Now You Know One Autistic! Podcast
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<v Leah>How do you think she feels?
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<v Leah>And that was, I know a lot of people say maybe it's dumb, but that was an early
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<v Leah>intervention that was just as important for him as turn-taking or speech therapy. Yes.
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<v Moshe>I keep referring back to the chat we had with Dr.
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<v Moshe>Grandin last night because it was phenomenal. And I urge you once more time,
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<v Moshe>and I promise this is it, please listen to it.
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<v Moshe>Like I said, the audio quality is not the best, especially on her end.
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<v Moshe>Because, again, from Colorado to Jerusalem, it's a heck of a distance to travel online.
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<v Moshe>But one of the things that she talked about that was actually crucial,
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<v Moshe>because we talked about the basics like eye contact and whatever,
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<v Moshe>is that it's not only desirable, but necessary in early intervention for neurodivergent
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<v Moshe>children to teach them the very basic, basic, basic.
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<v Leah>Yes, but what you want to do is teach them the basics that are going to make them successful.
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<v Leah>Right. You don't need to teach them, again, to look in somebody's eye or to
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<v Leah>have a firm handshake, things like that.
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<v Leah>But you do need to teach them, hey, when my mouth is smiling, I feel happy.
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<v Leah>Until this day, if Avram doesn't know what he's feeling, which isn't really
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<v Leah>that big of a problem for him, it shows that early intervention works.
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<v Leah>He can look in the mirror and go, my face is happy. Okay, I'm happy.
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<v Moshe>Right. And that works for me now, but it was not something that I was used to.
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<v Leah>To be honest with you, while we were having this argument, I think I kind of did it with you.
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<v Leah>Because you were like, I'm fine And then I was like, look in the mirror,
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<v Leah>does your face look fine? And you were like, oh.
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<v Moshe>Because I struggled and currently struggle, I suppose, with the concept of personal
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<v Moshe>feelings matching external results.
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<v Moshe>Because like I said, I will react to things before I understand what I'm reacting
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<v Moshe>to and why I'm reacting that way. So...
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<v Leah>Right. So a lot of times it's like, that thing kind of pissed me off.
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<v Leah>And me trying to help you, I guess, process your feelings. And so what? Right.
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<v Leah>So that doesn't mean you get to act that way toward people.
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<v Moshe>Right. So that comes into emotional regulation as well, because on one hand,
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<v Moshe>you have to identify what the emotion is, which is very important.
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<v Moshe>You know, when this happens, it's okay to be sad. When this happens, it's okay to be mad.
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<v Moshe>When someone talks meanly to you, it's okay to be upset.
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<v Moshe>But that's important because identifying the emotion is like step one.
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<v Leah>That's also kind of a little bit scary because we're all taught to teach children
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<v Leah>that any emotion they have is okay.
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<v Leah>But the reality of the situation is not every emotion is okay in every situation.
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<v Leah>No, that's really nuanced.
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<v Moshe>It really is. And it's again, nuance. That's the,
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<v Moshe>that's the autistic N word because it's very, it's very difficult because nuance
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<v Moshe>is so, is so unable to, to be held down.
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<v Moshe>Cause if you, if you say to someone, what's, what's nuance?
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<v Moshe>It is. It's nuanced. Nuance is nuanced.
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<v Leah>Absolutely. And if you teach every kid that every emotion is okay,
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<v Leah>then you have to say, well, hitting other kids and biting them is okay.
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<v Moshe>Right.
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<v Leah>We have a really funny story, actually, where Avram was in pre-K,
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<v Leah>and they called me to tell me that he had been bitten.
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<v Leah>And do you know what my first reaction was? Oh, thank God he was the one that
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<v Leah>was bitten and didn't do the biting. because it's so much easier to deal with
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<v Leah>making him feel better from getting bitten than a kid who thinks biting is okay. Right.
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<v Moshe>Because reaction, especially when you have a child that is not clear on proper
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<v Moshe>expressions of emotional regulation.
