Now You Know One Autistic! Podcast
636
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,566
I found out now, which is where in the
afternoon, the day before that he does have
637
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:38,358
school tomorrow.
638
00:33:38,486 --> 00:33:40,422
And I've started preparing him now, because if
639
00:33:40,438 --> 00:33:44,074
you woke him up tomorrow morning and said,
okay, get up for school without him knowing,
640
00:33:44,574 --> 00:33:45,686
how would that go?
641
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:46,798
Moshe: Yeah, not good.
642
00:33:46,926 --> 00:33:48,206
Sudden changes in routines.
643
00:33:48,270 --> 00:33:53,294
So reasonable accommodations in a relationship
are where?
644
00:33:53,334 --> 00:33:53,870
You'll tell me.
645
00:33:53,902 --> 00:33:57,966
Okay, so tonight I'm going to an event with
646
00:33:57,990 --> 00:34:00,996
Raya, and you're going to be home with Abram.
647
00:34:01,110 --> 00:34:04,072
So is it okay if you make dinner for you and
648
00:34:04,088 --> 00:34:08,208
him or you go somewhere together instead of
just feeling like, well, I'm going out, and
649
00:34:08,216 --> 00:34:10,884
I'll be like, what's happening?
Like, what's going on?
650
00:34:11,664 --> 00:34:14,208
Respecting the need for alone time or quiet
space.
651
00:34:14,256 --> 00:34:17,144
When feeling overwhelmed again, we discuss
that.
652
00:34:17,184 --> 00:34:20,120
Sometimes that's reasonable, sometimes it's
not.
653
00:34:20,232 --> 00:34:23,816
Leah: Sometimes you take overly advantage of
it, or somebody can.
654
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,952
So we have also a unique perspective because
it became obvious early on, because Moshe made
655
00:34:28,968 --> 00:34:33,684
it obvious that when he meant he needed alone
time, that was never for me.
656
00:34:34,224 --> 00:34:36,448
Yes, being with me is the same as being alone.
657
00:34:36,496 --> 00:34:38,760
And that doesn't sound as romantic as it
658
00:34:38,792 --> 00:34:41,484
actually is on the surface now that it came
out of my mouth.
659
00:34:41,944 --> 00:34:45,792
But if you know autistics, well, that, that's
a huge thing.
660
00:34:45,888 --> 00:34:46,288
Moshe: It is.
661
00:34:46,336 --> 00:34:52,152
Leah: What was it you said to me, instead of I
love you, your presence is not painful when
662
00:34:52,168 --> 00:34:52,344
you're.
663
00:34:52,384 --> 00:34:58,166
Moshe: When you're with me, it is basically
the same as when I'm by myself in terms of my
664
00:34:58,190 --> 00:35:01,806
ability to decompress and be lesser.
665
00:35:01,870 --> 00:35:06,046
Leah: So we have a unique experience insofar
as even if he's in a room cloistering himself
666
00:35:06,110 --> 00:35:08,510
away from everyone else, I can be in there
with him.
667
00:35:08,542 --> 00:35:10,554
And usually that's actually helpful.
668
00:35:11,454 --> 00:35:15,774
Moshe: Or sometimes if I'm feeling really
overwhelmed, I'll actually say, can we go sit
669
00:35:15,814 --> 00:35:18,470
somewhere?
Can we go lie down together for a while?
670
00:35:18,662 --> 00:35:23,930
Because that will also help me with what I'm
going through.
671
00:35:24,122 --> 00:35:31,210
Seeking professional help from therapists in
either case, because there are therapists that
672
00:35:31,242 --> 00:35:35,734
will help with dealing with autistic behavior.
673
00:35:36,114 --> 00:35:39,042
But there's also, like, family therapists or
674
00:35:39,058 --> 00:35:45,686
couple therapists that are skilled at working
with couples where one or both of them are
675
00:35:45,710 --> 00:35:52,270
neurodivergent and working on strategies to
sort of see each other's perspective and work
676
00:35:52,302 --> 00:35:55,714
on theory of mind and patience and all that
stuff.
677
00:35:57,534 --> 00:36:02,422
Joining a support group for partners of
autistic individuals, again, it's not a
678
00:36:02,438 --> 00:36:07,382
failing, it's not a weakness, it's not a, you
know, you're, you know, driving me away.
679
00:36:07,438 --> 00:36:10,514
You're making me, you know, you're a bad
person.
680
00:36:10,814 --> 00:36:19,470
It's just a lot of the time, it's as much for
the good of the relationship as it is for the
681
00:36:19,502 --> 00:36:20,854
non autistic partner.
682
00:36:20,894 --> 00:36:23,274
Leah: I'm in one online, I found a really good
one.
683
00:36:23,614 --> 00:36:28,474
It's called neurotypical partners of
neurodivergent people.
684
00:36:29,334 --> 00:36:31,198
And it's mostly women.
685
00:36:31,246 --> 00:36:31,830
For whatever reason.
686
00:36:31,862 --> 00:36:34,374
I think women tend to reach out for help more
than men do.
687
00:36:34,414 --> 00:36:37,854
But there are some men there, and there's
straight relationships, there are gay
688
00:36:37,894 --> 00:36:43,876
relationships, and you've been very supportive
of that.
689
00:36:44,020 --> 00:36:48,916
And it's not always glowing in terms of, you
know, a lot of it is neurotypical people
690
00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:54,140
complaining about their neurodivergent spout,
which isn't necessarily healthy, but sometimes
691
00:36:54,172 --> 00:36:57,220
it is too, because they need just to hear, oh,
yeah, me too.
692
00:36:57,252 --> 00:36:57,588
I get it.
693
00:36:57,596 --> 00:36:59,268
I understand you're not crazy.
694
00:36:59,396 --> 00:37:02,596
And you could have been like, that's an
unhealthy, toxic environment for you to be in.
695
00:37:02,620 --> 00:37:03,316
You should leave it.
696
00:37:03,340 --> 00:37:06,856
But you understood sort of my need to vent and
697
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,044
get support from my unique perspective.
698
00:37:15,264 --> 00:37:21,408
Moshe: And, I mean, in general, it's actually
really helpful for you because I know that I
699
00:37:21,416 --> 00:37:22,240
can be a lot.
700
00:37:22,352 --> 00:37:24,304
I know that I can be difficult.
701
00:37:24,384 --> 00:37:31,728
And you have expressed to me on several
occasions that it would make you feel better
702
00:37:31,856 --> 00:37:36,964
if you could kind of share some of the
experiences that we've had with other people
703
00:37:37,304 --> 00:37:39,804
and feel like you're not alone.
704
00:37:40,664 --> 00:37:44,336
Leah: And I can't necessarily share it with
people in our life because, one, they probably
705
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,040
wouldn't necessarily believe me.
706
00:37:46,192 --> 00:37:49,080
And two, it takes something that is a
707
00:37:49,112 --> 00:37:54,224
temporary problem between us and just gives
people a perspective that they should
708
00:37:54,264 --> 00:37:55,088
necessarily have.
709
00:37:55,136 --> 00:37:57,000
So you have to be careful about talking about
710
00:37:57,032 --> 00:37:58,072
certain things to people that.
711
00:37:58,088 --> 00:38:02,962
Moshe: You'Re too close sometimes having,
like, strangers to talk to who can see it from
712
00:38:02,978 --> 00:38:05,498
an outside perspective, who don't know me, who
don't know you, because then.
713
00:38:05,506 --> 00:38:08,146
Leah: You get people who take sides or they're
like, I know, motion.
714
00:38:08,210 --> 00:38:08,954
You wouldn't do that.
715
00:38:08,994 --> 00:38:10,666
Or they say to me, he shouldn't do that to
716
00:38:10,690 --> 00:38:10,874
you.
717
00:38:10,914 --> 00:38:11,874
That's so horrible.
718
00:38:11,994 --> 00:38:15,094
And then you just, you don't want that in your
inner circle.
