority right now is very immature.
683
00:52:35,275 --> 00:52:38,315
So do you want that? Is that the life that you want?
684
00:52:38,555 --> 00:52:44,195
Or do you want the wife and the kids? And I've had adults, we've had that discussion multiple times.
685
00:52:44,935 --> 00:52:49,315
Absolutely. And it's hard, especially getting out of that mentality.
686
00:52:49,635 --> 00:52:53,275
And because, and I'll get into it in a later episode, because I never really
687
00:52:53,275 --> 00:52:57,635
had the knowledge that there was actually anything wrong with me.
688
00:52:57,735 --> 00:53:00,755
I thought I was just weird and normal and different.
689
00:53:02,175 --> 00:53:06,635
And this was perfectly okay for me to just constantly be playing.
690
00:53:06,695 --> 00:53:09,995
I'll tell one quick story related to that, and I think I might have already told it.
691
00:53:10,255 --> 00:53:15,175
But essentially, I was best friends with this guy from a band I used to watch,
692
00:53:15,315 --> 00:53:18,355
you know, shows on tv and movies and we
693
00:53:18,355 --> 00:53:21,235
used to have fun we used to go riding bikes and having water
694
00:53:21,235 --> 00:53:24,055
fights and playing video games and and doing
695
00:53:24,055 --> 00:53:27,215
all sorts of playing dungeons and dragon we used to have like a really great time
696
00:53:27,215 --> 00:53:30,175
and there was this this new
697
00:53:30,175 --> 00:53:33,035
video game uh that was the the fourth or
698
00:53:33,035 --> 00:53:35,975
the fifth edition to this other video game that we've been playing for years
699
00:53:35,975 --> 00:53:38,835
and years and years and years and years and one day
700
00:53:38,835 --> 00:53:41,955
i came to his house and i was all excited and i
701
00:53:41,955 --> 00:53:45,575
was like the fifth fifth game is coming out of the series and
702
00:53:45,575 --> 00:53:48,315
he was like i don't actually think that i want
703
00:53:48,315 --> 00:53:52,995
to play video games anymore i kind of you know want to get a job and and you
704
00:53:52,995 --> 00:53:59,875
know start dating and stuff and i was just like oh so why why do i still want
705
00:53:59,875 --> 00:54:03,675
to play video games and go riding bikes and have water fights and this this
706
00:54:03,675 --> 00:54:07,555
guy is actually still in my life he's a very lovely person we're friends now,
707
00:54:07,755 --> 00:54:12,355
he's a great guy, he also has a wife and kids,
708
00:54:12,715 --> 00:54:13,715
beautiful family.
709
00:54:14,619 --> 00:54:20,739
But he was my best friend, and it was really the first time in my life that
710
00:54:20,739 --> 00:54:25,719
I can recall where I actually asked myself, what's wrong with me?
711
00:54:25,859 --> 00:54:29,919
Why am I not where everyone else is? Because autistics often have that.
712
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:35,599
And if you also have that experience, I would love to hear your experience.
713
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:37,899
But essentially, everything is fine.
714
00:54:38,039 --> 00:54:40,539
You're on par with all of your friends. You're all doing the same thing.
715
00:54:40,539 --> 00:54:44,099
But then you hit a certain point where your fratties just keep moving further
716
00:54:44,099 --> 00:54:48,379
and further ahead and you're still sort of stuck there and going, what's going on?
717
00:54:48,479 --> 00:54:54,259
Like, why are all the people that I grew up with going on to other things and
718
00:54:54,259 --> 00:54:58,679
I'm still stuck in that one place in my life where I want to do fun things and,
719
00:54:58,739 --> 00:55:00,599
you know, younger things and kid things?
720
00:55:00,979 --> 00:55:04,099
Why don't I want to date? Why don't I want to get a job?
721
00:55:04,179 --> 00:55:08,819
Why don't I want to start focusing on university and careers?
722
00:55:08,819 --> 00:55:13,739
But the reality is you did want those things. You just didn't consistently want them.
723
00:55:13,839 --> 00:55:17,419
And you didn't necessarily know that you did, which led to some really cute
724
00:55:17,419 --> 00:55:21,019
stories, which maybe we can address while we're discussing the whole teen thing.