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<v Moshe>And again, this is not the fault of being neurodivergent. If you're like three
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<v Moshe>or four years old, you're not necessarily always going to know how to respond
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<v Moshe>to emotions because it's not like an autistic thing.
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<v Moshe>It's a common child thing, but normally they figured out.
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<v Moshe>If you're upset, they teach you how to react to being upset.
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<v Moshe>When you're feeling angry, what are some things that you can do when you're
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<v Moshe>angry that don't hurt other people? When you're sad.
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<v Leah>Use your words. Use your words. Give your hands to yourself.
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<v Moshe>Yeah, all those things. When you're sad, what are some healthy expressions of being sad?
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<v Moshe>You know, happy is always great. But like the negative stuff.
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<v Leah>Not always. If you see a dead cat on the side of the road and you're happy about
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<v Leah>it, you have to examine that.
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<v Moshe>Too. Well, that's a little bit different.
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<v Leah>But I've seen it.
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<v Moshe>It has. Because not being clear about what a proper expression is and expectations are important.
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<v Moshe>Dr. Grandin talks a lot about how she grew up in the 50s and she learned manners.
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<v Leah>She expressed to us, basically, that every adult in her life essentially was giving her ABA.
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<v Leah>Because they were correcting every poor behavior she had and giving her rewards
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<v Leah>when she did the thing and giving her consequences when she didn't.
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<v Moshe>But nowadays, the modern conception of that is that's horrible.
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<v Moshe>That's awful. Why can't you just let them be themselves?
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<v Moshe>Dr. Grandin does come from an earlier school, but I would argue the school that
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<v Moshe>I support. Because yes, absolutely.
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<v Moshe>If you're autistic and you have a child or a young adult that's struggling in
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<v Moshe>certain ways, There needs to be some, not all, but some accommodation for it.
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<v Moshe>But you have to also teach them how to operate, even if it's fake, even if it's scripted.
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<v Leah>She said in the 50s, adults had a lot of authority. So even store clerks would correct her.
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<v Leah>But even then, they gave her reasonable accommodations. They wouldn't say you
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<v Leah>can't touch anything, but they would say you can only touch a few things in
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<v Leah>the store and the things that you're interested in buying because she was touching
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<v Leah>everything, for example.
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<v Moshe>But learning matters. When someone says, hi, how are you? You're supposed to
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<v Moshe>respond, I'm fine, thanks.
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<v Moshe>Teaching small talk, which is something that I've discussed I struggle with.
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<v Moshe>What's the point of small talk? Why do people have to engage in small talk?
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<v Moshe>Well, it's because that is how people communicate.
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<v Leah>I remember I literally had to express to you because you said you hated it because it was fake.
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<v Leah>But I sort of pulled back the veil for you a little bit. And I said, we all know it's fake.
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<v Leah>Everybody engaging in it knows it's fake. It's just like a security blanket.
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<v Leah>If you don't engage in it, it makes people think you're weird or wrong or awkward
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<v Leah>somehow. We all know it's fake.
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<v Moshe>Exactly. It's the, hey, how's it going? Or what's up? Or how's it going?
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<v Moshe>Like, how are you doing now? Or how are you feeling?
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<v Leah>It happens to me in my job.
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<v Moshe>Or how are you today?
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<v Leah>Every day. People call me, hey, how are you doing today? Anyway, this is what I need.
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<v Leah>Like, they don't even wait for you to answer because they don't care. It's fake for everyone.
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<v Leah>But it's just ingrained for whatever reason.
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<v Moshe>But sometimes they wait for a response. And you have to give a response.
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<v Moshe>And the response is generally fine or okay.
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<v Leah>No one wants to know, like, if your pinky toe hurts. It's the reality.
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<v Moshe>And you have to learn the appropriate response. Dr.
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<v Moshe>Grandin was taught that when someone greets her, she has to respond by, Hi, I'm Temple Grandin.
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<v Moshe>And she would do that over and over and over and over because that was the scripted
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<v Moshe>response that was expected of her.
