Episode Title: Is This the Most Honest Talk About Autism and Self-Esteem Ever?

Episode Number: 29

Release Date: November 3, 2024

Duration: 01:11:21

Episode Summary:

In this raw and unfiltered episode of Now You Know One Autistic, hosts Moshe and Leah dive into a candid discussion about autism, self-esteem, and communication. The couple explores Moshe's unique perspective on self-esteem as an autistic individual and how it impacts their relationship. This episode offers listeners a rare glimpse into the challenges and triumphs of neurodivergent communication.

Key Takeaways

  • Self-Esteem in Autism: The episode highlights how self-esteem can be perceived and measured differently by individuals with autism.
  • Personal Growth: Moshe shares his journey of personal growth, emphasizing the importance of setting standards and striving to meet them.
  • Neurodiversity in Relationships: The discussion underscores the importance of open communication and understanding in relationships where neurodiversity is a factor.

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

  • How autism can affect self-esteem and interpersonal relationships
  • The challenges of communicating across neurotypes
  • The impact of childhood experiences on adult behavior and decision-making

Quotes

  • "I'm at a place where... I believe that I'm in maintenance mode." - Moshe
  • "My ability to believe that I am a worthwhile person is based very strongly on my ability to stay close to my values." - Moshe

Resources & Links

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Transcript:

WEBVTT

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<v Music>

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<v Moshe>Hi, I'm Moshe, and I'm autistic.

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<v Leah>I'm Leah, and I'm boring. Welcome to the Now You Know One Autistic podcast.

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<v Moshe>The opinions expressed in this podcast reflect one autistic and one Leah,

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<v Moshe>and don't necessarily reflect the entire autistic community.

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<v Leah>Let's get to it.

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<v Leah>Hi, Leah. Hi, Moshe.

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<v Moshe>How are you?

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<v Leah>I'm okay.

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<v Moshe>It's so wonderful to be back yet again after a couple of weeks.

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<v Leah>I mean, we're sort of back. So I should ask you,

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<v Moshe>How are you?

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<v Leah>Because you're not doing amazingly.

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<v Moshe>No.

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<v Leah>You're not doing terrible. No, I'm not, like,

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<v Moshe>Dying or anything. But, I mean, my health hasn't been, like, phenomenal.

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<v Moshe>But I'm doing okay. Like, today I've been having some breathing issues. but I mean.

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<v Leah>I mean due to other unforeseen circumstances you couldn't get one of the medications

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<v Leah>you need so you're having trouble with attention but you've been doing really well with that yeah

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<v Moshe>Oh that too.

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<v Leah>Well I mean not well I'm sure it's hard for you but you've been outwardly doing okay with

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<v Moshe>It yeah due to circumstances outside of our control I haven't been on my my

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<v Moshe>ADHD meds for you know a few days.

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<v Leah>Yeah it's like three days or so yeah

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<v Moshe>And I mean There's like a bright spot on the horizon, but we just haven't gotten a chance to fill it.

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<v Moshe>So we're doing a show today where I guess you get to experience...

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<v Leah>Unfiltered us.

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<v Moshe>Unfiltered us.

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<v Leah>We're trying a different format because there was something that came up the

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<v Leah>other night, not even last night, but two nights ago. This is how little time we have.

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<v Leah>We didn't even have time to discuss a discussion that we wanted to have.

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<v Leah>And I wanted to discuss it with you and I thought it would make a great topic.

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<v Leah>So I figured let's just cut out the middleman instead of discussing it and then

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<v Leah>formatting it into a show. Let's just discuss it.

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<v Moshe>Right. I mean, the podcast did start originally based off of just discussions

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<v Moshe>that we used to have about our lives together and our experiences.

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<v Moshe>And we were like, we should do a podcast about it.

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<v Leah>So what you're going to hear is one of our raw discussions, meaning,

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<v Leah>you know, I ask Moshe questions based on my desire to understand the way his

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<v Leah>brain works, and then I'm able to support him better.

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<v Leah>He does the same for me, by the way. It does work in reverse.

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<v Leah>I don't want to paint it that it's just a one-way street,

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<v Moshe>But. Of course. We are going to try and get back to a little bit more of a formatted

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<v Moshe>show the way that it were.

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<v Moshe>It were. It were? It was. The way that it were, that'll be edited.

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<v Leah>I mean, different shows will do different things. We'll have some really cool

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<v Leah>guests lined up, and some of them will be more formatted. But I think this conversational...

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<v Leah>Format will be very good for people because they'll get to see sort of behind

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<v Leah>the curtain as to how hard we really do have to work to communicate,

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<v Leah>even though we both speak the same language.

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<v Moshe>Right. So actually, we.

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<v Leah>Both speak multiple of the same languages to each other. Pretty much.

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<v Moshe>So we started the show way back in the middle of last year. Last year? Was it last year?

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<v Leah>We started it like the summertime. I don't know, maybe six months.

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<v Moshe>Was it six months? Maybe. Well, it's last year in terms of the Jewish New Year,

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<v Moshe>but it's still obviously in mid-2024.

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<v Moshe>If you're still listening to this in 2024, it's mid-2024. So when I say last

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<v Moshe>year, I don't mean last year, last year.

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<v Moshe>I mean like last year as far as the lunar calendar goes, which probably doesn't

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<v Moshe>mean a whole lot, but there you go.

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<v Moshe>And when we first started, we really had a plan to focus quite a lot on communication

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<v Moshe>because that seems to be the underlying thread of the majority of our discussions.

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<v Moshe>So we're back to sort of, if you will, the old style format where we're talking

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<v Moshe>about communicating, about communication.

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<v Leah>So what came up the other night, I don't even remember what the context of it

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<v Leah>was, but we disagreed on something.

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<v Leah>So when we disagree, and it's not instantly resolved, which we're getting better

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<v Leah>at, and when it escalates, let's say, I don't want to say a fight,

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<v Leah>but sometimes we do fight, you'll often say this thing to me that I actually never understood.

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<v Leah>You'll say, well, now I have to start from zero.

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<v Leah>And I would often say to you, you're not starting from zero with me,

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<v Leah>like all the good things that you've ever done still count. This is just a disagreement.

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<v Leah>But you were insistent that you had to start from zero.

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<v Leah>And it turns out that you revealed to me that what you were talking about really was your self-esteem.

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<v Leah>So you're measuring your self-esteem in a different way than a lot of people

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<v Leah>do, based on your ability to not disagree with the people in your life and the

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<v Leah>ability to sort of please everyone or be a good boy, I guess,

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<v Leah>if you want to say it that way to everyone.

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<v Leah>And especially me, I'm very centric to that process.

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<v Leah>And apparently you're tracking that, which was interesting to me because I have

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<v Leah>all of that stuff preloaded.

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<v Leah>First of all, I don't measure my self-esteem based on my performance toward other people.

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<v Leah>And I don't feel the need to track it. So would you like to tell me more about that?

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<v Moshe>Sure. So when Lea and I first started our relationship,

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<v Moshe>like not our original relationship, obviously, because we've known each other

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<v Moshe>for 30-odd years, but our romantic relationship, if you will,

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<v Moshe>there was a lot of development that I had to do to get to where I'm at today.

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<v Moshe>And it was putting in place the building blocks in order to understand because

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<v Moshe>we really did have to start from scratch because I had a very difficult childhood

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<v Moshe>and a very difficult teenagehood and a very difficult early adulthood.

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<v Moshe>And in general, it was very much about I needed to learn how to be social.

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<v Moshe>I needed to learn how to communicate my needs. I needed to learn that the issues

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<v Moshe>that are going on in my head are not always coming across to other people.

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<v Moshe>So I had to learn what I had to do in order to communicate properly with not

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<v Moshe>just Leah, but other people.

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<v Moshe>And then I got to a place where I had put in place everything that I felt that

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<v Moshe>I needed in order to be the kind of person that I knew that I wanted to be.

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<v Moshe>So I sort of set a standard for myself that I wanted to maintain.

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<v Moshe>And the closer I got to maintaining that standard, the better I felt about myself.

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<v Moshe>Because rather than not being aware of my actions, I'm now fully aware of my

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<v Moshe>actions and the consequences that they can cause based on my behavior.

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<v Leah>Describe what that standard is.

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<v Moshe>So in general, I had to do a lot of.

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<v Moshe>I mean, some people use the term soul searching, but for me,

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<v Moshe>it was, it was more in depth than that because I, I had to define what I wanted out of life.

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<v Moshe>And if I was willing to take on all of the responsibilities that I thought I

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<v Moshe>was, or if they were just, I think we, we use the term fleeting fancies.

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<v Moshe>And so over the years, we, we really sort of worked on developing what that consisted of.

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<v Leah>Yes, and some things did go

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<v Moshe>By the wayside.

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<v Speaker2>Some things that you

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<v Leah>Thought you wanted were not what you wanted, and we had to put them aside, let's say.

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<v Moshe>We did, because we had to decide what things would be conducive for us to do

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<v Moshe>the things that we wanted to do, or specifically the things that I wanted to do.

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<v Moshe>So we are currently speaking to you from Israel.

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<v Moshe>We weren't always here. We were originally in Canada, as we've talked about

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<v Moshe>before in past episodes.

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<v Moshe>And so we had to make the decision at some point to move to Israel.

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<v Moshe>Now, I don't know if it's something that I've spoken about a lot,

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<v Moshe>mostly I don't think I have because it doesn't have a lot to do with neurodiversity,

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<v Moshe>but just a bit of an insight into me as a person.

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<v Moshe>I've been discussing moving to the Middle East on and off since I was a teenager,

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<v Moshe>and I would have this idea in my head that this is something I wanted to do,

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<v Moshe>and it wasn't really based on too many concrete facts.

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<v Moshe>It was mostly just something that I felt like I was driven to do.

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<v Moshe>I was, I mean, my upbringing was in large part with my mother,

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<v Moshe>but my father's family are, most of them actually live here now in Israel.

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<v Moshe>But my father's family was very pro-Israel.

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<v Leah>I mean, sometimes that is the only driving factor that you need,

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<v Leah>but you have to determine if it's reasonable or not.

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<v Leah>You were brought up in a scenario where you needed to prove evidence for everything.

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<v Leah>Because you had a wealthy family, because your family had a certain social stature

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<v Leah>in the Jewish community of Montreal, you couldn't just say, I want to do something

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<v Leah>because. You had to have a reason.

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<v Leah>So if you said you wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer, everybody would have gotten

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<v Leah>that. But if you said, I want to move to Israel, you'd have to have really concrete reasons.

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<v Leah>And sometimes because my heart moves me is a good enough reason for people because

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<v Leah>it makes me happy is a good enough reason for people. But that was never allowed to be your reason.

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<v Moshe>Great. Now, you see it a lot in the movies and books and whatever,

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<v Moshe>that people will just get this inclination in their mind and then they'll go

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<v Moshe>backpacking through Eastern Asia or something.

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<v Moshe>But I wasn't allowed to do that because even though my mother and my father,

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<v Moshe>and actually my grandparents,

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<v Moshe>except on my father's side, but my mother and my father and my mother's parents

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<v Moshe>and my father's father were born in Canada.

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<v Moshe>But my father's mother and all of my great-grandparents on my mother's side

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<v Moshe>were from Eastern Europe.

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<v Moshe>So they came to Canada from Poland and Lithuania and Hungary and going back

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<v Moshe>generations and generations and generations.

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<v Moshe>So my mother was raised by her parents, who in turn were raised by immigrants.

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<v Leah>Right. Immigrants.

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<v Leah>Don't have time for fleeting fancies. Immigrants don't want to hear about that.

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<v Leah>They want to know how you're going to make money, live, reproduce,

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<v Leah>and let them die peacefully.

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<v Leah>Essentially, immigrant parents are that way.

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<v Moshe>So my great-grandparents, Joseph and Sadie, were their American names or Canadian

00:11:23.728 --> 00:11:28.548
<v Moshe>names, I guess, were my mother's grandparents on her father's side.

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<v Moshe>And Joshua and Tilly were her Canadian names, were their Canadian names on her mother's side.

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<v Moshe>And they were, like Tilly and Joshua and Joseph and Sadie, came from Poland

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<v Moshe>and Lithuania and Hungary.

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<v Moshe>And they made a decision. Like they decided when they were leaving Eastern Europe

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<v Moshe>that they were going to come to Canada. And they were fleeing a variety of things.

00:11:58.888 --> 00:12:04.748
<v Moshe>The Holocaust was happening around that time. Things were going awry in Europe

00:12:04.748 --> 00:12:10.528
<v Moshe>in general, with the pogroms in Russia and the anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe.