719
00:38:15,714 --> 00:38:21,970
Moshe: So acknowledging and appreciating each
other's strengths and positive qualities, it's
720
00:38:22,002 --> 00:38:23,054
never all bad.
721
00:38:24,694 --> 00:38:26,686
Wonderful person, mostly.
722
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:27,878
Leah: No, you absolutely are.
723
00:38:27,926 --> 00:38:34,814
Moshe: And you have, have taken great strides
to better understand me and to work with me
724
00:38:34,854 --> 00:38:36,382
and to be patient with me.
725
00:38:36,518 --> 00:38:40,878
And you're very, very good at pointing out.
726
00:38:41,046 --> 00:38:44,486
Thank you so much for expressing to me what
you were going through.
727
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:48,594
Thank you for putting into words that thing
that you were feeling.
728
00:38:48,934 --> 00:38:51,868
I'm really glad that we could talk about it
and work through it.
729
00:38:51,966 --> 00:38:53,384
Leah: Right. So I'd like to make a point.
730
00:38:53,424 --> 00:38:55,984
There is that everybody in their romantic
731
00:38:56,024 --> 00:39:00,944
relationships does thank or if they're healthy
anyway and congratulate their partner for
732
00:39:00,984 --> 00:39:01,640
growth.
733
00:39:01,832 --> 00:39:03,880
The thing is that the things you needed to
734
00:39:03,912 --> 00:39:08,648
grow at are not the expected because your
development wasn't at the expected level.
735
00:39:08,816 --> 00:39:12,536
So I do find it necessary to thank you for
just being like, wow, gave me extra hugs
736
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:12,864
today.
737
00:39:12,944 --> 00:39:13,360
Thank you.
738
00:39:13,392 --> 00:39:14,392
I love that so much.
739
00:39:14,448 --> 00:39:17,600
Or, wow, you expressed your feelings in words
740
00:39:17,672 --> 00:39:19,928
so that I didn't, you know, we didn't have a
fight.
741
00:39:20,056 --> 00:39:21,512
A lot of it now as well.
742
00:39:21,648 --> 00:39:23,352
This would have caused a fight before, and we
743
00:39:23,368 --> 00:39:23,784
didn't fight.
744
00:39:23,824 --> 00:39:24,976
We're doing so well.
745
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,008
And that's a we thing again.
746
00:39:27,056 --> 00:39:29,120
I want to put myself up there as an example of
747
00:39:29,152 --> 00:39:37,520
also not being perfect and also needing to
learn to adjust my expectation of what my
748
00:39:37,552 --> 00:39:39,644
function would be in the relationship.
749
00:39:40,064 --> 00:39:42,128
Moshe: Right. And, I mean, I'm proud of me,
too.
750
00:39:42,136 --> 00:39:44,024
Leah: I'm like, wow, I didn't fight with you
over that much.
751
00:39:44,064 --> 00:39:44,936
I did see so good.
752
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,776
Moshe: We're working through a lot of the
issues that we had at the beginning of the
753
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,912
relationship where I didn't understand you and
you didn't understand me and there was a lot
754
00:39:53,928 --> 00:40:03,604
of conflict, and we'll get into that probably
in another episode or two.
755
00:40:04,624 --> 00:40:09,120
So open and non judgmental communication about
autistic traits and their impact on the
756
00:40:09,152 --> 00:40:10,004
relationship.
757
00:40:10,404 --> 00:40:12,644
And this kind of goes hand in hand with
758
00:40:12,724 --> 00:40:15,484
appreciating and acknowledging each other's
strengths.
759
00:40:15,644 --> 00:40:20,956
Leah: So at the beginning, I was much more
open to acknowledge the autistic traits that
760
00:40:20,980 --> 00:40:22,588
you had than you were.
761
00:40:22,756 --> 00:40:23,252
Moshe: Right.
762
00:40:23,348 --> 00:40:24,212
Leah: You didn't want to know about it.
763
00:40:24,228 --> 00:40:25,172
You didn't want to talk about it, you didn't
764
00:40:25,188 --> 00:40:25,980
want to hear about it.
765
00:40:26,052 --> 00:40:26,664
Moshe: Right.
766
00:40:27,164 --> 00:40:28,828
Because autism equaled bad.
767
00:40:28,916 --> 00:40:33,244
Leah: But we actually only started making
progress when you sort of met me halfway
768
00:40:33,284 --> 00:40:33,724
there.
769
00:40:33,844 --> 00:40:34,504
Moshe: Right.
770
00:40:36,104 --> 00:40:41,504
So that's something that you really need to
771
00:40:41,544 --> 00:40:42,124
discuss.
772
00:40:42,424 --> 00:40:45,152
And unfortunately, in our experience, a lot of
773
00:40:45,288 --> 00:40:53,284
partners of autistics, and unfortunately for
us, this was a source of some of our earlier
774
00:40:53,584 --> 00:40:54,464
arguments.
775
00:40:54,624 --> 00:41:00,936
Whereas your behavior, while caused by autism,
776
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,204
was still not acceptable.
777
00:41:03,304 --> 00:41:03,804
Leah: Right.
778
00:41:03,924 --> 00:41:10,020
Moshe: And acknowledging it, it didn't
disqualify the feelings that came of it.
779
00:41:10,132 --> 00:41:12,932
Yes, I understand that you're feeling very
overwhelmed.
780
00:41:13,068 --> 00:41:19,068
Yes, I understand that this is due to your
autism, but snapping at me like that is not
781
00:41:19,156 --> 00:41:19,660
okay.
782
00:41:19,732 --> 00:41:24,604
Leah: Right. And then I would have to explain
to you, because that makes me feel this way
783
00:41:24,764 --> 00:41:28,188
and my brain and emotions doesn't distinguish
the two.
784
00:41:28,356 --> 00:41:28,840
Moshe: Right.
785
00:41:28,932 --> 00:41:32,920
Leah: Logically, I know what it is, but
emotionally, you're still harming me and I'm
786
00:41:32,952 --> 00:41:34,000
still going to react that way.
787
00:41:34,032 --> 00:41:35,560
And then you would ask, why are you acting
788
00:41:35,592 --> 00:41:37,056
this way?
And it was a whole thing.
789
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:42,592
So it's actually, again, I say this every
episode, as most things we discuss, it's much
790
00:41:42,648 --> 00:41:48,688
more complex and you can dig down way
underneath it to figure out, like, there's
791
00:41:48,736 --> 00:41:52,244
more and more and more layers to it all the
time.
792
00:41:53,504 --> 00:41:59,688
Moshe: So we'll kind of flip it around and
talk about some examples of unrealistic
793
00:41:59,816 --> 00:42:05,240
expectations or accommodations or demands, and
we'll spend a little bit less time discussing
794
00:42:05,272 --> 00:42:09,216
them because unfortunately, we're running a
bit low on time.
795
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:10,384
And I have.
796
00:42:10,544 --> 00:42:12,816
There's still lots and lots of stuff to get
797
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:13,216
to.
798
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,208
So unreasonable demands.
799
00:42:16,336 --> 00:42:20,640
Expecting the non autistic partner to always
prioritize the autistic person's needs over
800
00:42:20,672 --> 00:42:25,000
their own needs, demanding that the non
autistic partner never expresses their
801
00:42:25,032 --> 00:42:29,920
emotional needs or seeks emotional support
because the autistic partner simply doesn't
802
00:42:29,992 --> 00:42:33,016
understand or get it and it's unfair to them.
803
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,280
Refusing to acknowledge or work on
804
00:42:35,312 --> 00:42:38,564
communication and understanding in the
relationship.
805
00:42:39,304 --> 00:42:40,672
You should just understand me.
806
00:42:40,688 --> 00:42:42,248
You should get what's going on.
807
00:42:42,416 --> 00:42:43,840
We don't need to work on it.
808
00:42:43,872 --> 00:42:45,968
It's your problem that's actually go both.
809
00:42:46,016 --> 00:42:49,844
Leah: Ways too, though I can see a
neurotypical saying that as well, right?