725
00:55:21,139 --> 00:55:25,879
Because I have some really cute memories of just bizarre and totally inappropriate,
726
00:55:26,179 --> 00:55:29,079
weird ways that you tried to show me that you cared about me,
727
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:30,239
but they're really adorable.
728
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:36,799
So this episode is going to be, or it is, extremely emotional and extremely heavy.
729
00:55:38,279 --> 00:55:42,339
And we're definitely going to have to put a disclaimer of some sort on it because
730
00:55:42,339 --> 00:55:43,939
we cover some really heavy topics.
731
00:55:43,939 --> 00:55:49,159
But the good news is that if you made it through the hour, at one minute and
732
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:54,419
counting, then your reward will be the second part of this episode,
733
00:55:54,619 --> 00:55:58,559
which will be only fun, happy, joyful,
734
00:55:58,859 --> 00:56:01,479
silly experiences.
735
00:56:01,519 --> 00:56:06,919
We'll tell some more stories about our childhood that were actually not heavy, whatever.
736
00:56:06,919 --> 00:56:09,839
Whatever well we'll also talk a lot about
737
00:56:09,839 --> 00:56:13,819
you know how teenagers often
738
00:56:13,819 --> 00:56:17,099
fall in love which is kind of a sweet topic and how we
739
00:56:17,099 --> 00:56:24,399
deal with with our emotions and how we we pursue relationships and the inevitable
740
00:56:24,399 --> 00:56:30,839
first breakup and and how someone who would cling so strongly to emotions and
741
00:56:30,839 --> 00:56:34,939
has such a hard time sometimes regulating them can, can deal with them.
742
00:56:35,199 --> 00:56:40,239
And if you happen to have autistic children and, and if you have autistic teenagers,
743
00:56:40,359 --> 00:56:45,439
maybe you've had similar experiences and you'll, you'll like experience to experience
744
00:56:45,439 --> 00:56:46,939
some of those in the future, so stay tuned.
745
00:56:47,865 --> 00:56:52,725
And we'll be back soon with another episode. Don't forget to listen,
746
00:56:52,885 --> 00:56:55,265
like, subscribe, share, review.
747
00:56:55,485 --> 00:56:57,805
All that stuff really helps us. Oh, yeah.
748
00:56:58,185 --> 00:57:04,265
Like Leah said, we have a Patreon where we will at some point.
749
00:57:04,945 --> 00:57:07,925
So if you didn't want to donate to the upkeep of the podcast,
750
00:57:08,345 --> 00:57:13,365
it's all going to allow us to continue to record better content and have a microphone
751
00:57:13,365 --> 00:57:16,785
that isn't less than ideal. deal.
752
00:57:17,085 --> 00:57:22,825
And if you go to our YouTube channel or Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
753
00:57:23,185 --> 00:57:28,685
Podchaser, iHeartRadio, if it streams podcasts, we're on it.
754
00:57:28,685 --> 00:57:30,925
Just search for Now You Know When Autistic.
755
00:57:30,965 --> 00:57:33,505
Hopefully, it will be one of the first videos that come up. Listen to it,
756
00:57:33,505 --> 00:57:36,785
like it, comment, dislike it. If you don't like it, tell us why.
757
00:57:37,585 --> 00:57:40,565
Eventually, we do want to do a Q&A
758
00:57:40,565 --> 00:57:44,705
episode where we answer listener questions and we
759
00:57:44,705 --> 00:57:47,645
move with like some cues so we can a at some
760
00:57:47,645 --> 00:57:52,785
point and what else i think that's about it share with your friends yeah have
761
00:57:52,785 --> 00:57:56,885
your friends view it and and hopefully we'll we'll uh we'll see you sometime
762
00:57:56,885 --> 00:58:02,545
to see you soon well that's our show for today now you know one autistic just
763
00:58:02,545 --> 00:58:06,345
a little bit better so something you may not know
764
00:58:06,645 --> 00:58:11,805
about some autistics is that we often struggle with ending social interactions
765
00:58:11,805 --> 00:58:19,745
so Leah all right Moshe I'll take care of it thank you for listening to now you know
766
00:58:19,745 --> 00:58:21,425
one autistic see you next week.
767
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:29,308
Music.