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<v Moshe>So they raised their children with this idea that we left a place of lacking

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<v Moshe>and not having enough rights or not having enough food or not having enough

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<v Moshe>opportunity to come to this land of plenty,

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<v Moshe>which was Canada and to a certain extent the States.

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<v Moshe>So when I started talking about, you know, I'd really like to move to Israel.

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<v Moshe>My initial reaction, especially when I was younger, was why would you ever want to go there? Right.

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<v Leah>Because for our listeners who don't know, Israel is still a country that's currently

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<v Leah>being built up. It's not an easy life.

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<v Leah>It's not like North America where everything's already settled for you and there's no conflict.

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<v Leah>And it is a land of plenty. Like life here is good. Don't get me wrong.

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<v Leah>But it's just not the same.

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<v Leah>It's a clearly a young country that's being built up. So if you're already fatigued

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<v Leah>from war and tired and, you know, for generations of lacking,

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<v Leah>if you have the choice in front of you, I'm not sure that I wouldn't have made

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<v Leah>that same choice, to be honest.

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<v Moshe>I mean, it was an idea for me.

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<v Leah>Israel's like a frontier, whereas North America's already built up.

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<v Moshe>It is. Even today, it's still a frontier. And especially back in the 70s and

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<v Moshe>80s, and even going into the 90s, Israel was still very much a country, you know,

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<v Moshe>well, they're called kibbutzim, where if you were coming from away from Israel,

00:13:38.590 --> 00:13:41.490
<v Moshe>you would generally start off on one of the communal farms.

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<v Moshe>And you would plant and you would reap and you would be a farmer and you would

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<v Moshe>be a herder and you would develop the land.

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<v Moshe>You would cut down trees. You would, you know, aquify the soil.

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<v Moshe>You would basically do your part to grow, in every sense of the word, the state of Israel.

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<v Leah>And our ancestors didn't want to do that after suffering in Poland.

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<v Leah>They wanted to open a business and have an easy life. And that's okay.

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<v Leah>There's nothing wrong with that.

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<v Moshe>Right. And my grandfather owned

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<v Moshe>a really successful business in a very metropolitan area of Montreal.

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<v Moshe>And he was like, why would you why would you ever want to go from this wonderful,

00:14:21.950 --> 00:14:29.070
<v Moshe>you know, city of Montreal to, you know, picking dates in.

00:14:29.070 --> 00:14:29.490
<v Speaker2>The middle of

00:14:29.490 --> 00:14:31.130
<v Moshe>The desert? It just doesn't make sense.

00:14:31.130 --> 00:14:34.210
<v Leah>I mean, some people want to pick dates. But anyway, I don't know how we got

00:14:34.210 --> 00:14:36.030
<v Leah>on the subject. We were talking about self-esteem.

00:14:36.410 --> 00:14:40.790
<v Leah>So you wanted to move to Israel and people didn't let you. I think that ties

00:14:40.790 --> 00:14:42.550
<v Leah>back into the self-esteem.

00:14:42.650 --> 00:14:46.010
<v Moshe>Right. And that's kind of where I'm going. Right. I'm taking a bit of the long way.

00:14:46.210 --> 00:14:51.570
<v Moshe>But what it amounted to was I wanted to go to Israel.

00:14:51.750 --> 00:14:58.530
<v Moshe>At the time, my first aspirations actually started in the late 80s, early 90s.

00:14:58.970 --> 00:15:05.650
<v Moshe>We had this yearly, I guess, hike or whatever, like walk around the city called

00:15:05.650 --> 00:15:08.310
<v Moshe>the March to Jerusalem because I went to a Hebrew day school.

00:15:09.010 --> 00:15:13.010
<v Moshe>And I would always say, you know, I think I would like to do the real March

00:15:13.010 --> 00:15:15.370
<v Moshe>to Jerusalem. And they were like, no, no, no, you don't know what you're talking about.

00:15:16.361 --> 00:15:17.861
<v Moshe>And I always came across...

00:15:17.861 --> 00:15:20.621
<v Leah>True, you weren't exactly the kind of kid who you could picture working,

00:15:20.981 --> 00:15:22.381
<v Leah>like picking oranges for a living.

00:15:22.701 --> 00:15:31.361
<v Moshe>Yeah, I mean, we live in Jerusalem now, and it's the second decade, I guess, of the 2000s.

00:15:31.881 --> 00:15:36.961
<v Moshe>Jerusalem is, for the most part, a very built-up city. A lot of cities in Israel are.

00:15:37.261 --> 00:15:42.521
<v Moshe>There are still, like, kibbutzes, but it's not the norm. And a lot of cities

00:15:42.521 --> 00:15:47.121
<v Moshe>in Israel are huge, bustling communities of millions of people.

00:15:47.461 --> 00:15:48.961
<v Moshe>Well, at least a million people.

00:15:49.081 --> 00:15:53.561
<v Leah>I mean, yeah, we went to Tel Aviv a couple of weeks ago and it was really busy

00:15:53.561 --> 00:15:55.721
<v Leah>even for us. We were not used to that anymore.

00:15:55.861 --> 00:16:00.001
<v Moshe>But when you're talking about the Israel of the 70s and 80s,

00:16:00.441 --> 00:16:03.581
<v Moshe>you're thinking of, I mean, your mother was here.

00:16:03.821 --> 00:16:08.361
<v Leah>And she loved it. And she worked on a farm. And she worked. She said when she

00:16:08.361 --> 00:16:12.901
<v Leah>got back, first of all, when she was here, she dehydrated several times and she was sick.

00:16:13.261 --> 00:16:17.221
<v Leah>And she had to put mineral pellets in her water just to keep her going.

00:16:17.621 --> 00:16:22.041
<v Leah>And then when she got back, I think she weighed like 119 pounds and she was

00:16:22.041 --> 00:16:23.961
<v Leah>brown from head to toe. She worked.

00:16:24.381 --> 00:16:29.441
<v Moshe>Well, I mean, she was a very hard worker. Still is to a certain extent.

00:16:30.121 --> 00:16:35.361
<v Moshe>But how this ties back into self-esteem for me was I always had this aspiration

00:16:35.361 --> 00:16:36.741
<v Moshe>of wanting to move to Israel.

00:16:37.301 --> 00:16:41.101
<v Moshe>And that was kind of my core thing. And I don't know if you know anything about

00:16:41.101 --> 00:16:45.481
<v Moshe>autism or, you know, whatever, but it was a hyper focus. I would talk about

00:16:45.481 --> 00:16:46.421
<v Moshe>Israel, I'd go to Israel.

00:16:46.941 --> 00:16:51.501
<v Moshe>Whenever I would visit my grandmother, my father's mother, we would talk about Israel all the time.

00:16:51.501 --> 00:16:56.561
<v Moshe>She would tell me about all the stories about how they went to Israel in the

00:16:56.561 --> 00:17:00.261
<v Moshe>early parts of the 40s and 50s, soon after independence,

00:17:00.661 --> 00:17:06.561
<v Moshe>and saw the communities that were devastated by the Independence War and the

00:17:06.561 --> 00:17:08.441
<v Moshe>Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur War.

00:17:08.761 --> 00:17:15.801
<v Moshe>So that was the Israel that they told me, and they spoke of a place of bravery

00:17:15.801 --> 00:17:19.921
<v Moshe>and heroism and people who fought to get what they wanted.

00:17:19.921 --> 00:17:26.921
<v Moshe>Whereas my mother saw it as a place of war and terrorism and my father was never

00:17:26.921 --> 00:17:31.661
<v Moshe>really a big fan of israel and my mother was never really a big fan of israel

00:17:31.661 --> 00:17:35.341
<v Moshe>so it wasn't really something that they took seriously so they're like yeah

00:17:35.341 --> 00:17:38.021
<v Moshe>yeah whatever tell me another one but.

00:17:38.021 --> 00:17:39.801
<v Leah>There's a hyper focus and then there's a hyper

00:17:39.801 --> 00:17:41.661
<v Moshe>Focus autistics.

00:17:41.661 --> 00:17:48.281
<v Leah>In general i find get what you would consider a hyperfocus a lot,

00:17:48.481 --> 00:17:52.301
<v Leah>but there are some hyperfocuses that are core to the person.

00:17:52.661 --> 00:17:57.381
<v Leah>So for example, Avram with art, he's never not going to be focused on art. No, of course.

00:17:57.721 --> 00:18:01.421
<v Leah>You know, another person that we know I won't mention by name with technology,

00:18:02.041 --> 00:18:07.241
<v Leah>he's never not going to be able to, you know, pull apart machine parts and build them.

00:18:08.188 --> 00:18:13.208
<v Speaker2>For you, it was literally religion and the Israel thing was your core thing.

00:18:13.368 --> 00:18:19.028
<v Leah>But how could people separate that from your extreme interest in rodents and

00:18:19.028 --> 00:18:22.708
<v Leah>dogs and animals and, I don't know,

00:18:23.068 --> 00:18:27.868
<v Leah>video games to a certain extent, that you would hyper-focus with the same intensity,

00:18:28.068 --> 00:18:30.768
<v Leah>but then sort of whatever, they'd go away one day.

00:18:31.008 --> 00:18:34.528
<v Leah>So why would they think that this interest wouldn't necessarily go away one

00:18:34.528 --> 00:18:36.648
<v Leah>day or that you wouldn't get off the plane and be like, yeah, no.

00:18:37.228 --> 00:18:41.368
<v Moshe>Well, and that's exactly it. I wasn't exactly somebody who, you know,

00:18:41.588 --> 00:18:43.848
<v Moshe>stuck to a couple of things that were really important to me.

00:18:43.908 --> 00:18:47.708
<v Moshe>And that's it. I kind of ended up as a jack of all trades. I tried this.

00:18:47.788 --> 00:18:49.608
<v Moshe>I tried that. It didn't work out. It didn't work out.

00:18:49.708 --> 00:18:52.008
<v Moshe>It didn't work out. When I was younger, I wanted to be a cardiologist.

00:18:52.008 --> 00:18:53.148
<v Moshe>And then I wanted to be a teacher.

00:18:53.508 --> 00:18:56.028
<v Moshe>And they're like, here he goes again, talking about this thing.

00:18:56.168 --> 00:18:59.168
<v Leah>I mean, you would have been a good teacher. It just didn't work out,

00:18:59.248 --> 00:19:01.088
<v Leah>like, educationally wise for you.

00:19:01.088 --> 00:19:06.928
<v Moshe>But I also had a hard time like moving forward on what I wanted to do,

00:19:07.128 --> 00:19:12.748
<v Moshe>which again, people can't be faulted for hearing this guy talking about moving

00:19:12.748 --> 00:19:15.548
<v Moshe>to the Middle East all the time and then just not doing it.

00:19:15.868 --> 00:19:17.868
<v Moshe>You know, like clearly he doesn't really want to go that much.

00:19:18.008 --> 00:19:21.888
<v Moshe>But I knew that I wanted to. I just didn't know how to make it happen.

00:19:22.268 --> 00:19:26.688
<v Moshe>And anytime I asked how to make it happen, I was told not to.

00:19:27.128 --> 00:19:31.788
<v Leah>So how does that roll into self-esteem, though? Or what self-esteem looks like for you?

00:19:32.468 --> 00:19:35.868
<v Leah>Because it turns out self-esteem, much like a lot of other things for you,

00:19:36.008 --> 00:19:38.968
<v Leah>are on analog. They're not actually preloaded and automatic.

00:19:39.628 --> 00:19:46.688
<v Moshe>Right. Because, unfortunately, because I wasn't given any survival skills to

00:19:46.688 --> 00:19:48.568
<v Moshe>the extent that I needed to when I was younger,

00:19:49.708 --> 00:19:56.208
<v Moshe>I had these desires in my mind, whether they were to move to Israel or whether

00:19:56.208 --> 00:20:00.668
<v Moshe>they were to, you know, be observant in my faith or whether they were to,

00:20:01.308 --> 00:20:04.308
<v Moshe>you know, be a teacher or, you know, take up music.

00:20:04.308 --> 00:20:06.588
<v Moshe>I always wanted to learn how to play the piano.

00:20:06.848 --> 00:20:11.348
<v Moshe>But the thing is, I knew that I wanted to do something. I just didn't know how to make it happen.

00:20:12.108 --> 00:20:17.468
<v Moshe>And I was surrounded by people for a long time that were very discouraging with

00:20:17.468 --> 00:20:19.908
<v Moshe>you being an exception and other people were.