810
00:42:52,674 --> 00:42:57,170
Moshe: Insisting that the non autistic partner
should just accept the harmful behavior.
811
00:42:57,282 --> 00:42:58,522
Because I'm autistic.
812
00:42:58,578 --> 00:42:59,694
I can't help it.
813
00:43:00,434 --> 00:43:05,690
Expecting the non autistic partner to
constantly have to walk on eggshells or avoid
814
00:43:05,762 --> 00:43:08,882
any perceived criticism of the autistic
partner.
815
00:43:09,018 --> 00:43:13,794
Demanding that the non autistic partner should
never question or clarify the autistic's
816
00:43:13,834 --> 00:43:14,594
perspective.
817
00:43:14,714 --> 00:43:17,914
We discussed a few episodes about the autistic
818
00:43:17,954 --> 00:43:19,094
need to be right.
819
00:43:19,684 --> 00:43:21,060
I don't want to start anything.
820
00:43:21,132 --> 00:43:23,436
I know he's wrong, but I don't want to fight.
821
00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:25,012
So I'm just going to go, yes, of course.
822
00:43:25,068 --> 00:43:26,484
That's exactly how it happened, right?
823
00:43:26,524 --> 00:43:28,692
Leah: And I mean, some people, I think, are
fine with that.
824
00:43:28,748 --> 00:43:33,544
For me, I can only do that for so long before
I explode, as we discovered, right?
825
00:43:33,844 --> 00:43:39,580
Moshe: Refusing to get help or support for
managing autistic traits and how they're
826
00:43:39,612 --> 00:43:41,384
impacting the relationship.
827
00:43:41,884 --> 00:43:43,676
Expecting the non autistic partner to
828
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:49,936
completely sacrifice their own needs and their
own well being in order to, in effect, be a
829
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,004
caregiver to the autistic partner.
830
00:43:52,424 --> 00:43:55,128
Blaming the non autistic partner for all
831
00:43:55,176 --> 00:43:57,248
relationship problems or difficulties.
832
00:43:57,376 --> 00:43:58,424
I'm autistic.
833
00:43:58,544 --> 00:44:02,400
This is your fault because you need to, you
know, that happened a lot.
834
00:44:02,432 --> 00:44:05,712
Leah: At the beginning where you would say
stuff like, I was fine until you did the blah,
835
00:44:05,728 --> 00:44:09,680
blah, blah, and I was like, no, you were not,
you know?
836
00:44:09,792 --> 00:44:10,444
Moshe: Right.
837
00:44:10,944 --> 00:44:12,872
And unfortunately, we did work through it
838
00:44:12,888 --> 00:44:17,154
again through the reasonable demands,
communication, working through things.
839
00:44:17,314 --> 00:44:23,094
It's all relatively old at this point, but it
was a problem at first, for sure.
840
00:44:23,434 --> 00:44:28,294
Demanding that the non autistic partner should
never seek advice from others.
841
00:44:29,234 --> 00:44:31,214
That's really important.
842
00:44:34,794 --> 00:44:38,130
Next episode, we are going to get into a
843
00:44:38,162 --> 00:44:43,924
really serious topic when it comes to abuse in
autistic relationships.
844
00:44:44,074 --> 00:44:48,824
And unfortunately, there's a lot of reasons
for why.
845
00:44:48,864 --> 00:44:55,800
It is unfortunately somewhat common for an
autistic partner who is abusive, which again,
846
00:44:55,952 --> 00:44:57,324
not always the case.
847
00:44:57,664 --> 00:44:58,984
There's definitely two sides.
848
00:44:59,024 --> 00:45:00,128
Leah: Abuse goes both ways.
849
00:45:00,176 --> 00:45:05,592
Moshe: We're not saying that, but in this
case, where an autistic partner will act a
850
00:45:05,608 --> 00:45:10,632
certain way and then when the partner is hurt
and I need to talk to someone about this, they
851
00:45:10,648 --> 00:45:15,478
go, no, you're not allowed to because you're
just going to say this about me and that about
852
00:45:15,486 --> 00:45:15,630
me.
853
00:45:15,662 --> 00:45:19,182
Leah: The reality is when you're feeling that
way, it's because deep down, you know what you
854
00:45:19,198 --> 00:45:19,878
did was wrong.
855
00:45:19,966 --> 00:45:20,886
Moshe: Exactly.
856
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:23,566
Because you know that you're in the wrong in
857
00:45:23,590 --> 00:45:24,254
this case.
858
00:45:24,374 --> 00:45:26,286
And you know that if they go to talk to their
859
00:45:26,310 --> 00:45:29,718
friend or their family and say, this is what's
going on in our relationship, they're going to
860
00:45:29,726 --> 00:45:33,834
go, well, that's not allowed, that's not okay,
et cetera, et cetera.
861
00:45:34,254 --> 00:45:40,084
And again, just a reminder that in the end,
when you summarize all of those things,
862
00:45:41,224 --> 00:45:45,776
communication, understanding, and a
willingness to compromise and accommodate each
863
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:52,152
other's needs are crucial for any
relationship, especially when there's a
864
00:45:52,208 --> 00:45:54,764
different neuro functionality.
865
00:45:55,224 --> 00:45:56,496
So, personal stories.
866
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:03,160
Yes, this is by far going to be one of the
longest aspects of this, and we have
867
00:46:03,192 --> 00:46:05,316
approximately 15 minutes to go through it.
868
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,660
Leah: I mean, if we go over a little bit, I
think our listeners will forgive us.
869
00:46:08,692 --> 00:46:11,020
It's a pretty interesting topic, so we'll.
870
00:46:11,052 --> 00:46:15,092
Moshe: Discuss each story at a reasonable
length.
871
00:46:15,268 --> 00:46:20,756
So the first story that someone shared with us
is, I had immense difficulty working in an
872
00:46:20,780 --> 00:46:26,116
office environment and nearly lost several
jobs because of my absenteeism due to anxiety
873
00:46:26,180 --> 00:46:29,252
that I couldn't overcome that would cause me
to not get to the office.
874
00:46:29,308 --> 00:46:35,488
I repeatedly asked for accommodations, which
for me was asking my work to convert my job to
875
00:46:35,576 --> 00:46:39,640
a hybrid remote where I would spend two days
in the office and then three days at home.
876
00:46:39,832 --> 00:46:45,552
My job was a technology company and very
capable of being accommodating and allowing me
877
00:46:45,568 --> 00:46:47,364
to work remotely.
878
00:46:47,664 --> 00:46:50,644
However, they were unwilling to accommodate me
879
00:46:50,944 --> 00:46:53,944
and in the end I had to leave the job after
nearly a decade.
880
00:46:53,984 --> 00:46:59,050
I did find an employer that was able to
accommodate this, and I've since thrived in my
881
00:46:59,082 --> 00:46:59,734
career.
882
00:47:01,194 --> 00:47:05,602
I experienced this myself in a past job where
883
00:47:05,778 --> 00:47:13,786
I am autistic and if I have to talk for 8
hours a day to people and deal with a lot of
884
00:47:13,810 --> 00:47:19,882
complex issues as I have in past jobs, I get
overwhelmed and I need a break or a breather
885
00:47:19,938 --> 00:47:20,474
between them.
886
00:47:20,514 --> 00:47:23,506
And my workplace tried to accommodate me a
887
00:47:23,530 --> 00:47:24,334
little bit.
888
00:47:24,924 --> 00:47:25,468
Leah: Not enough.
889
00:47:25,516 --> 00:47:26,908
They could have done absolutely more.
890
00:47:26,956 --> 00:47:28,824
Moshe: But in the end I was like, you know
what?
891
00:47:29,844 --> 00:47:37,668
I am really good at attention to detail, so
switch me to a job where I can read
892
00:47:37,716 --> 00:47:40,624
application forms or go through data entry.
893
00:47:41,164 --> 00:47:43,788
I'm really good at picking out little errors.
894
00:47:43,916 --> 00:47:46,268
So that would be something that I'm really
good at.
895
00:47:46,436 --> 00:47:49,656
And they said, no, that's not going to work
for us.
896
00:47:49,820 --> 00:47:51,884
Leah: That's not what we hired you for.
897
00:47:52,224 --> 00:47:54,432
Moshe: So I ended up having to leave the job
and such.
898
00:47:54,488 --> 00:47:56,080
Leah: It essentially went like this.
899
00:47:56,152 --> 00:47:58,736
And it's very disappointing because they're a
900
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,216
company that's supposed to be well known for
being politically correct and all this stuff,
901
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,512
right?
It went like this.
902
00:48:04,568 --> 00:48:10,168
Moshe got his diagnosis and his psychiatrist
mentioned to him that maybe he would be better
903
00:48:10,216 --> 00:48:14,800
off doing things that were less intense in
terms of concentration, multitasking and
904
00:48:14,832 --> 00:48:15,844
talking to people.
905
00:48:16,164 --> 00:48:20,572
And he even wrote it up and we sent it in or
906
00:48:20,588 --> 00:48:25,852
Moshe sent it in and his work essentially
said, well, you weren't autistic before, you
907
00:48:25,868 --> 00:48:28,844
were able to do this before, so why can't you
do it now?
908
00:48:28,924 --> 00:48:31,028
And that was essentially their response.
909
00:48:31,156 --> 00:48:31,492
Moshe: Right.
910
00:48:31,548 --> 00:48:33,504
Leah: So it didn't end very well.
911
00:48:34,404 --> 00:48:41,580
Moshe: Yeah, so it wasn't a great ending to
that, but in the end it's all sort of gravy.
912
00:48:41,612 --> 00:48:51,452
Now the next issue is one that I referred to
earlier in regards to another experience that
913
00:48:51,468 --> 00:48:53,348
I shared at school.
914
00:48:53,396 --> 00:48:54,676
I had a very hard time.
915
00:48:54,820 --> 00:48:55,852
I had accommodations.
916
00:48:55,948 --> 00:48:58,308
However, they were only ever seen or meant to
917
00:48:58,316 --> 00:49:04,868
be temporary as it was believed that I would
simply get over my autism if I was exposed to
918
00:49:04,876 --> 00:49:06,064
a situation enough.
919
00:49:06,404 --> 00:49:08,748
For example, for a while I was allowed to go
920
00:49:08,756 --> 00:49:13,556
to the student services office when I was
feeling overwhelmed or I had a meltdown in
921
00:49:13,580 --> 00:49:19,572
class and they were accommodating to me at
first and I would contact my teachers and let
922
00:49:19,588 --> 00:49:24,876
them know what was happening and then I would
take the work and I would do the work and all
923
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:28,420
the assigned homework so I could stay caught
up with the classroom.
924
00:49:28,532 --> 00:49:34,940
But as time went on, the people in the student
support services office were sick of me.
925
00:49:35,132 --> 00:49:39,244
One day when I walked in I heard two of them
say, this is B's.
926
00:49:39,704 --> 00:49:43,696
And then one of them proceeded to march me
down to the classroom and yelled at me in
927
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:46,884
front of my peers to get in the classroom.
928
00:49:47,224 --> 00:49:50,280
I had a complete shutdown as personally I felt
929
00:49:50,392 --> 00:49:54,064
that this was a reasonable accommodation as I
was just trying to get through a mandatory
930
00:49:54,144 --> 00:49:59,924
part of my life as an autistic person
occupying a space that wasn't made for me.
931
00:50:00,984 --> 00:50:05,190
And our opinion of that was, it was extremely
reasonable.
932
00:50:05,352 --> 00:50:05,978
Leah: It was.
933
00:50:06,066 --> 00:50:11,754
Moshe: And I also experienced the same thing
where when I started a new high school, it was
934
00:50:11,794 --> 00:50:13,082
very packed.
935
00:50:13,138 --> 00:50:16,186
There was about 2500 people there and I was
936
00:50:16,210 --> 00:50:21,778
feeling overwhelmed by the crowds and the
noise and I would have meltdowns or shutdowns
937
00:50:21,826 --> 00:50:27,362
regularly and eventually I would go to the
student counseling office and just sit there
938
00:50:27,418 --> 00:50:32,816
until I could acclimatize, which of course
never happened because autism was never going
939
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,924
to go away on its own.
940
00:50:35,584 --> 00:50:38,720
So in the end they actually ended up calling
941
00:50:38,912 --> 00:50:42,256
my family and saying, I don't think that this
is for him.
942
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:49,920
So I ended up for a few months going to a
special school where in addition to working on
943
00:50:50,112 --> 00:50:58,482
schoolwork I also had regular contact with a
therapist and a psychiatrist, and they taught
944
00:50:58,498 --> 00:50:59,610
me coping strategies.
945
00:50:59,682 --> 00:51:01,354
And they said, when you're feeling overwhelmed
946
00:51:01,394 --> 00:51:04,322
and you're feeling like you're gonna have a
shutdown or you're feeling like you're gonna
947
00:51:04,338 --> 00:51:08,834
have a meltdown, or you're feeling
overstimulated by sounds or sights or smells
948
00:51:08,874 --> 00:51:15,282
or something, instead of, like, leaving the
situation and removing the things, find your
949
00:51:15,338 --> 00:51:24,672
way to, like, focus your mind and self, talk
your way through it, so that in the end, you
950
00:51:24,688 --> 00:51:31,376
can actually deal with some, if not all of the
things that were causing you a lot of anxiety.
951
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:37,376
And actually, the strategies that I learned
are still at work today, where I can go out
952
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:42,048
and I can feel very overwhelmed by the
temperatures and the people and the sounds.
953
00:51:42,096 --> 00:51:47,152
I can go into crowded places, and I'm feeling
very anxious, but I can go, okay, you know
954
00:51:47,168 --> 00:51:48,200
what?
This is fine.
955
00:51:48,312 --> 00:51:49,844
There's no one here is going to hurt me.
956
00:51:49,944 --> 00:51:51,852
It's very loud, but I can.
957
00:51:51,908 --> 00:51:54,404
I can tune some of it out.
958
00:51:54,564 --> 00:51:56,044
I can be all right.
959
00:51:56,204 --> 00:51:57,824
This food is very hot.
960
00:51:59,124 --> 00:52:01,704
I don't have to react over.
961
00:52:02,044 --> 00:52:03,044
I can just accept.
962
00:52:03,124 --> 00:52:03,948
Okay.
963
00:52:04,116 --> 00:52:06,300
You know, this temperature is very hard for
me.
964
00:52:06,372 --> 00:52:09,916
Leah: This actually brings up an accommodation
that's very interesting because it's very
965
00:52:09,980 --> 00:52:11,344
intrinsic to us.
966
00:52:13,564 --> 00:52:15,364
We're modern orthodox Jews.
967
00:52:15,404 --> 00:52:16,780
I think we've mentioned that a few times.
968
00:52:16,852 --> 00:52:17,196
Moshe: Yes.
969
00:52:17,260 --> 00:52:25,660
Leah: Okay. So there's this jewish law that
you're meant to keep even between yourself and
970
00:52:25,692 --> 00:52:26,644
your spouse.
971
00:52:26,804 --> 00:52:28,252
When you're outside, you're not supposed to
972
00:52:28,268 --> 00:52:33,756
touch each other horribly, a lot or at all,
really.
973
00:52:33,940 --> 00:52:36,704
And kissing and hugging is sort of out of the
question.
974
00:52:38,164 --> 00:52:42,942
And we had to come to a point where we
discussed it with each other.
975
00:52:43,108 --> 00:52:47,106
And, I mean, we could have checked with a
rabbi, but I don't think that we really felt
976
00:52:47,130 --> 00:52:53,906
the need to at that point where we decided
that we weren't going to 100% keep that as
977
00:52:53,930 --> 00:52:54,514
much as we could.