00:20:20.628 --> 00:20:25.728
<v Moshe>So whether it was too difficult for them or they didn't have the time or they

00:20:25.728 --> 00:20:30.448
<v Moshe>didn't have the patience, or it just involved a lot of, you know,

00:20:31.688 --> 00:20:37.768
<v Moshe>extra steps that my mind, being that it was what it was, was like,

00:20:37.868 --> 00:20:40.268
<v Moshe>this seems very complicated. Maybe it's not worth doing.

00:20:40.568 --> 00:20:43.508
<v Moshe>And I still struggle with the whole, I want to do it.

00:20:43.608 --> 00:20:49.328
<v Moshe>It's important to me, but it's, It requires me to do something, and that's a lot.

00:20:50.165 --> 00:20:54.905
<v Moshe>And I hate that. That's the one part of me that I resent and that I'm fighting

00:20:54.905 --> 00:20:56.945
<v Moshe>against is the it's too hard.

00:20:57.145 --> 00:21:00.925
<v Leah>Right. You still do that. Yes. And sometimes for really simple things,

00:21:01.025 --> 00:21:04.145
<v Leah>but I guess just sort of gathering the steps or whatever.

00:21:04.365 --> 00:21:09.965
<v Moshe>But you had to learn that about me. You had to learn that when I said I wanted

00:21:09.965 --> 00:21:13.645
<v Moshe>to do something and that I didn't do it, it didn't mean that I didn't actually

00:21:13.645 --> 00:21:17.525
<v Moshe>want to do it all the time. It meant that I didn't know how to get started.

00:21:17.525 --> 00:21:20.645
<v Leah>You and I have a lot of flowcharts, actually, now that I think about it.

00:21:20.745 --> 00:21:24.485
<v Leah>So when you want to do something, it now has to pass a flowchart.

00:21:24.665 --> 00:21:27.185
<v Leah>The first thing is, do I want to do it?

00:21:27.665 --> 00:21:30.985
<v Leah>And if I don't want to do it, then it goes to, am I willing to do it for you?

00:21:31.105 --> 00:21:33.885
<v Leah>And then if it doesn't pass those two things, we just toss it out.

00:21:34.125 --> 00:21:34.485
<v Moshe>Exactly.

00:21:34.485 --> 00:21:39.825
<v Leah>But then if it passes one of those then we say well why do you want to do it

00:21:39.825 --> 00:21:41.905
<v Leah>how long term are we going to do it

00:21:41.905 --> 00:21:42.625
<v Speaker2>How much work

00:21:42.625 --> 00:21:45.625
<v Leah>Is it going to be for you and then how much extra work

00:21:45.625 --> 00:21:50.605
<v Leah>and splashback is that going to be for me when you inevitably can't necessarily

00:21:50.605 --> 00:21:55.605
<v Leah>organize yourself like there's a huge flow chart of things before we decide

00:21:55.605 --> 00:22:00.265
<v Leah>that we're going to do a thing because as Moshe expressed he used to just like

00:22:00.265 --> 00:22:04.145
<v Leah>throw spaghetti at a wall and see what sticks today I want to buy a new dog,

00:22:04.265 --> 00:22:05.105
<v Leah>I'm going to go buy a new dog.

00:22:05.345 --> 00:22:08.905
<v Leah>And then no idea how to like, walk them or take care of them or how he's going

00:22:08.905 --> 00:22:10.145
<v Leah>to pay for vet bills, for example.

00:22:10.445 --> 00:22:13.125
<v Leah>So now everything has to sort of pass a flowchart.

00:22:13.425 --> 00:22:17.825
<v Moshe>Right. So kind of getting back on topic a little bit.

00:22:18.645 --> 00:22:26.985
<v Moshe>For me, it was once I had put aside all of these, you know, all this layer of

00:22:26.985 --> 00:22:31.185
<v Moshe>crap that was in my head about things that people told me that I wanted,

00:22:31.485 --> 00:22:34.485
<v Moshe>told me that I liked, told me that I needed to do.

00:22:34.885 --> 00:22:40.325
<v Moshe>And sort of dug all the way to the bottom back to where I was still there.

00:22:40.765 --> 00:22:44.305
<v Moshe>We had to figure out what are the things that you want? What are the things

00:22:44.305 --> 00:22:47.025
<v Moshe>that you like? What are the things that make you happy?

00:22:47.978 --> 00:22:56.058
<v Moshe>And I had to get to the point where I decided that it was very important for me to be with you.

00:22:56.458 --> 00:23:03.258
<v Moshe>And when it was clear that you also wanted to be with me years and years and

00:23:03.258 --> 00:23:08.858
<v Moshe>years later, I then had to switch to how am I going to make this work?

00:23:09.318 --> 00:23:15.698
<v Moshe>Because, again, much like with Israel and with learning a musical instrument

00:23:15.698 --> 00:23:22.758
<v Moshe>or other things, I knew what I wanted. I just didn't know how to do the things that made it possible.

00:23:22.998 --> 00:23:25.258
<v Leah>As I was in Moshe's words, very difficult.

00:23:25.818 --> 00:23:27.578
<v Moshe>Meaning, in realistic terms.

00:23:27.758 --> 00:23:32.258
<v Leah>I was just a normal, regular woman in my 40s who wanted normal, regular woman things.

00:23:32.518 --> 00:23:32.718
<v Moshe>Right.

00:23:32.998 --> 00:23:38.178
<v Leah>That somebody who's, like, grown up wants. And the reason why that was such

00:23:38.178 --> 00:23:41.998
<v Leah>a shock for him is because other people in his life before that were really low-hanging fruit.

00:23:42.718 --> 00:23:45.738
<v Leah>Unfortunately. By design. It's not their fault. Well, by design,

00:23:45.858 --> 00:23:49.338
<v Leah>you seek to have people who are easy or simple or didn't care very much so you

00:23:49.338 --> 00:23:50.598
<v Leah>don't have to perform very much.

00:23:51.598 --> 00:23:55.698
<v Moshe>So I wanted to be with you. And much like learning a musical instrument,

00:23:55.958 --> 00:23:57.878
<v Moshe>I couldn't just sit down at a piano and play.

00:23:58.038 --> 00:24:03.058
<v Moshe>Some autistics have that. I unfortunately was not born with that super talent.

00:24:03.218 --> 00:24:07.778
<v Moshe>I was born with a love of flags and other useless traits.

00:24:07.778 --> 00:24:14.378
<v Moshe>But the thing that it occurred very quickly to me was that I absolutely wanted

00:24:14.378 --> 00:24:20.138
<v Moshe>to be in a relationship with you, but I didn't know how. I didn't know how to share.

00:24:20.378 --> 00:24:22.778
<v Moshe>I didn't know how to compromise.

00:24:23.398 --> 00:24:29.078
<v Moshe>I didn't know how to allow my interests to once in a while take a backseat to

00:24:29.078 --> 00:24:32.278
<v Moshe>what you wanted. Because if you weren't doing what I wanted all the time,

00:24:32.438 --> 00:24:35.898
<v Moshe>then you didn't care about me. If you weren't listening to everything that I

00:24:35.898 --> 00:24:38.198
<v Moshe>told you, then you didn't care about me.

00:24:38.398 --> 00:24:47.098
<v Moshe>And I really started from a position of what oftentimes people in Ghana or in

00:24:47.098 --> 00:24:50.878
<v Moshe>like the early or kindergarten or the early parts of elementary school struggle with.

00:24:51.238 --> 00:24:57.318
<v Moshe>Okay, now it's your turn. Now you have to, you know, now you need to stop talking and let them talk.

00:24:57.598 --> 00:25:00.518
<v Moshe>No, they want to play with your toys.

00:25:00.778 --> 00:25:03.338
<v Moshe>It doesn't mean that you don't get to play with your toys later.

00:25:03.438 --> 00:25:09.558
<v Moshe>But now you get to play their games. You get to play with their toys.

00:25:10.238 --> 00:25:15.198
<v Moshe>You know, the whole idea that I wasn't invalidated as a human being because

00:25:15.198 --> 00:25:19.358
<v Moshe>you wanted to go to a restaurant that you liked or that you wanted to do something

00:25:19.358 --> 00:25:22.798
<v Moshe>that you were interested in or that you wanted to talk about something that

00:25:22.798 --> 00:25:23.978
<v Moshe>you needed to talk about.

00:25:24.218 --> 00:25:29.598
<v Moshe>If I wasn't the focus of every aspect of our life and you weren't doing exactly

00:25:29.598 --> 00:25:34.318
<v Moshe>what I say, then you clearly didn't care about me. And that is exactly where I started.

00:25:34.658 --> 00:25:39.118
<v Moshe>And obviously that was not conducive to any kind of healthy relationship.

00:25:39.903 --> 00:25:46.643
<v Moshe>So both of us had to decide if it was worth putting in clearly lots of work

00:25:46.643 --> 00:25:53.683
<v Moshe>to get to where I understood what was expected of me in the kind of relationship that,

00:25:53.843 --> 00:25:57.383
<v Moshe>as you say, a regular person would be in with a partner.

00:25:57.843 --> 00:26:01.963
<v Moshe>And back to the whole concept of self-esteem, if that's something that I was

00:26:01.963 --> 00:26:03.303
<v Moshe>willing to put in the work for.

00:26:03.743 --> 00:26:07.403
<v Moshe>Because honestly, I don't want to fault anyone who, you know,

00:26:07.503 --> 00:26:10.683
<v Moshe>maybe they try dating or maybe they don't and they decide, you know what,

00:26:10.783 --> 00:26:14.443
<v Moshe>I just want to play video games all day or I just want to draw all day or I

00:26:14.443 --> 00:26:17.163
<v Moshe>just want to do my thing and I don't want to share.

00:26:17.343 --> 00:26:21.683
<v Leah>That's each person's, you know, decision. Nobody has to do anything they don't

00:26:21.683 --> 00:26:23.123
<v Leah>want to do, especially once they're an adult.

00:26:23.263 --> 00:26:25.883
<v Leah>Kids sometimes have to do something. They don't want to go to school or whatever,

00:26:26.023 --> 00:26:28.463
<v Leah>but, you know, especially once they're an adult.

00:26:28.743 --> 00:26:33.543
<v Leah>But that definitely was a thing that happened very early on and very often earlier

00:26:33.543 --> 00:26:38.083
<v Leah>on, a lot less now, from me going, do you really even, like, is this okay?

00:26:38.403 --> 00:26:40.903
<v Leah>Like, is all these changes you're making okay? Is this too hard?

00:26:40.963 --> 00:26:42.183
<v Leah>Do you even want to do this?

00:26:42.563 --> 00:26:45.843
<v Leah>Right. And it was a genuine question. It wasn't like a manipulation.

00:26:46.003 --> 00:26:49.743
<v Leah>Like, do you even want me? It was, do you even, I see how hard this is.

00:26:49.823 --> 00:26:52.303
<v Leah>Do you even want this? Like, let's backpedal for a second.

00:26:53.423 --> 00:26:58.023
<v Moshe>Because one of the things that makes our relationship unique and that makes

00:26:58.023 --> 00:27:02.943
<v Moshe>actually this podcast unique is because we weren't two people that just kind

00:27:02.943 --> 00:27:06.483
<v Moshe>of got together and we had to put in a little bit of work understanding each other.

00:27:06.583 --> 00:27:09.383
<v Leah>If I'm being honest and don't take this for anything but the love it is,

00:27:09.583 --> 00:27:12.863
<v Leah>if I just had met you in our 40s, we wouldn't have made it.

00:27:13.223 --> 00:27:17.523
<v Moshe>Exactly. Because we did have that history and you did know me from the before times.

00:27:17.983 --> 00:27:23.023
<v Moshe>And I had a lot of crap that were piled on top of me, a lot of bad habits that

00:27:23.023 --> 00:27:25.683
<v Moshe>had been baked into my personality.

00:27:26.303 --> 00:27:31.983
<v Moshe>And you really kind of had to chip away at all the bad stuff to get down to the person that I was.

00:27:32.283 --> 00:27:35.243
<v Moshe>But the question that kept coming up over and over, as you said,

00:27:35.343 --> 00:27:36.763
<v Moshe>is do you really want to put in the work?

00:27:36.963 --> 00:27:40.063
<v Moshe>Do you really want to do the things that you need to do?

00:27:40.163 --> 00:27:45.143
<v Moshe>Because for me, and I'll self-admit, for me it wasn't a matter of just trying

00:27:45.143 --> 00:27:46.683
<v Moshe>to better understand you.

00:27:46.823 --> 00:27:52.243
<v Moshe>I literally needed to know how to be in a relationship at all with anybody ever

00:27:52.243 --> 00:27:55.583
<v Moshe>because I had an unhealthy relationship with everyone in my life.