978
00:52:54,554 --> 00:52:56,434
Because there's another concept in Judaism
979
00:52:56,474 --> 00:53:01,570
where health and well being comes before
everything, and your health and well being
980
00:53:01,602 --> 00:53:02,650
will dictate that.
981
00:53:02,722 --> 00:53:05,706
Because I was just picturing what you were
982
00:53:05,730 --> 00:53:08,810
saying, and I was thinking, what would I do in
that situation?
983
00:53:08,922 --> 00:53:11,954
And what you absolutely need in that situation
is physical contact.
984
00:53:12,034 --> 00:53:13,290
You need for me to hold your hand.
985
00:53:13,322 --> 00:53:14,884
You need for me to put my arms around you.
986
00:53:14,914 --> 00:53:15,224
You.
987
00:53:15,304 --> 00:53:17,648
You sometimes will even need a kiss in public.
988
00:53:17,736 --> 00:53:18,844
Heaven forbid.
989
00:53:19,704 --> 00:53:22,104
And we decided that for our relationship, that
990
00:53:22,144 --> 00:53:26,404
is the way that that has to work, because it's
a health need for you.
991
00:53:27,224 --> 00:53:31,152
So that's another accommodation that some
people would find unreasonable but we've sort
992
00:53:31,168 --> 00:53:33,728
of set up for ourselves and, I mean.
993
00:53:33,896 --> 00:53:38,120
Moshe: We try to limit it as much as possible,
or we'll, like, look around to see if there's,
994
00:53:38,152 --> 00:53:42,428
like, anybody necessarily looking at us, but
at the same time, health and well being.
995
00:53:42,476 --> 00:53:48,532
If I'm feeling very overwhelmed, it's more
important to me that I ground myself and feel
996
00:53:48,588 --> 00:53:54,864
better than to respect the need to not
necessarily be too intimate in public.
997
00:53:56,044 --> 00:54:04,876
So I saved the best for last, and this is by
far the longest story that someone sent in to
998
00:54:04,900 --> 00:54:05,464
us.
999
00:54:06,264 --> 00:54:09,712
And it's very interesting and it's very long,
1000
00:54:09,808 --> 00:54:15,856
and we're again, running out the clock a
little bit, so I'm going to kind of go through
1001
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:21,592
it pretty quickly and then we can kind of
discuss it a little bit before we get to final
1002
00:54:21,648 --> 00:54:22,364
thoughts.
1003
00:54:22,704 --> 00:54:24,184
So it starts thusly.
1004
00:54:24,344 --> 00:54:26,808
My partner has two children from her previous
marriage.
1005
00:54:26,936 --> 00:54:30,056
We had significant challenges when tried to
live in the house with everyone.
1006
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:35,392
I needed daily separation from the constant
noise, emotions, etcetera of everyone else.
1007
00:54:35,528 --> 00:54:39,632
This usually meant I would, quote unquote,
take a nap, but often I would just lay in a
1008
00:54:39,648 --> 00:54:42,128
dark room focusing on one of my hyper focuses.
1009
00:54:42,296 --> 00:54:44,352
I was seen as not being engaged with the
1010
00:54:44,368 --> 00:54:47,164
household and we all failed to find the
cumber.
1011
00:54:47,784 --> 00:54:54,480
I moved out nine months ago and we maintain
our relationship long distance with my partner
1012
00:54:54,512 --> 00:54:58,936
now, where we'll occasionally get together and
then at the end we'll return to our separate
1013
00:54:59,040 --> 00:54:59,800
dwellings.
1014
00:54:59,952 --> 00:55:03,562
It's difficult, but my partner helps me when I
1015
00:55:03,578 --> 00:55:09,762
have my own separate space and time, and I can
focus on my interests when I'm not able to
1016
00:55:09,898 --> 00:55:11,210
focus on hers.
1017
00:55:11,402 --> 00:55:12,986
My partner is not a planner.
1018
00:55:13,130 --> 00:55:17,914
We have struggled to manage her needs for
spontaneity with my need for structure.
1019
00:55:18,074 --> 00:55:22,454
Sometimes we do this well, and other times we
just get upset and retreat into our own
1020
00:55:22,994 --> 00:55:24,306
private spaces.
1021
00:55:24,490 --> 00:55:26,802
Overwhelmingly, she lets me plan our events
1022
00:55:26,858 --> 00:55:29,874
and travel and create an itinerary.
1023
00:55:30,294 --> 00:55:32,958
I assume she's not going to stick to it, but
1024
00:55:33,006 --> 00:55:35,822
it will at least be a guide for our time.
1025
00:55:35,878 --> 00:55:38,950
That helps me feel better, as there's a little
1026
00:55:38,982 --> 00:55:40,314
bit of predictability.
1027
00:55:40,774 --> 00:55:43,414
Another thing is my father lives out of state,
1028
00:55:43,454 --> 00:55:45,686
but regularly he visits my state.
1029
00:55:45,830 --> 00:55:48,958
He is notorious for surprising me by calling
1030
00:55:49,006 --> 00:55:52,326
me on his way down to get together with me.
1031
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:54,462
No matter how many times I've told him that I
1032
00:55:54,478 --> 00:55:57,430
need more than a couple of hours notice, he
doesn't get it.
1033
00:55:57,542 --> 00:56:02,230
I can't tell you how many times I've had to
lie to him and make up excuses for why I can't
1034
00:56:02,262 --> 00:56:08,434
see him, only because not having advance
notice causes me so much anxiety.
1035
00:56:09,014 --> 00:56:14,214
One of my biggest struggles with my partner
that we've had in our relationship is that she
1036
00:56:14,254 --> 00:56:18,966
feels immense pressure to be my be all and end
all person because I don't have any other
1037
00:56:18,990 --> 00:56:20,214
close relationships.
1038
00:56:20,334 --> 00:56:23,306
But for me, all I need is my partner, some
1039
00:56:23,330 --> 00:56:25,914
Internet friends and a few friends that I
connect with.
1040
00:56:25,954 --> 00:56:31,938
Once in a very long while, she has that time
folds away and felt like I need to go create
1041
00:56:31,986 --> 00:56:36,330
my own life without it because it's felt like
too much pressure for her.
1042
00:56:36,522 --> 00:56:43,442
I've tried to explain that her idea of having
my own life isn't the same as mine and that
1043
00:56:43,458 --> 00:56:45,014
I'm just wired this way.
1044
00:56:45,354 --> 00:56:48,294
We haven't found a way through this.
1045
00:56:49,404 --> 00:56:53,204
Looking back on most of my relationships, the
primary accommodation theme has been about
1046
00:56:53,244 --> 00:56:54,264
time and space.
1047
00:56:54,764 --> 00:56:57,508
Some girlfriends experience it as me being
1048
00:56:57,556 --> 00:57:02,144
avoidant with them and in some ways I believe
that this is the pharisees.
1049
00:57:02,724 --> 00:57:08,236
In others it never fit, but it didn't have the
language or awareness to realize that if I
1050
00:57:08,260 --> 00:57:13,292
don't have a few hours each day that are just
mine where I don't have to hear someone else's
1051
00:57:13,348 --> 00:57:20,092
breathing, I get dysregulated and I need to
conjure up the energy and confidence to go out
1052
00:57:20,108 --> 00:57:23,484
and spend time with people that I care about
outside of my home.
1053
00:57:23,604 --> 00:57:27,572
But then I need to go home afterwards and
sleep, sometimes for the rest of the day.
1054
00:57:27,748 --> 00:57:33,784
A few people understand this and don't take it
personally or completely understand how or why
1055
00:57:34,084 --> 00:57:40,104
could be experienced as I must be exhausting
to you, or why don't you want to be around me?
1056
00:57:40,284 --> 00:57:45,424
But it's literally impossible for me to handle
the extra stimuli from social interactions
1057
00:57:45,504 --> 00:57:46,764
after a certain point.
1058
00:57:48,464 --> 00:57:50,976
I'm only beginning now at the age of 40 to
1059
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:57,512
reflect on all of the ways that autism is
affecting me and figure out how to reframe all
1060
00:57:57,528 --> 00:58:05,524
the guilt and the shame that I've carried for
my whole life and.
1061
00:58:06,344 --> 00:58:09,152
And that is that.
1062
00:58:09,208 --> 00:58:11,016
There's actually another example that I
1063
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:11,536
missed.
1064
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:13,536
But I want to briefly touch on this because
1065
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,600
it's a very long and involved story.
1066
00:58:16,632 --> 00:58:17,568
Leah: I have a lot of thoughts.
1067
00:58:17,616 --> 00:58:18,560
Moshe: So what are your thoughts?
1068
00:58:18,632 --> 00:58:22,192
Leah: My first thought is, one of the credos
that I live by is when someone tells you who
1069
00:58:22,208 --> 00:58:23,936
they are, believe them the first time.
1070
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,320
And I think his entire comment can actually be
1071
00:58:27,352 --> 00:58:31,976
summarized into if I don't have a few hours a
day that are just mine, where I don't have to
1072
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,174
hear another human being breathe, then I get
dysregulated.
1073
00:58:35,954 --> 00:58:40,330
I honestly think that is the succinct
description of who this person is at this
1074
00:58:40,362 --> 00:58:40,666
moment.
1075
00:58:40,730 --> 00:58:42,786
It doesn't mean that they can't have ot or
1076
00:58:42,810 --> 00:58:45,214
some sort of therapy or change if they want
to.
1077
00:58:45,634 --> 00:58:47,574
The operative word is want to.
1078
00:58:48,114 --> 00:58:50,706
If they don't want to, then this is clearly a
1079
00:58:50,730 --> 00:58:55,210
person that should not be in a marriage with
children and put themselves in that kind of
1080
00:58:55,242 --> 00:58:58,094
situation because they can't currently handle
that.
1081
00:58:58,794 --> 00:59:00,416
So they should be up with.
1082
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,208
I would like a romantic relationship, but I
1083
00:59:02,216 --> 00:59:05,400
would like one where we have separate houses
and we're really not that close and that
1084
00:59:05,432 --> 00:59:08,776
actually is okay, but you have to find another
person who's willing to do that.
1085
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:09,336
Moshe: Right.
1086
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,888
Leah: I'm going to go ahead and say this wife
didn't really expect that kind of relationship
1087
00:59:12,936 --> 00:59:15,856
when she married him, moved into the house
with him with two children.
1088
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:16,792
Moshe: Right.
1089
00:59:16,968 --> 00:59:19,384
Leah: So they're sort of mismatched in that
way.
1090
00:59:19,464 --> 00:59:25,188
And I think he needs to be honest with either
this spouse or any future relationships.
1091
00:59:25,376 --> 00:59:27,276
That that is who he currently is.
1092
00:59:27,420 --> 00:59:28,104
Moshe: Right.
1093
00:59:29,324 --> 00:59:32,716
Leah: Having said that, you used to do the
thing where you would cloister yourself in the
1094
00:59:32,740 --> 00:59:37,700
room all the time on your phone, looking up
things that interested you or whatever, or
1095
00:59:37,732 --> 00:59:42,620
napping or whatever it was that you were doing
while everybody was doing stuff around you.
1096
00:59:42,812 --> 00:59:48,596
But the ironic thing and the disjointed thing
and the thing that didn't make sense there was
1097
00:59:48,620 --> 00:59:52,172
that you would then complain to me, why do the
kids always go to you?
1098
00:59:52,228 --> 00:59:55,964
Why do they see you as their only parent and
I'm not their parent?
1099
00:59:56,584 --> 01:00:01,944
Why does nobody hang out with me?
Why am I never involved in family things?
1100
01:00:02,064 --> 01:00:06,720
And my only answer to you was because your
default is you lie down in the bedroom and you
1101
01:00:06,752 --> 01:00:07,792
never come out.
1102
01:00:07,968 --> 01:00:08,664
Moshe: Right.
1103
01:00:08,824 --> 01:00:13,928
Leah: So that was the thing that I think you
had to decide and you had to work on because
1104
01:00:13,976 --> 01:00:18,604
we were in much more stressful situations than
we had been now in the home environment.
1105
01:00:19,484 --> 01:00:24,316
But that sort of left you, I don't know, like
impotent in your role as the father and
1106
01:00:24,340 --> 01:00:24,876
husband.
1107
01:00:24,980 --> 01:00:25,268
Moshe: Right.
1108
01:00:25,316 --> 01:00:30,940
Leah: And it also put all of the child rearing
and household tasks on me because you're
1109
01:00:30,972 --> 01:00:32,864
basically working and then shutting off.
1110
01:00:33,524 --> 01:00:33,884
Moshe: Right.
1111
01:00:33,924 --> 01:00:35,252
Leah: So you brought in money, but.
1112
01:00:35,388 --> 01:00:37,236
And it wasn't even what you wanted to be
1113
01:00:37,260 --> 01:00:37,444
doing.
1114
01:00:37,484 --> 01:00:39,844
But I think maybe you didn't know any
1115
01:00:39,884 --> 01:00:40,300
different.
1116
01:00:40,412 --> 01:00:42,264
Moshe: Yeah. To not do it.
1117
01:00:43,164 --> 01:00:45,252
Leah: So that struck me.
1118
01:00:45,308 --> 01:00:46,956
You did that, but that didn't work for us at
1119
01:00:46,980 --> 01:00:47,590
all.
1120
01:00:47,772 --> 01:00:54,026
Moshe: No, because that's great if you're
single with someone and they're okay with
1121
01:00:54,050 --> 01:00:54,666
that.
1122
01:00:54,850 --> 01:00:59,014
Leah: Yeah. A non committal relationship
sounds like it might be good for this person.
1123
01:00:59,514 --> 01:01:06,226
Moshe: So if you are at a point now where you
need to be alone so that you don't have to
1124
01:01:06,250 --> 01:01:14,226
hear other people breathing, then maybe a
family role where you're effectively, like a
1125
01:01:14,250 --> 01:01:18,166
fraternal figure, is not necessarily the best
role for you.
1126
01:01:18,270 --> 01:01:20,254
Leah: And again, he said guilt shame.
1127
01:01:20,374 --> 01:01:22,238
He shouldn't have any guilt, shame or anything
1128
01:01:22,286 --> 01:01:22,926
about it.
1129
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:25,798
He should just admit where he's at and then
1130
01:01:25,846 --> 01:01:29,246
not drag somebody else into it that isn't
prepared for it.
1131
01:01:29,390 --> 01:01:30,074
Moshe: Right.
1132
01:01:31,614 --> 01:01:38,670
So the situation that we were that I didn't do
1133
01:01:38,822 --> 01:01:44,760
is actually a really good segue into the final
thoughts portion of this, because it talks
1134
01:01:44,792 --> 01:01:47,816
about the concept of response indicators.
1135
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,000
And this is a conversation that you and I have
1136
01:01:50,032 --> 01:01:55,240
discussed, and I almost feel like it deserves
its own episode, because what a lot of people
1137
01:01:55,312 --> 01:02:03,336
don't always understand about autistics is
that a lot of the time, they're not able to
1138
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:08,504
read social cues, which can lead to them not
being aware of how they're supposed to respond
1139
01:02:08,584 --> 01:02:09,178
to certain things.
1140
01:02:09,216 --> 01:02:09,846
Things.
1141
01:02:10,030 --> 01:02:15,990
And Leah and I have fallen into this trap a
lot of the time where she will express
1142
01:02:16,062 --> 01:02:17,038
something to me.
1143
01:02:17,166 --> 01:02:19,494
I won't give her the reaction she was hoping
1144
01:02:19,534 --> 01:02:22,914
for, and it'll actually end up making her
upset.
1145
01:02:23,334 --> 01:02:25,638
And it.