00:27:55.683 --> 00:28:01.083
<v Moshe>And I had to basically be broken down to my foundations and rebuilt up.

00:28:01.443 --> 00:28:04.383
<v Moshe>It's like one of those houses that you look at it and you go, no.

00:28:04.723 --> 00:28:08.723
<v Moshe>And you have to bulldoze the whole thing and build on top of it.

00:28:08.783 --> 00:28:09.943
<v Moshe>That was kind of where I was at.

00:28:10.063 --> 00:28:14.023
<v Leah>Every relationship that you had that had been modeled for you had been a power

00:28:14.023 --> 00:28:15.943
<v Leah>struggle. It wasn't actually a relationship.

00:28:16.503 --> 00:28:20.683
<v Leah>So that person gets everything they want or I get everything I want. There's no in between.

00:28:21.403 --> 00:28:26.203
<v Leah>And I never worked that way. So finding that medium was really, really difficult.

00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:28.020
<v Speaker2>Because I don't power struggle.

00:28:28.360 --> 00:28:29.940
<v Leah>I win. You know this. Of course.

00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:35.340
<v Moshe>I mean, that's inevitable. The fact is you're a very strong-willed person.

00:28:37.180 --> 00:28:42.860
<v Moshe>And on your part, you had to absolutely decide if this was work that you were willing to put in.

00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:47.660
<v Moshe>And on my part, I had to really decide if this was work that I was willing to put in.

00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:50.980
<v Moshe>But also, as you said, if I really even wanted it.

00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:54.400
<v Leah>But that's the one thing that I'm really proud of myself, even from the beginning.

00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:57.120
<v Leah>I desperately loved you and wanted to be with you.

00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:00.500
<v Leah>But I was honest right from the beginning. I said things like,

00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:03.280
<v Leah>I don't need to be with you. I want to be with you.

00:29:03.840 --> 00:29:07.580
<v Leah>Do you even, you know, are you capable? Is this too hard for you?

00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:09.020
<v Leah>If it is, I will leave you alone.

00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.020
<v Leah>Like, I was very honest from the beginning. And I'm proud of myself for that.

00:29:13.300 --> 00:29:18.520
<v Moshe>You were. And I respect and I love you for that. And it's formed a model for me.

00:29:19.540 --> 00:29:24.020
<v Moshe>And unfortunately, that really has led to some pros and cons as far as my my

00:29:24.020 --> 00:29:30.420
<v Moshe>own sense of self, because some people might listen to our story and describing

00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:32.260
<v Moshe>where I started and where I'm at.

00:29:33.380 --> 00:29:36.840
<v Moshe>And if they didn't know you and they didn't know me and they didn't know us

00:29:36.840 --> 00:29:40.280
<v Moshe>and they didn't know the efforts that both of us put in, they would go,

00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:44.320
<v Moshe>well, clearly you just basically made him into who you wanted him to be.

00:29:44.760 --> 00:29:50.500
<v Moshe>And what he wants doesn't even matter. But the whole time you gave me an out.

00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:53.820
<v Moshe>You said, you don't have to do this. This is too hard for you.

00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:58.600
<v Moshe>I don't have to be with you in this way. We can be friends or we can be together in some other way.

00:29:58.820 --> 00:30:02.700
<v Moshe>And I could, like, you could do what you want, but if you say you want this,

00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:04.720
<v Moshe>then you have to follow through on it.

00:30:05.140 --> 00:30:09.600
<v Moshe>And then I had to sort of take a step back and go, well, do I want this?

00:30:09.700 --> 00:30:11.380
<v Moshe>And it turned out, yes, I absolutely do.

00:30:11.980 --> 00:30:16.980
<v Moshe>So to answer your question, it was very much about,

00:30:18.056 --> 00:30:22.416
<v Moshe>what I actually wanted as a person, not just as an autistic person,

00:30:22.416 --> 00:30:25.896
<v Moshe>because I see a lot of these videos and I call out a lot of them.

00:30:26.296 --> 00:30:30.216
<v Moshe>And I am, if I could just get on my soapbox for a second.

00:30:30.376 --> 00:30:34.396
<v Leah>I mean, the people who just want to delve into their special interests all day,

00:30:34.536 --> 00:30:36.696
<v Leah>every day, it's not what we're talking about here.

00:30:36.816 --> 00:30:38.456
<v Moshe>No. And that's perfectly fine.

00:30:38.936 --> 00:30:42.996
<v Leah>But that wasn't you, because you did that. You had the ability to have,

00:30:43.096 --> 00:30:46.596
<v Leah>well, you didn't really have the ability to have that life, but it cost to other

00:30:46.596 --> 00:30:50.396
<v Leah>people you took the ability to have that life. And you were still miserable. I was miserable.

00:30:50.676 --> 00:30:54.276
<v Moshe>And you know what? If you're the kind of person and you want to invest all of

00:30:54.276 --> 00:30:57.696
<v Moshe>your time in computer games or video games or art or sports or,

00:30:57.916 --> 00:31:01.976
<v Moshe>I don't know, some other special interest, and you have the means to do so while

00:31:01.976 --> 00:31:06.276
<v Moshe>still being gamefully employed or being independently wealthy, or you, you know,

00:31:06.936 --> 00:31:10.876
<v Moshe>heaven forbid, have a spouse that is fine living their own separate life from

00:31:10.876 --> 00:31:15.576
<v Moshe>you while you spend eight hours a day, you know, trying to beat the latest level

00:31:15.576 --> 00:31:16.736
<v Moshe>in the latest video game.

00:31:16.736 --> 00:31:19.376
<v Leah>That ended up being my last marriage, but that's because I just gave up.

00:31:19.796 --> 00:31:26.836
<v Moshe>But you loved me too much to not allow me to, you know, put in the work for

00:31:26.836 --> 00:31:30.056
<v Moshe>what I wanted because you decided what you wanted in a relationship.

00:31:30.056 --> 00:31:31.876
<v Moshe>And I decided that that's what I wanted.

00:31:32.376 --> 00:31:35.736
<v Moshe>And I put in the work and I wanted to get to where I was at.

00:31:36.616 --> 00:31:39.676
<v Moshe>And, you know, years and years later now.

00:31:40.552 --> 00:31:46.672
<v Moshe>I'm at a place where, and again, I'm taking us back to the beginning when we

00:31:46.672 --> 00:31:47.632
<v Moshe>were talking about that.

00:31:48.332 --> 00:31:53.092
<v Moshe>Years and years later now, I'm at a place now where I believe that I'm in,

00:31:53.092 --> 00:31:55.812
<v Moshe>you know, maintenance mode, I guess we'll say.

00:31:55.992 --> 00:32:01.812
<v Moshe>You know, when you have to do a lifestyle change and you have to work on getting

00:32:01.812 --> 00:32:06.752
<v Moshe>rid of the bad and getting rid of the non-helpful and changing your environment

00:32:06.752 --> 00:32:09.232
<v Moshe>to suit your needs and all the things.

00:32:09.592 --> 00:32:16.352
<v Moshe>I needed to get away from both the physical and the intangible that were keeping

00:32:16.352 --> 00:32:20.212
<v Moshe>me locked in that state where I was miserable,

00:32:20.472 --> 00:32:25.772
<v Moshe>where I was unproductive, where I was, you know, in a toxic place.

00:32:26.132 --> 00:32:31.692
<v Moshe>And I needed to dump it all. And then once all that was done to the point where

00:32:31.692 --> 00:32:38.672
<v Moshe>I knew that where I was at right now was where I needed to start,

00:32:38.932 --> 00:32:42.092
<v Moshe>then I could start from zero.

00:32:42.672 --> 00:32:46.732
<v Leah>Right. So now we're getting into the how this factors into your self-esteem thing.

00:32:46.932 --> 00:32:51.012
<v Moshe>So I was not starting from zero. I was starting from about negative 50.

00:32:51.212 --> 00:32:51.592
<v Leah>Got it.

00:32:52.092 --> 00:32:56.212
<v Moshe>And once I started from zero, I could go, okay, so everything has been torn

00:32:56.212 --> 00:32:57.732
<v Moshe>down. All the bad is gone.

00:32:58.372 --> 00:33:05.132
<v Moshe>Now I need to prove that I can do the work to keep myself doing the things that

00:33:05.132 --> 00:33:06.332
<v Moshe>I want because I've established.

00:33:06.512 --> 00:33:10.412
<v Leah>So I'd like to establish this for the listeners. So who are you proving it to?

00:33:11.332 --> 00:33:14.532
<v Leah>Myself. Right. Because people could think that you're proving it to me.

00:33:14.732 --> 00:33:17.872
<v Moshe>No, no, no. I'm not proving it to you at all. I'm proving it to me.

00:33:18.872 --> 00:33:23.952
<v Moshe>I don't, I've internalized at this point that I don't have to prove anything to you.

00:33:24.628 --> 00:33:29.948
<v Moshe>I just have to prove it to myself because you accept me the way I am,

00:33:30.168 --> 00:33:33.948
<v Moshe>but you also accept yourself the way that you are. Right.

00:33:34.468 --> 00:33:38.208
<v Moshe>And that is oftentimes in the past has been congruent.

00:33:39.328 --> 00:33:47.728
<v Moshe>So the work for me now has been, these are all the things that you know now that you need to do.

00:33:48.088 --> 00:33:56.308
<v Moshe>Now you just have to go do them. And so I started a chart or like, I don't know, a metric.

00:33:56.348 --> 00:33:57.068
<v Speaker2>If you will.

00:33:57.668 --> 00:34:01.048
<v Moshe>I call it self-esteem, but it's much more complex than that,

00:34:01.188 --> 00:34:08.388
<v Moshe>which is essentially how am I keeping to my sense of this is what I want.

00:34:08.508 --> 00:34:11.948
<v Moshe>This is how I need to act. This is how I need to behave.

00:34:12.288 --> 00:34:15.528
<v Moshe>This is how I need to think. These are things that I don't do.

00:34:15.668 --> 00:34:17.168
<v Moshe>These are things that I must do.

00:34:17.328 --> 00:34:21.708
<v Moshe>These are things that I need to remember to do. These are the things I need to remember not to do.

00:34:22.108 --> 00:34:30.848
<v Moshe>And how close do I fit into the standard that both you and I have worked together to help me build?

00:34:31.548 --> 00:34:34.248
<v Moshe>And that's kind of where I go.

00:34:34.628 --> 00:34:39.088
<v Leah>Right. And when he's saying he built himself a metric, a lot of people would

00:34:39.088 --> 00:34:41.348
<v Leah>be picturing he's keeping track of this in his own mind.

00:34:41.448 --> 00:34:44.028
<v Leah>No, you literally have an app where you're tracking this.

00:34:44.208 --> 00:34:46.588
<v Leah>So can you describe a little bit how that's working?

00:34:47.448 --> 00:34:48.028
<v Speaker2>Yes.

00:34:48.548 --> 00:34:56.148
<v Moshe>So I consider it sort of like some people, they start at a hundred percent and

00:34:56.148 --> 00:35:01.108
<v Moshe>they, they, you know, dock themselves every time they make a mistake.

00:35:01.348 --> 00:35:05.048
<v Moshe>And that applies to whether you're trying to do a test.

00:35:05.048 --> 00:35:06.608
<v Speaker2>Or whether You're

00:35:06.608 --> 00:35:09.848
<v Moshe>Trying to achieve a goal.

00:35:10.428 --> 00:35:15.788
<v Moshe>You're achieving it until you aren't, basically. I choose to start from the

00:35:15.788 --> 00:35:17.748
<v Moshe>most common method, which is you're at zero.

00:35:18.148 --> 00:35:22.268
<v Moshe>And every time you maintain that, you build yourself up.

00:35:23.187 --> 00:35:31.987
<v Moshe>So if you want to treat it as a linear scale, zero is I'm basically back to where I started.

00:35:32.207 --> 00:35:36.347
<v Moshe>I have the information that I need to do and that I just need to do it.

00:35:36.487 --> 00:35:41.647
<v Moshe>And I guess we could call 10 as being consistently and regularly and over the

00:35:41.647 --> 00:35:48.407
<v Moshe>course of a long time demonstrating that this is now the way that I'm living my life.

00:35:48.487 --> 00:35:50.867
<v Leah>So I have a question for you. And again, this is a live question.

00:35:51.047 --> 00:35:53.027
<v Leah>I've never asked this before and I don't know the answer.