1146
01:02:25,726 --> 01:02:31,086
It seems to me like this is something that can
1147
01:02:31,110 --> 01:02:37,482
be easily rectified by providing what, what's
called in this story that they shared with me
1148
01:02:37,498 --> 01:02:45,410
is a response indicator, and it can have to do
with, number one, the time and the place to
1149
01:02:45,442 --> 01:02:46,610
have this discussion.
1150
01:02:46,762 --> 01:02:50,066
Like, I'm really in the need to vent right
1151
01:02:50,090 --> 01:02:50,658
now.
1152
01:02:50,826 --> 01:02:52,626
Are we at a place right now where I can have
1153
01:02:52,650 --> 01:02:59,410
the time to do that, yes or no?
Or if we're not, I need to vent to you right
1154
01:02:59,442 --> 01:03:07,630
now, but you don't have to respond into later,
or I want to put aside some time later to vent
1155
01:03:07,662 --> 01:03:15,926
if you don't have time right now, and it can
lead to the appropriate reaction, because it
1156
01:03:15,950 --> 01:03:21,014
sounds kind of silly to think about, but I've
told Leah a lot of my issues are I don't
1157
01:03:21,054 --> 01:03:26,558
actually know what I'm expected to do in the
situation, and it can be, I need to talk to
1158
01:03:26,566 --> 01:03:28,528
you about something that really bothered me
today.
1159
01:03:28,686 --> 01:03:30,660
I don't need you to do anything about it.
1160
01:03:30,692 --> 01:03:34,812
I just want to talk to you about it or the
1161
01:03:34,828 --> 01:03:35,828
emotion involved.
1162
01:03:35,956 --> 01:03:38,284
This thing that happened today really upset
1163
01:03:38,324 --> 01:03:44,292
me, and I want to talk to you about it, and I
want to hear your reaction to it, because if I
1164
01:03:44,348 --> 01:03:53,316
know how something affected you, then it will
help me to understand how it should affect me
1165
01:03:53,420 --> 01:03:53,660
now.
1166
01:03:53,692 --> 01:03:55,380
That's not to say that I need to mirror your
1167
01:03:55,412 --> 01:04:03,346
emotions, but knowing your emotion helps me to
understand where I should go with this.
1168
01:04:03,450 --> 01:04:05,954
For example, this is really upsetting to you.
1169
01:04:06,074 --> 01:04:08,146
I don't understand why this is upsetting to
1170
01:04:08,170 --> 01:04:08,498
you.
1171
01:04:08,586 --> 01:04:10,410
When you told me about it, it didn't make me
1172
01:04:10,442 --> 01:04:11,250
feel upset.
1173
01:04:11,362 --> 01:04:13,570
Maybe tell me why it's upsetting you so I can
1174
01:04:13,602 --> 01:04:14,730
understand better.
1175
01:04:14,802 --> 01:04:15,994
Leah: Yeah, so that's good.
1176
01:04:16,034 --> 01:04:18,418
But also in terms of response indicators, I
1177
01:04:18,426 --> 01:04:21,234
think more just for the audience to
understand.
1178
01:04:21,314 --> 01:04:26,282
What you mean is it's a preamble before you
discuss something difficult or really at all.
1179
01:04:26,378 --> 01:04:26,610
Right.
1180
01:04:26,642 --> 01:04:28,570
So for you, a really important response
1181
01:04:28,602 --> 01:04:31,746
indicator, especially for me, is I'm really
upset.
1182
01:04:31,810 --> 01:04:34,210
It's not you, you didn't do anything.
1183
01:04:34,282 --> 01:04:36,026
This isn't a relationship thing that we have
1184
01:04:36,050 --> 01:04:36,554
to work out.
1185
01:04:36,594 --> 01:04:36,994
Moshe: Exactly.
1186
01:04:37,034 --> 01:04:38,770
Leah: I'm upset about someone else.
1187
01:04:38,922 --> 01:04:41,042
So that puts you in the right head space to do
1188
01:04:41,058 --> 01:04:43,410
the whole listening, oh, poor baby, come here,
kiss, kiss thing.
1189
01:04:43,442 --> 01:04:46,202
I mean, it doesn't do anything, but it makes
me feel a lot better.
1190
01:04:46,338 --> 01:04:50,146
Or sometimes you'll give me a perspective that
I didn't have and actually helped me solve the
1191
01:04:50,250 --> 01:04:52,090
problem or, you know.
1192
01:04:52,162 --> 01:04:57,154
Moshe: Whatever, because it's very hard if
you're explaining a problem to your partner
1193
01:04:57,274 --> 01:05:00,746
and looking for a response that you're not
getting.
1194
01:05:00,930 --> 01:05:04,810
So if you were to say, I want to talk to you
about this thing, you don't have to do
1195
01:05:04,842 --> 01:05:05,786
anything about it.
1196
01:05:05,890 --> 01:05:09,018
I just want to talk to you about it, or I want
1197
01:05:09,026 --> 01:05:12,934
to talk about this experience that I had and I
want to get your opinion about.
1198
01:05:13,514 --> 01:05:16,996
Because sometimes if you tell me something and
you don't tell me what you're looking for,
1199
01:05:17,130 --> 01:05:19,524
I'll give you an opinion that you don't want.
1200
01:05:20,144 --> 01:05:21,920
I don't need your opinion on this.
1201
01:05:21,952 --> 01:05:27,648
I just really want you to know that this is a
thing, or I told you this thing and you were
1202
01:05:27,656 --> 01:05:33,000
just like, wow, and then walked away and you
didn't, like, you didn't do anything up with
1203
01:05:33,032 --> 01:05:33,680
it.
1204
01:05:33,872 --> 01:05:34,984
I wanted your opinion.
1205
01:05:35,024 --> 01:05:36,672
I wanted to hear what you thought.
1206
01:05:36,848 --> 01:05:39,936
But if you give the response indicator, I'll
1207
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:40,144
know.
1208
01:05:40,184 --> 01:05:42,004
Okay, so you're saying a thing.
1209
01:05:42,444 --> 01:05:46,700
You'll, you're telling me how it's making you
feel and you're telling me what the response
1210
01:05:46,732 --> 01:05:48,068
you're looking for is.
1211
01:05:48,236 --> 01:05:50,596
You want me to give you my opinion.
1212
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:52,812
You want me to try and come up with a
solution.
1213
01:05:52,948 --> 01:05:56,612
You want me to not do anything with it and
just listen to you.
1214
01:05:56,628 --> 01:05:59,828
Leah: Then the one that you had the most
trouble with and you're, you're still working
1215
01:05:59,876 --> 01:06:04,052
on it, but you're getting better is when I'm
angry at something, I want you to be angry at
1216
01:06:04,068 --> 01:06:04,380
it too.
1217
01:06:04,412 --> 01:06:05,932
You honestly could not care less.
1218
01:06:05,988 --> 01:06:08,964
But I'm like, this person said that thing,
that's awful.
1219
01:06:09,124 --> 01:06:11,660
And if you're like, mmm, that'll make me
angrier.
1220
01:06:11,692 --> 01:06:13,212
But if you're like, yeah, that's terrible.
1221
01:06:13,268 --> 01:06:15,580
Even if you don't mean it, it helps me.
1222
01:06:15,732 --> 01:06:19,332
It's one of those, I think, neurotypical
things that doesn't necessarily make sense to
1223
01:06:19,348 --> 01:06:20,028
a neurotypical.
1224
01:06:20,076 --> 01:06:21,332
Moshe: Yeah, that was fuckle.
1225
01:06:21,388 --> 01:06:22,964
Leah: Yeah, that person was terrible.
1226
01:06:23,044 --> 01:06:24,164
They need to not.
1227
01:06:24,284 --> 01:06:27,384
And then I'm like, you get me and it just
makes me feel better.
1228
01:06:27,844 --> 01:06:28,584
Right?
1229
01:06:29,164 --> 01:06:32,676
Moshe: So those are perfectly understandable
and things you can work on.
1230
01:06:32,820 --> 01:06:36,156
If you're in a relationship with your partner
and you're talking to your partner all the
1231
01:06:36,180 --> 01:06:40,704
time and they're like, hmm, anyway, I'm gonna
go do another thing.
1232
01:06:40,864 --> 01:06:46,240
Then instead of getting upset at them, maybe
you have a talk with them about a response
1233
01:06:46,272 --> 01:06:47,032
indicator.
1234
01:06:47,208 --> 01:06:51,904
When you didn't express the emotion that I was
1235
01:06:51,944 --> 01:06:55,352
expressing to you or understand it, it really
hurt me.
1236
01:06:55,528 --> 01:07:01,528
In the future, when I talk to you about these
sorts of things, I will let you know how I'm
1237
01:07:01,576 --> 01:07:02,760
feeling about it.
1238
01:07:02,912 --> 01:07:07,136
And if I'm looking for a response, what I'm
1239
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:12,024
kind of looking for, not so that, you know,
like, you know, I don't want you to like,
1240
01:07:12,144 --> 01:07:16,364
parrot things to me, but I genuinely want you
to react.
1241
01:07:16,984 --> 01:07:22,600
And if you are upset by it, as I expected you
should be, then act upset.
1242
01:07:22,752 --> 01:07:28,484
Or if I'm really sad because you gave me some
really sad news, go, oh, no, that's terrible.
1243
01:07:28,784 --> 01:07:29,880
Don't go, wow.
1244
01:07:29,992 --> 01:07:31,724
Anyway, and then walk away.
1245
01:07:32,344 --> 01:07:33,564
Final thoughts.
1246
01:07:33,864 --> 01:07:36,448
I wrote down a couple of things, one of which
1247
01:07:36,536 --> 01:07:38,684
is inrow eight.
1248
01:07:42,584 --> 01:07:47,484
One of those things is setting a boundary.
1249
01:07:49,744 --> 01:08:00,104
Setting a boundary in a relationship is really
important because if you let the partner know
1250
01:08:00,804 --> 01:08:07,704
what isn't, isn't reasonable for you, going
back to reasonable, reasonable, then you know
1251
01:08:10,284 --> 01:08:11,384
where they are.
1252
01:08:19,404 --> 01:08:20,784
You know where they are.
1253
01:08:21,234 --> 01:08:26,694
And it's very, it sets the standards.
1254
01:08:27,154 --> 01:08:34,690
So in those instances, it is key to the health
1255
01:08:34,722 --> 01:08:35,894
of the relationship.
1256
01:08:37,034 --> 01:08:39,634
I really need a partner who's going to escort
1257
01:08:39,674 --> 01:08:45,414
me out of social situations whenever I feel
overwhelmed, is a discussion.
1258
01:08:45,794 --> 01:08:51,366
I really need a partner who is going to help
me get dressed every morning because I
1259
01:08:51,390 --> 01:08:57,918
struggle with buttons is an expectation, or
I'm very, very oversensitized to sounds.
1260
01:08:58,086 --> 01:09:02,662
So sometimes when I'm in really loud
environments, I get very overstimulated.
1261
01:09:02,758 --> 01:09:06,454
But I want you to let me figure it out on my
own.
1262
01:09:06,574 --> 01:09:09,394
I don't want you to do anything about it.
1263
01:09:09,774 --> 01:09:14,233
And that is also setting a boundary, and that
1264
01:09:14,273 --> 01:09:19,225
sort of leads into the next point, which is to
help people through their issues without
1265
01:09:19,289 --> 01:09:20,613
infantilizing.
1266
01:09:21,313 --> 01:09:24,169
And that just is a callback to the previous,
1267
01:09:24,321 --> 01:09:29,425
to the first situation that I mentioned, where
if you're the caregiver of your partner and
1268
01:09:29,449 --> 01:09:33,641
you're basically the one who, like, takes them
by the hand everywhere, like they would a
1269
01:09:33,657 --> 01:09:39,361
small child, maybe for some people, that's
what they want, but for other people, they
1270
01:09:39,377 --> 01:09:42,137
don't want to feel like they're a baby, I
suppose.
1271
01:09:42,185 --> 01:09:46,793
Leah: But how, I don't really understand how
you can really maintain a romantic
1272
01:09:46,833 --> 01:09:50,333
relationship playing that role.
1273
01:09:50,633 --> 01:09:52,825
And that's a whole other thing that like,
1274
01:09:52,889 --> 01:09:55,137
that's a psychological thing that I don't want
to touch.
1275
01:09:55,185 --> 01:10:00,025
Because if that's your idea of a romantic
relationship, I think you have some, like,
1276
01:10:00,089 --> 01:10:02,613
therapy to do, right?
1277
01:10:03,313 --> 01:10:11,126
Moshe: So in clothing, when you're in a
relationship where one partner is
1278
01:10:11,150 --> 01:10:16,734
neurodivergent and one partner isn't, there's
going to have to be boundaries set on both
1279
01:10:16,774 --> 01:10:17,514
sides.
1280
01:10:17,934 --> 01:10:21,526
There's going to have to be accommodations on
1281
01:10:21,550 --> 01:10:22,510
both sides.
1282
01:10:22,662 --> 01:10:25,270
There's going to have to be expectations on
1283
01:10:25,302 --> 01:10:26,314
both sides.
1284
01:10:26,734 --> 01:10:29,334
But it follows back into that little thread
1285
01:10:29,374 --> 01:10:38,660
that is through our entire podcast, which is
communication, talking about how you feel and
1286
01:10:38,772 --> 01:10:46,264
trying to come up with a solution with your
partner, working it out together instead of
1287
01:10:47,124 --> 01:10:51,716
laying down the lawn saying, this is how I am,
this is what I need, this is what you need to
1288
01:10:51,740 --> 01:10:52,664
do for me.
1289
01:10:53,764 --> 01:10:58,064
It may feel like that sometimes, but as we
1290
01:10:58,104 --> 01:11:05,404
often say, autism is not so much a barrier as
it's an obstacle.
1291
01:11:05,704 --> 01:11:09,644
And it's always going to be something that you
can work through.
1292
01:11:09,944 --> 01:11:15,296
And if you are the kind of person who wants to
be in a romantic relationship and they're at a
1293
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:20,528
position in their life or so they feel where
they're in a romantic relationship with
1294
01:11:20,576 --> 01:11:26,384
responsibilities that come from that, then it
requires working together.
1295
01:11:26,844 --> 01:11:35,180
And there's not a lot of room for
individualistic edicts.
1296
01:11:35,372 --> 01:11:38,436
The old aphorism is there's no I in team.
1297
01:11:38,540 --> 01:11:41,144
And when you're a couple, you're a team.
1298
01:11:41,564 --> 01:11:48,276
And autistic or not, if you're going to have a
partner, you're going to have to learn to work
1299
01:11:48,300 --> 01:11:48,864
together.
1300
01:11:49,584 --> 01:11:54,856
And that is key in setting expectations when
1301
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,204
you're in a relationship.
1302
01:11:56,744 --> 01:11:58,044
Thanks for listening.
1303
01:11:58,824 --> 01:12:00,640
Well, that's our show for today.
1304
01:12:00,792 --> 01:12:03,120
Now, you know when autistic just a little bit
1305
01:12:03,152 --> 01:12:03,724
better.
1306
01:12:04,184 --> 01:12:07,624
So something you may not know about some
1307
01:12:07,664 --> 01:12:13,160
autistics is that we often struggle with
ending social interactions, so.
1308
01:12:13,312 --> 01:12:14,124
Leah.
1309
01:12:14,924 --> 01:12:15,988
Leah: All right, Bonshaw.
1310
01:12:16,036 --> 01:12:17,348
I'll take care of it.
1311
01:12:17,516 --> 01:12:20,396
Thank you for listening to now you know one
autistic.
1312
01:12:20,460 --> 01:12:21,244
See you next week.
Version: 20240731