00:35:54.027 --> 00:35:58.447
<v Leah>So why then when you make one mistake, let's say, when you've done a bunch of other stuff,

00:35:58.907 --> 00:36:02.387
<v Leah>great, but you've done one mistake that upsets me or causes this type of discussion

00:36:02.387 --> 00:36:06.867
<v Leah>or that causes you to not be perfect, do you go all the way back down to zero

00:36:06.867 --> 00:36:09.447
<v Leah>instead of going back by like one or two?

00:36:09.447 --> 00:36:15.307
<v Moshe>Because and actually you've identified this for me several times especially

00:36:15.307 --> 00:36:23.207
<v Moshe>when we have disagreements because if it's a case of you didn't know that this was a.

00:36:23.207 --> 00:36:24.987
<v Speaker2>Problem and now you

00:36:24.987 --> 00:36:30.487
<v Moshe>Do that's fine we could encounter a new scenario we could counter a new situation

00:36:30.487 --> 00:36:36.787
<v Moshe>or we could do something that I've never seen before from you.

00:36:37.067 --> 00:36:41.367
<v Moshe>Maybe you haven't told me. Maybe it's not something you were even aware of.

00:36:41.807 --> 00:36:45.947
<v Moshe>Maybe one day you decided and woke up and you hated the smell of lavender.

00:36:46.407 --> 00:36:50.427
<v Moshe>And I always used like a lavender shampoo or something. You're like,

00:36:50.547 --> 00:36:53.947
<v Moshe>now I hate that smell. I never want you to use it again.

00:36:54.347 --> 00:36:57.967
<v Moshe>Then I can't be going, oh, shoot. The whole time I was using lavender,

00:36:58.107 --> 00:37:01.167
<v Moshe>I was doing terrible things. No, I had no idea.

00:37:01.167 --> 00:37:02.847
<v Leah>So you wouldn't feel bad about that?

00:37:03.107 --> 00:37:06.967
<v Moshe>No, I'd be like, oh, my goodness. Historically, you would have. Exactly.

00:37:07.367 --> 00:37:14.287
<v Moshe>But you see, you were the one who told me, if I don't set the expectation for

00:37:14.287 --> 00:37:19.107
<v Moshe>you, you are not to blame for not meeting it.

00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:23.820
<v Moshe>Because I asked you, I said, if I'm, you know,

00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:26.980
<v Moshe>out, if I'm at synagogue or I'm out for a walk or something,

00:37:27.180 --> 00:37:30.840
<v Moshe>and you need me for something, and I'm not home when you need me,

00:37:30.940 --> 00:37:33.680
<v Moshe>and I come home, and you go, you know, like a couple of hours ago,

00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:36.000
<v Moshe>this thing happened, I really could have used you home. Right.

00:37:36.080 --> 00:37:37.500
<v Leah>I told you cell phones exist.

00:37:37.660 --> 00:37:42.900
<v Moshe>Right. You know, if for whatever reason that happened, and I wasn't exactly

00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:47.000
<v Moshe>where you were at that moment that you needed me, you said, I'm not going to blame you.

00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:52.320
<v Moshe>Because if I had said, I need you to be home for 2 p.m. to do this and you weren't home, that's on you.

00:37:52.620 --> 00:37:56.900
<v Moshe>But if at 2 p.m. something happened and I really could have used you and I messaged

00:37:56.900 --> 00:37:59.000
<v Moshe>you and said, there's something happening.

00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:01.740
<v Moshe>I need you to come home right away. And then I come home right away.

00:38:02.240 --> 00:38:05.400
<v Moshe>I'm not going to be mad at you for saying, well, you weren't home when this thing happened.

00:38:05.600 --> 00:38:05.920
<v Leah>Obviously.

00:38:06.140 --> 00:38:09.700
<v Moshe>Because I didn't set the standard that you needed to be. If I did,

00:38:09.940 --> 00:38:14.900
<v Moshe>then it's to you. So when we have these disagreements that I feel bring me down

00:38:14.900 --> 00:38:17.700
<v Moshe>to zero, it really starts with,

00:38:18.080 --> 00:38:20.700
<v Moshe>well, did you know that this was something that you shouldn't be doing?

00:38:21.680 --> 00:38:28.220
<v Moshe>Then absolutely, you failed. Or did you know that this was something you needed to do?

00:38:28.620 --> 00:38:31.600
<v Moshe>Then if you didn't do it, then absolutely you failed.

00:38:31.740 --> 00:38:34.060
<v Leah>But does a failure bring you to zero automatically?

00:38:34.460 --> 00:38:36.140
<v Moshe>Yes. Every time? Yes.

00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:38.160
<v Leah>There's no like level of failures?

00:38:39.527 --> 00:38:41.187
<v Speaker2>They don't have like a monetary value.

00:38:41.907 --> 00:38:44.967
<v Leah>Like if you forgot at this point to put my coffee powder in my cup,

00:38:45.367 --> 00:38:47.447
<v Leah>how much would you have to be knocked down for that?

00:38:47.667 --> 00:38:52.147
<v Moshe>No, the minor things are insignificant. Like if you ask me.

00:38:52.147 --> 00:38:53.207
<v Leah>That's progress for you.

00:38:53.527 --> 00:38:57.487
<v Moshe>Yes, I know because I, I, I consider it the big things.

00:38:57.727 --> 00:39:01.867
<v Moshe>Like if you, you know, if, if I give you a cup of coffee and you're like,

00:39:01.927 --> 00:39:04.447
<v Moshe>did you put sugar in this? I'm like, Oh shoot, I forgot to put sugar.

00:39:04.787 --> 00:39:08.287
<v Moshe>I'm not going to like throw myself on the ground because I should have known

00:39:08.287 --> 00:39:09.507
<v Moshe>to put sugar in your coffee.

00:39:10.047 --> 00:39:14.387
<v Moshe>It's like, okay, you forgot. Now go do it. And it's fine. You're not going to

00:39:14.387 --> 00:39:18.027
<v Moshe>be upset at me. You're not going to discuss it with me. You're not going to get mad at me.

00:39:18.507 --> 00:39:20.487
<v Moshe>You're not going to, we're not going to fight over it.

00:39:20.527 --> 00:39:23.227
<v Leah>Forget stuff like that all the time. I bring salt to the table,

00:39:23.327 --> 00:39:26.767
<v Leah>go, guys, I forgot to put salt in this or whatever. It's not a big deal.

00:39:27.127 --> 00:39:30.687
<v Moshe>And then you can escalate that a little bit. Where if you ask me,

00:39:30.687 --> 00:39:35.127
<v Moshe>you know, to change the sheets on the bed, and then did you change the sheets on the bed?

00:39:35.807 --> 00:39:39.587
<v Moshe>No. Okay. You forgot. Okay. So now do it. And then the third time,

00:39:39.727 --> 00:39:43.767
<v Moshe>it's like, okay, so I already asked you twice to do it. Could you please go do it now?

00:39:44.407 --> 00:39:48.027
<v Moshe>I'm going to feel a little bad. I'm going to be like, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry.

00:39:48.407 --> 00:39:52.547
<v Moshe>I'm just, I'm not thinking clearly today. I'm going to go do it right now, and then it's done.

00:39:52.907 --> 00:39:56.147
<v Moshe>You're not going to come back and say, you know, you should know that when I

00:39:56.147 --> 00:39:58.707
<v Moshe>ask you and all that stuff. That's not how that works.

00:39:59.087 --> 00:40:04.147
<v Moshe>So it's going to be like a little bit of, I should have, I got to be more aware of what you ask.

00:40:04.147 --> 00:40:10.607
<v Moshe>But the big things, the things that I do that I know I can't do,

00:40:10.667 --> 00:40:17.407
<v Moshe>or just like picking fights with you, or like going a week without asking you how you're doing,

00:40:17.767 --> 00:40:23.167
<v Moshe>or like the really big things, it's not like I didn't know.

00:40:23.787 --> 00:40:26.447
<v Moshe>It's like it's clear that I knew.

00:40:27.851 --> 00:40:28.591
<v Speaker2>And you're right.

00:40:28.731 --> 00:40:35.751
<v Moshe>It was very significant for me to be able to divide. To differentiate.

00:40:36.111 --> 00:40:40.611
<v Moshe>Differentiate between I should be doing this, but I didn't, and now I can.

00:40:40.931 --> 00:40:46.531
<v Moshe>Or I should have known that this was something you wanted, but now I do, and it's fine.

00:40:47.571 --> 00:40:51.551
<v Moshe>And you did this thing, and it was just like you.

00:40:52.131 --> 00:40:55.931
<v Moshe>I can't believe you did this thing. I can't believe you didn't do this thing.

00:40:55.931 --> 00:41:02.811
<v Moshe>I can't believe that I don't matter or that you didn't think like, I don't know,

00:41:03.271 --> 00:41:08.951
<v Moshe>some things we talked about that I can't do because it distracts me or some

00:41:08.951 --> 00:41:11.991
<v Moshe>things that you've talked to me about that are important to you.

00:41:12.971 --> 00:41:18.511
<v Moshe>I should know better. It's one of those, like we talked about when we did the

00:41:18.511 --> 00:41:21.511
<v Moshe>list of topics that we were going to talk about one day.

00:41:21.731 --> 00:41:24.771
<v Moshe>We talked about the danger of you should know.

00:41:26.031 --> 00:41:30.091
<v Moshe>And a lot of those are very much insignificant.

00:41:30.091 --> 00:41:35.071
<v Leah>But I agree with that wholeheartedly, except for even for an autistic with ADHD.

00:41:35.311 --> 00:41:38.191
<v Leah>When somebody has expressed something to you 10 or 20 times, you should know.

00:41:38.651 --> 00:41:41.651
<v Leah>There's a difference between you should come out of the box knowing things,

00:41:41.651 --> 00:41:46.411
<v Leah>and we've had in-depth discussions about this 10 times, and I've told you how

00:41:46.411 --> 00:41:48.951
<v Leah>I feel about it, and I've even cried and I got emotional.

00:41:49.711 --> 00:41:54.651
<v Leah>Then there's, I think, a little bit of an entitlement to you should know there. Right.

00:41:54.911 --> 00:42:03.011
<v Moshe>And I and I believe that we need to establish that the you should know thing is it has its its merits,

00:42:03.011 --> 00:42:09.031
<v Moshe>because when you've been in a relationship for the for the several years now

00:42:09.031 --> 00:42:11.291
<v Moshe>that we have to the extent that we have been.

00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:13.499
<v Moshe>And we've.

00:42:13.499 --> 00:42:14.959
<v Speaker2>Established right away

00:42:14.959 --> 00:42:23.019
<v Moshe>That there are like ground rules, then it becomes a lot easier for me to feel

00:42:23.019 --> 00:42:28.939
<v Moshe>bad about myself when I don't do the things that I absolutely should be doing.

00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:30.479
<v Leah>That doesn't sound positive.

00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:33.579
<v Moshe>It's positive in the sense that...

00:42:33.579 --> 00:42:35.679
<v Leah>I mean, that's the thing. When you revealed to me what you were doing,

00:42:35.779 --> 00:42:40.179
<v Leah>I actually had concerns because it sounded like emotionally or maybe mentally

00:42:40.179 --> 00:42:46.079
<v Leah>not necessarily the most positive of things, but I understand why you're doing it.

00:42:46.299 --> 00:42:53.059
<v Moshe>Right. Because it's actually a very positive thing because when we were in the

00:42:53.059 --> 00:42:57.839
<v Moshe>initial stages of our relationship and I genuinely struggled with the very basics,

00:42:58.899 --> 00:43:03.319
<v Moshe>and I pushed and I pulled, and it was a whole thing about me trying to reconcile

00:43:03.319 --> 00:43:07.919
<v Moshe>how I felt versus what was actually normal.

00:43:07.919 --> 00:43:09.579
<v Moshe>I hate that word, but there it is.

00:43:10.219 --> 00:43:17.699
<v Moshe>It was very easy for me to be down on myself because I had failed,

00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:20.239
<v Moshe>but I didn't know how or why.

00:43:20.959 --> 00:43:24.579
<v Moshe>And I talk a lot about knowing the why of things.

00:43:24.939 --> 00:43:28.999
<v Moshe>And knowing it and internalizing it are different things, too.

00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:33.079
<v Moshe>Because if you don't know the why, even the most basic of whys,

00:43:33.439 --> 00:43:35.959
<v Moshe>then you're already – the battle's lost.

00:43:35.959 --> 00:43:41.099
<v Moshe>If you know the why, but you haven't internalized it, it doesn't matter enough

00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:46.159
<v Moshe>to you to make it a thing, then the battle is already lost, too.

00:43:46.339 --> 00:43:50.719
<v Moshe>Because I understand why you want this, or I understand that you want it,

00:43:50.819 --> 00:43:52.939
<v Moshe>rather, but I don't know why it's important.

00:43:54.264 --> 00:43:57.784
<v Moshe>And the question or the answer should be, it's important because it's important

00:43:57.784 --> 00:44:00.844
<v Moshe>to me and I'm important to you. So it should be important to you too.

00:44:01.204 --> 00:44:05.684
<v Moshe>And that is the very nature of the relationship.

00:44:05.884 --> 00:44:11.924
<v Moshe>And certain things are going to be different in terms of importance to different couples.

00:44:12.124 --> 00:44:18.484
<v Moshe>And that's not to say that I haven't adjusted my way of thinking for you specifically

00:44:18.484 --> 00:44:19.724
<v Moshe>because I absolutely have.

00:44:19.724 --> 00:44:23.984
<v Moshe>And there are other couples out there that don't prioritize the things that

00:44:23.984 --> 00:44:29.384
<v Moshe>you prioritize and they don't care about the things that maybe you care about.

00:44:29.504 --> 00:44:32.584
<v Leah>We've described so many of them and that's fine for them.

00:44:32.844 --> 00:44:36.524
<v Leah>And that's great. You know, one you know, where the neurotypical only accommodates

00:44:36.524 --> 00:44:40.064
<v Leah>and they don't ever get anything back and they seem to be okay with it.

00:44:40.924 --> 00:44:46.024
<v Leah>You know, or where the autistic person will just take on all the traits of the

00:44:46.024 --> 00:44:49.604
<v Leah>person that they're with in order to make the couple work.

00:44:49.724 --> 00:44:53.704
<v Moshe>And that was actually a developmental stage for our relationship too,

00:44:53.704 --> 00:44:59.904
<v Moshe>where I decided that in order for me to be the best partner that I could be

00:44:59.904 --> 00:45:03.284
<v Moshe>to you, I would just shadow you and mirror you all the time.

00:45:03.604 --> 00:45:07.084
<v Leah>Right. Except for it became a little ridiculous when, I don't know if I've ever

00:45:07.084 --> 00:45:12.044
<v Leah>discussed this before, but I've had surgery on my stomach and I can't eat very much.

00:45:12.164 --> 00:45:15.804
<v Leah>And when you decided that you only wanted to eat as much as I did and I had concerns,

00:45:16.995 --> 00:45:21.695
<v Leah>For your literal health, it started to become obvious that it wasn't going to work for everything.

00:45:22.315 --> 00:45:29.635
<v Moshe>Right. And it was very simple and it was very basic and it should be very clear to the regular person.

00:45:30.215 --> 00:45:33.635
<v Moshe>When you're hungry, you eat. If it's a problem, do something about it.

00:45:33.735 --> 00:45:35.915
<v Moshe>If it's not, eat as much as you feel like you need to eat.

00:45:36.715 --> 00:45:40.635
<v Moshe>Similar to if you were, let's say, a professional jogger. And I was like,

00:45:40.715 --> 00:45:42.355
<v Moshe>I'm going to go jogging with you every morning.

00:45:42.575 --> 00:45:47.855
<v Moshe>We're going to jog 5K every morning. and you were like you you don't jog so

00:45:47.855 --> 00:45:52.095
<v Moshe>you don't have to do this this is something that i do because i want to and

00:45:52.095 --> 00:45:57.015
<v Moshe>i can and it's important to me but it doesn't have to be important to you yeah it.

00:45:57.015 --> 00:46:02.235
<v Leah>Wasn't even physically reasonable so when you started to want to shadow me to

00:46:02.235 --> 00:46:03.895
<v Leah>that extent that had to be a talk

00:46:03.895 --> 00:46:09.155
<v Moshe>Right because it was not physically reasonable because our metabolisms are different and our body.

00:46:09.155 --> 00:46:11.675
<v Leah>Chemistry body body makeup and whatever yeah

00:46:11.675 --> 00:46:15.755
<v Moshe>That's neither here nor there. Because now, sitting before you,

00:46:15.935 --> 00:46:19.555
<v Moshe>I eat as much as I want, and sometimes way too much, but that's on me.

00:46:19.715 --> 00:46:22.035
<v Leah>And you're in really good physical shape. And I'm in good physical shape.

00:46:22.055 --> 00:46:22.735
<v Leah>Well, except for the lung thing.

00:46:22.915 --> 00:46:26.575
<v Moshe>Yeah, I mean, whatever. My voice is changing and not in a good way.

00:46:28.155 --> 00:46:31.675
<v Moshe>And that sort of branched out to, this is what I want to do.

00:46:31.835 --> 00:46:34.715
<v Moshe>If you don't want to do it, is it okay if I still do it?

00:46:35.375 --> 00:46:40.435
<v Moshe>So in trying to be a better partner to you, I discovered, and again,

00:46:40.435 --> 00:46:44.735
<v Moshe>This is why I had to struggle so much to be a good partner at all.

00:46:44.915 --> 00:46:51.335
<v Moshe>I discovered that if we have different interests, it doesn't mean that you value me less.

00:46:52.055 --> 00:46:57.395
<v Moshe>Because if we're not the same in every conceivable way, you still care about

00:46:57.395 --> 00:47:01.235
<v Moshe>me, even if you don't care about the things that I care about.

00:47:01.455 --> 00:47:02.135
<v Leah>That's true.

00:47:03.015 --> 00:47:08.835
<v Moshe>Because for the longest time, and this goes back to the beginning of the episode

00:47:08.835 --> 00:47:14.015
<v Moshe>today as well, I believe that if I didn't share the interests of the people

00:47:14.015 --> 00:47:15.975
<v Moshe>that I was with, then they...

00:47:17.040 --> 00:47:22.260
<v Moshe>They didn't value me. And if my interests didn't have the same importance to

00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:26.240
<v Moshe>the people around me, then they weren't valid interests. And that was a problem.

00:47:26.380 --> 00:47:29.740
<v Leah>Yeah, that's where you hear a lot of times, you know, when somebody's dating,

00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:32.680
<v Leah>and they say, yeah, it was nice or whatever. We had a good time,

00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:33.920
<v Leah>but we didn't have much in common.

00:47:34.160 --> 00:47:38.740
<v Leah>Right. We have a lot in common. You and I share a lot of interests.

00:47:38.980 --> 00:47:41.380
<v Leah>There's no shortage of things that we can do together.

00:47:41.680 --> 00:47:48.800
<v Leah>So it's perfectly okay if you have five or six things that you like to do, and I don't and likewise

00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:55.820
<v Moshe>Right because if I'm engaging an activity that I enjoy that I want to do that

00:47:55.820 --> 00:48:01.020
<v Moshe>make me feel good and you're either not interested in it at all or not interested

00:48:01.020 --> 00:48:06.260
<v Moshe>in it to the extent that I am then it doesn't mean that that activity has less value overall.

00:48:06.260 --> 00:48:09.680
<v Leah>Right we have plenty in common when you

00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:12.640
<v Leah>know that sort of thing happens like we're

00:48:12.640 --> 00:48:16.040
<v Leah>both adventurous and we like to travel and we like comedy and we like to laugh

00:48:16.040 --> 00:48:20.880
<v Leah>and we can talk and talk and talk and talk for hours and you know we have the

00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:24.440
<v Leah>interest of the kids in common like we have a lot in common so if you want to

00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:29.380
<v Leah>go to shul for some obscure thing that i've never heard of and i don't particularly

00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:31.440
<v Leah>feel like it it's not a big deal right

00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:39.220
<v Moshe>And that was that that has everything to do with the israel thing and basically

00:48:39.220 --> 00:48:43.700
<v Moshe>my entire life was i want to do this that thing doesn't interest me.

00:48:43.900 --> 00:48:45.120
<v Moshe>Okay, I don't want to do it anymore.

00:48:45.660 --> 00:48:50.540
<v Moshe>And I gave in too much to that, to the point where I talked about moving to

00:48:50.540 --> 00:48:55.380
<v Moshe>Israel for decades, and I never did it because everyone I told was like,

00:48:55.460 --> 00:48:56.580
<v Moshe>that doesn't interest me.

00:48:56.840 --> 00:48:59.800
<v Moshe>And then instead of going, well, you know what, it interests me,

00:48:59.940 --> 00:49:02.420
<v Moshe>and I'm going to do it. I went, well, if it doesn't interest you,

00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:04.720
<v Moshe>it's probably not important. And then I moved on.

00:49:05.140 --> 00:49:10.940
<v Moshe>But we had to dig down, which took us a few years, where we had to figure out

00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:16.580
<v Moshe>So when I said to you, I want to do this, you had to ask yourself,

00:49:16.700 --> 00:49:18.000
<v Moshe>is this also important to me?

00:49:18.560 --> 00:49:22.800
<v Leah>I think moving to Israel was probably the first thing that really passed the

00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:25.940
<v Leah>or had to pass through the flow chart I was describing. For sure.

00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:30.040
<v Leah>And it went all the way from, you know, am I willing to, can I,

00:49:30.200 --> 00:49:35.420
<v Leah>can we, is this doable to, okay, so when we do this, it's not going to be one

00:49:35.420 --> 00:49:38.620
<v Leah>of your things where we get there and you want to do something else.

00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:39.360
<v Moshe>Right.

00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:43.780
<v Leah>And all of those were deal breakers, because when you make a decision like literally

00:49:43.780 --> 00:49:47.920
<v Leah>moving across the world to a completely different country, completely different

00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:53.540
<v Leah>society, completely different language, completely different everything, it's not lightly.

00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:58.520
<v Leah>So each one of the things in that flowchart was a deal breaker for Israel, and it still passed.

00:49:58.780 --> 00:50:02.160
<v Leah>So, I mean, I think that's why we have that flowchart now. It works.

00:50:02.160 --> 00:50:08.640
<v Moshe>It does work, and it really depends based on the degree of changes that need

00:50:08.640 --> 00:50:10.020
<v Moshe>to happen to make that possible.

00:50:11.234 --> 00:50:16.534
<v Moshe>Because, you know, from let's try different food right up until let's move to

00:50:16.534 --> 00:50:17.734
<v Moshe>the opposite side of the world.

00:50:17.934 --> 00:50:20.974
<v Leah>But again, it has to do with what's important to you because many people in

00:50:20.974 --> 00:50:22.254
<v Leah>my life told me don't do it.

00:50:22.574 --> 00:50:25.894
<v Leah>And if that was important to me, it might not have passed, but it wasn't because

00:50:25.894 --> 00:50:29.354
<v Leah>I don't really let other people tell me what to do so much.

00:50:29.994 --> 00:50:33.054
<v Leah>People are still saying, are you going to move home? We're here for almost a

00:50:33.054 --> 00:50:34.414
<v Leah>year now and we're doing really well.

00:50:34.694 --> 00:50:38.894
<v Moshe>Yeah, this is our home. And for good or for bad, we're building a life here.

00:50:38.894 --> 00:50:45.634
<v Moshe>But my self-esteem, my ability to believe that I am a worthwhile person is based

00:50:45.634 --> 00:50:50.714
<v Moshe>very strongly on my ability to stay close to my values.

00:50:50.914 --> 00:50:54.354
<v Moshe>And that's the other side of the metric.

00:50:54.654 --> 00:51:03.294
<v Moshe>It's not just how much I am the partner that you want me to be.

00:51:03.894 --> 00:51:09.694
<v Moshe>It's also how true I am to my own sense of values, because when we're not fighting,

00:51:09.894 --> 00:51:11.974
<v Moshe>which fortunately is not a lot,

00:51:12.794 --> 00:51:20.234
<v Moshe>not that we're not fighting, that that's not a lot, but we don't fight a lot

00:51:20.234 --> 00:51:21.054
<v Moshe>is what I'm trying to say.

00:51:21.274 --> 00:51:27.494
<v Moshe>I do move the chart up and down periodically just based on things that happen

00:51:27.494 --> 00:51:30.634
<v Moshe>in my own way of thinking.

00:51:30.634 --> 00:51:36.154
<v Moshe>Where I'll engage in a behavior that I don't feel necessarily matches where

00:51:36.154 --> 00:51:40.154
<v Moshe>I am, where I'll slide back into something that maybe I thought before.

00:51:40.274 --> 00:51:42.594
<v Moshe>And I'll go, no, that's not where you want to be, is it?

00:51:43.074 --> 00:51:49.674
<v Moshe>And we'll sort of, because I'm always trying to assess my own ability to continue

00:51:49.674 --> 00:51:52.434
<v Moshe>being the person that I want to be.

00:51:52.594 --> 00:51:58.574
<v Leah>And I know that Moshe gives me a lot of credit for a lot of his development,

00:51:58.574 --> 00:52:02.294
<v Leah>but I would like to point out again for the hundredth time that I had nothing

00:52:02.294 --> 00:52:04.314
<v Leah>to do with this. I didn't even know about it.

00:52:04.894 --> 00:52:10.474
<v Moshe>No, this, this has nothing to do with you. This is strictly a way that I gauge

00:52:10.474 --> 00:52:16.234
<v Moshe>my ability to, to stay close to my own personal values.

00:52:16.654 --> 00:52:22.674
<v Moshe>Because if I engage in a behavior, that behavior better be in line with what I want to do.

00:52:22.794 --> 00:52:24.974
<v Moshe>And if it's not, then there's a problem.

00:52:25.334 --> 00:52:29.854
<v Moshe>If I can nerd out for just a little bit, when you're playing Dungeons and Dragons,

00:52:30.174 --> 00:52:32.474
<v Moshe>there's the sense of being in an alignment.

00:52:32.774 --> 00:52:36.394
<v Moshe>And if you do actions that are out of that alignment, they're going to be consequences.

00:52:36.594 --> 00:52:39.394
<v Leah>Yeah, there are actual consequences to you in the game.

00:52:40.274 --> 00:52:44.974
<v Moshe>And I hold myself to a standard of an alignment, where if I engage in a behavior

00:52:44.974 --> 00:52:49.034
<v Moshe>or an action that is out of sync with where I see myself,

00:52:49.354 --> 00:52:56.334
<v Moshe>then it's going to cause a hit to my sense of self because I am behaving in

00:52:56.334 --> 00:52:59.174
<v Moshe>a way that is not conducive to my own sense of values.

00:53:00.260 --> 00:53:04.320
<v Moshe>And I had to build them basically from scratch. What are some things that I value?

00:53:04.520 --> 00:53:09.220
<v Moshe>What are some things that I need? What are some things that I do to make myself happy?

00:53:10.060 --> 00:53:12.060
<v Moshe>And more times than not.

00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:15.080
<v Speaker2>It involves being a good person,

00:53:15.240 --> 00:53:20.920
<v Moshe>Being honest, being hardworking, not engaging in unproductive activities,

00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:25.720
<v Moshe>and doing things that actually, I don't know, to use the catchphrase,

00:53:25.900 --> 00:53:29.620
<v Moshe>elicit joy, not just in myself, but in my family.

00:53:30.260 --> 00:53:35.520
<v Moshe>Because if you waste your time playing a video game or you end up, I don't know,

00:53:36.240 --> 00:53:41.280
<v Moshe>doing something else that is not conducive to the life that we're building,

00:53:41.520 --> 00:53:46.740
<v Moshe>then you have to ask yourself, did you mean to do that? Is that what you're trying to achieve?

00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:50.280
<v Moshe>Like, does this achieve the goal that you're trying to achieve?

00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:55.140
<v Moshe>Or are you doing something that is counterproductive to your own ability to

00:53:55.140 --> 00:53:58.980
<v Moshe>operate within the guidelines that you yourself, Moshe, set out?

00:53:58.980 --> 00:54:05.560
<v Leah>That in and of itself is interesting because most, I mean, I think it is a thing that children do.

00:54:05.700 --> 00:54:09.380
<v Leah>They'll waste time and whatever, just out of honestly laziness.

00:54:09.580 --> 00:54:10.920
<v Leah>I can't think of a different word for it.

00:54:11.260 --> 00:54:13.960
<v Leah>But it's not something that an adult will do necessarily.

00:54:14.780 --> 00:54:18.640
<v Leah>So when you find yourself doing a behavior that's not in line with what you

00:54:18.640 --> 00:54:22.680
<v Leah>want or what you've set out for yourself or the rules that you put in place,

00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:25.240
<v Leah>why do you think that is even?

00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:27.700
<v Leah>Because it's not something I would do. I wouldn't say, like,

00:54:28.660 --> 00:54:32.160
<v Leah>I want to budget and then go, I don't know, buy a fur coat or something.

00:54:32.680 --> 00:54:42.000
<v Moshe>I guess because part of being autistic and having ADHD and having these developmental

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:47.100
<v Moshe>delays is a general lack of impulse control and a lack of filter.

00:54:48.240 --> 00:54:55.300
<v Moshe>What seems absolutely normal and natural and easy to certain people is less easy to me.

00:54:55.300 --> 00:54:59.720
<v Leah>But that's my confusion. It starts even right there. If I don't want something,

00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:03.020
<v Leah>I don't even get the impulse to do it. So there's no impulse to control.

00:55:03.220 --> 00:55:05.220
<v Leah>So where does that come from, necessarily?

00:55:05.860 --> 00:55:15.780
<v Moshe>It comes from it. It comes from a ingrained desire to be counterintuitive to

00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:19.800
<v Moshe>one's own sense of rational right and wrong.

00:55:21.182 --> 00:55:26.602
<v Moshe>It's a bit of a controversial subject, but I mean, I've been autistic my whole

00:55:26.602 --> 00:55:29.342
<v Moshe>life as far as I know, diagnosed or not.

00:55:29.662 --> 00:55:35.202
<v Moshe>And diagnosed autistics and even undiagnosed autistics are naturally very narcissistic,

00:55:35.362 --> 00:55:39.722
<v Moshe>selfish, and driven by their own impulses and hyperfocuses.

00:55:40.442 --> 00:55:45.782
<v Moshe>And if I were the kind of person that was obsessed, for example, with, I don't know,

00:55:46.042 --> 00:55:50.562
<v Moshe>insects, and I spent two and a half hours talking to you about insects,

00:55:50.662 --> 00:55:52.582
<v Moshe>and when you wanted to talk about something else, I was like,

00:55:52.742 --> 00:55:56.522
<v Moshe>you're not being fair to me because this is what's interesting to me,

00:55:56.562 --> 00:55:57.922
<v Moshe>and you should care about me.

00:55:57.922 --> 00:56:04.122
<v Moshe>Then I am operating out of my sense of values, which are to be a contributing

00:56:04.122 --> 00:56:12.522
<v Moshe>partner, to be a good husband, to be a good father, and to do things that are useful for the family.

00:56:12.702 --> 00:56:15.762
<v Leah>But that's understandable in both directions. I understand that.

00:56:15.942 --> 00:56:19.722
<v Leah>But what I'm trying to get at, or maybe it's not even a process that happens

00:56:19.722 --> 00:56:21.982
<v Leah>for you, is when I've decided I don't want something,

00:56:22.522 --> 00:56:27.502
<v Leah>I don't even get the impulse the impulse is like no why would I want that because

00:56:27.502 --> 00:56:32.522
<v Leah>I don't want it so there's no control like I don't get to step two where there's

00:56:32.522 --> 00:56:36.402
<v Leah>a control mechanism involved or where I've done it and then I have to backtrack or whatever

00:56:37.262 --> 00:56:43.502
<v Moshe>Because sometimes things are a little bit difficult for me for example I don't

00:56:43.502 --> 00:56:48.222
<v Moshe>play video games anymore because it's an area where I end up losing myself but

00:56:48.222 --> 00:56:52.842
<v Moshe>I watch a lot of YouTube shorts that have to do with video games.

00:56:53.302 --> 00:57:00.562
<v Moshe>And sometimes I catch myself and I bring myself down a few steps on my self-esteem

00:57:00.562 --> 00:57:05.382
<v Moshe>because I'm doing something that while, you know, it, it, it,

00:57:05.522 --> 00:57:07.822
<v Moshe>it attends to something that's inside my,

00:57:08.022 --> 00:57:10.902
<v Moshe>my desire to pursue something.

00:57:10.902 --> 00:57:16.382
<v Moshe>It is not productive to who I want to be. It is productive.

00:57:17.275 --> 00:57:22.595
<v Moshe>Not only not productive, it is counterintuitive. And it could be argued by certain

00:57:22.595 --> 00:57:24.195
<v Moshe>people in the autistic community.

00:57:24.435 --> 00:57:27.655
<v Moshe>If you want to do it, you shouldn't deny yourself the right to do something

00:57:27.655 --> 00:57:31.095
<v Moshe>that makes you happy. But that's the point. It doesn't make me happy.

00:57:31.095 --> 00:57:32.395
<v Leah>That's the thing. If it made you happy,

00:57:32.575 --> 00:57:35.715
<v Moshe>Absolutely. It doesn't make me happy. It's just, oh.

00:57:35.915 --> 00:57:36.935
<v Leah>This is a video about

00:57:36.935 --> 00:57:40.175
<v Moshe>Some video game that I used to like. I wonder what's going on there.

00:57:40.395 --> 00:57:43.535
<v Moshe>Nope. Not going to watch that because I don't care about that anymore. Right.

00:57:43.795 --> 00:57:47.715
<v Leah>That's where I am. I wouldn't even go there. I'd be like, I've decided

00:57:47.715 --> 00:57:48.475
<v Speaker2>I don't care about this

00:57:48.475 --> 00:57:51.675
<v Leah>Anymore. I'm not even going to search it or look at it or watch it.

00:57:52.155 --> 00:58:00.355
<v Moshe>Because you can reform yourself and your ability to function based on what you know is rational.

00:58:00.555 --> 00:58:04.595
<v Moshe>But you can also admit that there is going to be a part of your body or part

00:58:04.595 --> 00:58:10.235
<v Moshe>of your mind that is irrational and does things that are counterintuitive.

00:58:10.235 --> 00:58:16.435
<v Moshe>And until that part of my sense of self is eliminated completely,

00:58:16.435 --> 00:58:19.455
<v Moshe>then I will never be at a 10.

00:58:19.995 --> 00:58:22.235
<v Moshe>Because I can't...

00:58:23.315 --> 00:58:24.515
<v Moshe>Okay, so...

00:58:24.515 --> 00:58:27.875
<v Leah>Do you think that that's attainable? Yes, I do. Okay.

00:58:29.115 --> 00:58:34.235
<v Moshe>They... I don't know if it's Midrash or Hasidus or whatever.

00:58:34.495 --> 00:58:40.095
<v Moshe>But Jewish thought states that there are three kinds of people.

00:58:40.235 --> 00:58:48.035
<v Moshe>People who engage entirely in good deeds, people who engage entirely in wicked

00:58:48.035 --> 00:58:51.895
<v Moshe>deeds, and people who are sort of in the middle. And the majority of people are in the middle.

00:58:52.335 --> 00:58:58.355
<v Moshe>And you want to make it, a lot of people want to make as their goal,

00:58:58.655 --> 00:59:08.175
<v Moshe>the desire to engage in so much goodness that you lose the very inclination to do evil.

00:59:08.175 --> 00:59:11.215
<v Moshe>And a lot of people are more there or less there.

00:59:11.575 --> 00:59:19.775
<v Moshe>And the idea that a person can achieve a level of righteousness that is so high

00:59:19.775 --> 00:59:27.035
<v Moshe>that the idea of doing anything even remotely selfish or out of sync with that

00:59:27.035 --> 00:59:28.595
<v Moshe>doesn't even enter their mind.

00:59:29.135 --> 00:59:34.415
<v Moshe>They never get the inclination to be bad or do something selfish or do something

00:59:34.415 --> 00:59:40.235
<v Moshe>wicked. they are holy to the extent of holy but most people.

00:59:41.510 --> 00:59:46.470
<v Moshe>Have instances where they engage in things that they realize either at the time

00:59:46.470 --> 00:59:50.010
<v Moshe>or later on were not useful or helpful for them.

00:59:50.230 --> 00:59:52.530
<v Moshe>And that's why we have holidays like Yom Kippur.

00:59:52.970 --> 00:59:57.510
<v Moshe>So we can say, you know what? I did all of these things and I'm sorry.

00:59:58.150 --> 01:00:02.410
<v Moshe>But if you get to a point where you actually never engage in anything that you

01:00:02.410 --> 01:00:06.750
<v Moshe>ever have to be sorry for, then you've sort of reached the highest level. But very few people.

01:00:06.750 --> 01:00:08.630
<v Leah>Ever get there. I don't know that that's reasonable.

01:00:09.090 --> 01:00:12.810
<v Moshe>But you see, that is kind of where I'm going. But I'm not trying to achieve perfection.

01:00:13.290 --> 01:00:16.010
<v Moshe>I'm trying to achieve perfection as I see it,

01:00:16.250 --> 01:00:23.370
<v Moshe>which is that we would be engaged in a conversation where you would look at

01:00:23.370 --> 01:00:28.710
<v Moshe>me and say, this person did this really horrible thing. You would never do something like that.

01:00:29.070 --> 01:00:31.030
<v Leah>I do that all the time. Right.

01:00:31.290 --> 01:00:35.670
<v Moshe>But you could say you would never do something like that because in your mind,

01:00:35.870 --> 01:00:40.210
<v Moshe>I never would, even though I had in the distant, distant past.

01:00:40.350 --> 01:00:40.490
<v Leah>Right.

01:00:41.050 --> 01:00:47.570
<v Moshe>And I want to get to a place where that is the case for myself as well as for

01:00:47.570 --> 01:00:51.610
<v Moshe>other people, where I would say, that's crazy. Why would anyone do that?

01:00:52.150 --> 01:00:55.670
<v Moshe>Because I would have completely forgotten the fact that I used.

01:00:55.670 --> 01:00:56.370
<v Speaker2>To do that at

01:00:56.370 --> 01:00:59.410
<v Moshe>Some point because it doesn't enter into my mind.

01:00:59.570 --> 01:01:04.230
<v Leah>But realistically for you, you as a person are much harder on yourself than

01:01:04.230 --> 01:01:08.950
<v Leah>I think me or the world at large would be because you never really did anything

01:01:08.950 --> 01:01:13.070
<v Leah>that was that bad. It's not like you were killing puppies or anything.

01:01:13.350 --> 01:01:17.970
<v Leah>No, I haven't read it. You just did things that were not in line with what you wanted.

01:01:18.290 --> 01:01:22.910
<v Leah>And sometimes you made it other people's problem, which was when I had issues with it. Right.

01:01:23.130 --> 01:01:26.190
<v Leah>Like you needed to be there for something, but instead you were on your phone

01:01:26.190 --> 01:01:30.990
<v Leah>playing a video game. That was when it became clear that that was not okay.

01:01:31.290 --> 01:01:32.990
<v Moshe>That was a big thing.

01:01:33.150 --> 01:01:35.990
<v Leah>But a lot of people will say, oh, the video game thing, it's very,

01:01:36.170 --> 01:01:39.490
<v Leah>very touchy, because especially a lot of autistics are into video games and

01:01:39.490 --> 01:01:41.290
<v Leah>they use it to calm down, and I get that.

01:01:41.590 --> 01:01:47.550
<v Leah>But it's not about the game. Like, I myself even toy with video games sometimes. It's not about that.

01:01:48.070 --> 01:01:52.630
<v Leah>If you were distracted away from important things by buttonhole making,

01:01:52.650 --> 01:01:55.050
<v Leah>I'd have trouble with you making buttonholes.

01:01:55.210 --> 01:01:59.450
<v Leah>It's not about the thing. It's about the result of it, if that makes sense. Exactly.

01:02:00.541 --> 01:02:04.761
<v Moshe>Like, you know, the difference between people who have a few drinks and alcoholics.

01:02:04.921 --> 01:02:06.181
<v Leah>I mean, we're both, I guess.

01:02:06.481 --> 01:02:11.341
<v Moshe>Yes. Because, I mean, for certain people, you can do certain things,

01:02:11.461 --> 01:02:13.581
<v Moshe>but then you can sort of put it down and walk away from it.

01:02:14.581 --> 01:02:17.981
<v Leah>Neither of us has an alcohol problem to speak of. So we have times where we

01:02:17.981 --> 01:02:20.141
<v Leah>can drink a lot and we have times where we don't drink at all.

01:02:20.721 --> 01:02:24.601
<v Leah>But there are people in our lives who are alcoholics and shouldn't even have one drink.

01:02:25.601 --> 01:02:29.721
<v Moshe>And that's perfectly acceptable. And people go, well, you mean never play any

01:02:29.721 --> 01:02:30.981
<v Moshe>video games? Like never.

01:02:31.741 --> 01:02:35.961
<v Moshe>No, because number one, it's not helpful. And number two, I have in the past

01:02:35.961 --> 01:02:40.921
<v Moshe>engaged in activity where I would lose myself in a video game.

01:02:40.921 --> 01:02:45.061
<v Moshe>And I would say, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna play it for a few minutes.

01:02:45.061 --> 01:02:46.601
<v Moshe>And then a day and a half later.

01:02:47.041 --> 01:02:51.801
<v Moshe>It's like, did you do all those things? Oh, shoot, I've completely forgot. And that can't happen.

01:02:51.801 --> 01:02:54.261
<v Leah>And I find that unacceptable, but it's not about the video game.

01:02:54.401 --> 01:02:58.621
<v Leah>Again, if it was buttonhole making or if it was botany or any of those things,

01:02:58.821 --> 01:03:02.741
<v Leah>I would have a problem with it just for the resulting effect it had on our life.

01:03:03.121 --> 01:03:07.761
<v Leah>Because your interest shouldn't necessarily be everybody else's problem. Right.

01:03:08.141 --> 01:03:14.241
<v Moshe>And that is the definition of an addiction, actually, is if it affects your

01:03:14.241 --> 01:03:17.441
<v Moshe>life, your ability to function, the lives of those around you,

01:03:17.721 --> 01:03:20.101
<v Moshe>then it's a problem and you need to stop doing it.

01:03:20.141 --> 01:03:23.881
<v Leah>Like cigarettes. Again, I maintain one of the only things I ever was addicted

01:03:23.881 --> 01:03:25.021
<v Leah>to in my life was cigarettes.

01:03:25.721 --> 01:03:28.501
<v Leah>And it would be like me saying, you know what, I'm going to have a couple of

01:03:28.501 --> 01:03:32.241
<v Leah>cigarettes and then it'll be fine. You would look at me and be like, no, you can't.

01:03:32.681 --> 01:03:38.481
<v Moshe>Right. And that's reasonable. It's reasonable for someone who is addicted.

01:03:38.481 --> 01:03:41.361
<v Leah>And then like I would smell and I would make the house smell up and it would

01:03:41.361 --> 01:03:45.981
<v Leah>cost us money and you would worry about my health. And then that would be me making it your problem.

01:03:46.181 --> 01:03:48.581
<v Leah>Right. So you would have the right to have a boundary there.

01:03:48.901 --> 01:03:52.641
<v Moshe>Exactly. So, I mean, we've been talking about this for about an hour.

01:03:52.821 --> 01:04:00.521
<v Moshe>And it's really nice that we could come to the decision to do an episode based

01:04:00.521 --> 01:04:05.441
<v Moshe>on this metric that I set for myself and end up having enough material to talk

01:04:05.441 --> 01:04:06.421
<v Moshe>about it for over an hour.

01:04:06.521 --> 01:04:07.261
<v Leah>I mean, I knew we would.

01:04:07.701 --> 01:04:13.841
<v Moshe>You're very smart. So I just want to take the remainder of the time that we

01:04:13.841 --> 01:04:18.401
<v Moshe>have left, which is minus six minutes, but it doesn't matter.

01:04:19.261 --> 01:04:23.001
<v Moshe>To sort of go through a bit of, I guess, some housekeeping.

01:04:23.421 --> 01:04:23.601
<v Speaker2>So,

01:04:26.020 --> 01:04:30.240
<v Moshe>The October high holidays in Israel sort of took over our life,

01:04:30.420 --> 01:04:35.700
<v Moshe>and it really did lead to a lack of production on our part.

01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:40.480
<v Moshe>So we'd really like to get back to a place where we can do weekly episodes,

01:04:40.780 --> 01:04:46.500
<v Moshe>even if we have to make them shorter, because it's very important for the health

01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:52.240
<v Moshe>of the podcast and for all of our thousands of listeners to have a regular schedule

01:04:52.240 --> 01:04:55.520
<v Moshe>that they know on this day or that day that we're going to come up with a new episode generally.

01:04:56.080 --> 01:05:00.020
<v Moshe>And that's something I would like to achieve as a personal goal for myself.

01:05:00.540 --> 01:05:05.180
<v Moshe>We had a really interesting interview with Rabbi Simcha Weinstein a couple of

01:05:05.180 --> 01:05:09.020
<v Moshe>weeks ago that is clearly going to turn into a multi-part series.

01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:13.640
<v Moshe>We're trying to coordinate with him a time to record the next step of that.

01:05:14.020 --> 01:05:19.580
<v Moshe>You might have seen on our social media that we have a really interesting episode

01:05:19.580 --> 01:05:26.380
<v Moshe>coming up on the 17th of November, which is in a couple weeks, with Dr.

01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:30.620
<v Moshe>Temple Grandin, who is, I mean, for lack of...

01:05:30.620 --> 01:05:31.980
<v Leah>I can't even believe she's willing to

01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:35.000
<v Moshe>Talk to us. I can't even start. She's a hero of ours.

01:05:35.340 --> 01:05:38.880
<v Moshe>She's written a lot of books. You can look her up on any number of things.

01:05:39.200 --> 01:05:43.240
<v Moshe>We're going to talk to her about smart kids and how they view the world,

01:05:43.860 --> 01:05:46.020
<v Moshe>parenting tips and tricks for us.

01:05:46.340 --> 01:05:51.660
<v Moshe>We'll see if we can get Avram to come on for a bit or at least to introduce him to Dr.

01:05:51.820 --> 01:05:55.380
<v Moshe>Grandin because she's really looking forward to meeting him.

01:05:55.820 --> 01:05:59.620
<v Moshe>We're going to try and get some other guests lined up eventually.

01:06:00.040 --> 01:06:02.080
<v Moshe>We still have some amazing sponsors.

01:06:03.260 --> 01:06:09.360
<v Moshe>With Munchables, munchables.ca. Arc Therapeutics is still a wonderful sponsor of ours.

01:06:09.540 --> 01:06:14.620
<v Moshe>And the coupon code NOWUNO10 for 10% off of your order is still working.

01:06:14.620 --> 01:06:16.160
<v Moshe>It's still functioning.

01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:22.260
<v Moshe>I actually got a message on our Facebook a week or so ago from someone who used

01:06:22.260 --> 01:06:26.860
<v Moshe>the NOWUNO10 code to make an order with Arc Therapeutic.

01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:30.120
<v Moshe>And they were very happy with what they got. So thanks again for them.

01:06:31.040 --> 01:06:35.720
<v Moshe>Absolutely keep listening. Keep following, keep subscribing so you know when

01:06:35.720 --> 01:06:41.760
<v Moshe>we come up with new episodes and help us to get to a place where we can be one

01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:45.780
<v Moshe>of the top neurodiversity-related podcasts out there.

01:06:46.500 --> 01:06:51.060
<v Moshe>We're on nowyouknowwhatautistic.podbean.com. Thank you to Podbean.

01:06:51.200 --> 01:06:54.680
<v Moshe>I don't thank Podbean enough for hosting us at this time.

01:06:55.680 --> 01:06:59.000
<v Moshe>Our show is on Apple Music. It's on Spotify.

01:06:59.040 --> 01:07:05.880
<v Moshe>It's on Podcast Addict. It's on all the apps that you would normally use to check us out.

01:07:06.280 --> 01:07:10.500
<v Moshe>Last I checked, I think we're almost at 8,000 downloads.

01:07:10.780 --> 01:07:11.540
<v Speaker2>That's amazing.

01:07:11.560 --> 01:07:15.320
<v Leah>We started as a little baby. We were excited when we had 11 downloads.

01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:17.660
<v Moshe>So keep downloading. Keep listening.

01:07:18.020 --> 01:07:20.780
<v Moshe>Refer your friends. Refer your coworkers. Refere your neighbors.

01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:26.980
<v Moshe>Refer your neighbors. Refer your, you know, anyone.

01:07:27.500 --> 01:07:32.380
<v Moshe>Listen to us as you work. Listen to us as you go to sleep. listen to us on your

01:07:32.380 --> 01:07:34.980
<v Moshe>commute, and keep tuning in.

01:07:35.380 --> 01:07:38.980
<v Moshe>And thank you for listening. We'll talk to you again soon.

01:07:41.200 --> 01:07:46.640
<v Music>

01:07:47.260 --> 01:07:52.000
<v Moshe>Well, that's the end of our episode, and now you know one autistic just a little bit better.

01:07:52.540 --> 01:07:56.780
<v Moshe>Now, something you may not know about some autistics is that we often struggle

01:07:56.780 --> 01:07:58.560
<v Moshe>with ending social interactions.

01:07:59.680 --> 01:08:05.740
<v Leah>So Leah it's okay Moshe I'll take care of it thank you for listening to Now

01:08:05.740 --> 01:08:07.800
<v Leah>You Know One Autistic see you next week

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