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<v Moshe>And in those instances and in all these instances, it's better to answer with
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<v Moshe>a scripted response than not at all.
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<v Moshe>Because people expect it. As you said, people know it's fake.
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<v Moshe>If you ask someone, how are you doing?
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<v Moshe>99.9% of the time, they're going to say fine and then move on.
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<v Moshe>They're not going to give you their whole life story and why their toe hurts.
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<v Leah>I do that to be obnoxious. I do do that to people, but I do it to be obnoxious.
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<v Leah>I'm actually a little hungry, and my left toe, I stubbed it.
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<v Leah>But I'll be doing that if I'm trying to be annoying to someone.
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<v Moshe>But you told me that. I said, I struggle with that. And you said,
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<v Moshe>just say fine and move on. That's all they want to hear from you.
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<v Moshe>It doesn't have to be like a whole federal court case. They ask you how you're
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<v Moshe>doing. We know you hate small talk.
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<v Moshe>Just say fine and move on with the conversation.
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<v Leah>Because ironically, it's the fastest way out of the small talk,
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<v Leah>which you hate anyway. So just do it. So anyway, emotions.
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<v Moshe>I've learned to adapt to small talk. But that is part of the emotions.
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<v Moshe>These sorts of things have to do with emotions because I talk a lot about these half-baked things.
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<v Moshe>Like, you know, you, you, you put, you, you, you put, you put,
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<v Moshe>you make cookies, you make cookies, chocolate chip cookies. Everyone likes chocolate chip cookies.
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<v Moshe>You make chocolate chip cookies. You put them on the pan, you put them in the oven.
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<v Moshe>You set it for whatever you set it for 10 minutes, something like that.
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<v Moshe>And when they're done, you pull them out and you go, this is a chocolate chip cookie.
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<v Moshe>And then it's delicious and you eat it. And then once you turn your head for
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<v Moshe>a second, it's gone. Like there's no more cookies. They're all eaten.
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<v Moshe>But when you know you're making cookies, you know that the cookies have to be
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<v Moshe>done. And this is actually a way that you would talk to a child.
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<v Moshe>And this is therefore the way that I talk to myself. Because in a lot of ways,
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<v Moshe>the way I rationalize things is like you would talk to a child.
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<v Moshe>You would say, if I was making you chocolate chip cookies and you love chocolate
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<v Moshe>chip cookies, because who doesn't love chocolate chip cookies?
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<v Moshe>Would you prefer the cookies to come out of the oven baked? Or would you like
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<v Moshe>me to put them in for like 30 seconds, pull them out and go,
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<v Moshe>here you go. Here's a whole wad of dough for you.
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<v Leah>Right.
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<v Moshe>Not to say that chocolate chip cookie dough isn't also a thing.
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<v Moshe>But that is how you deal with emotions.
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<v Moshe>Is it better to react to something when you're not really sure what it is?
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<v Moshe>You have this initial reaction. You walk into the kitchen. You go,
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<v Moshe>it smells like cookies because I'm taking them out and eating them now. You go, no.
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<v Moshe>First, you smell the cookies. Then you wait for them to be done.
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<v Moshe>Then you take them out of the oven.
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<v Moshe>First, you feel the emotion. Then you go, okay, what's this emotion?
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<v Moshe>How is it making me feel? What is the appropriate response?
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<v Moshe>Is it a valid emotion? Is it a negative emotion? Is it an emotion based in fat?
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<v Moshe>And once that emotion is fully baked, then you can take it out of the oven and hand it to someone.
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<v Moshe>What you said made me upset. And here's my cookie.
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<v Moshe>You know, you wouldn't say, here's a wad of dough.
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<v Moshe>And you look at it and go, what are you giving me this? Well,
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<v Moshe>it smelled like cookies, so I gave it to you.
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<v Moshe>You wouldn't give a half-baked emotion to someone.
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<v Leah>But you said something even more significant when we were discussing this topic.
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<v Leah>You said if you're trying to make chocolate chip cookies, but you put ground beef into it. Right.
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<v Speaker2>Like...
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<v Speaker2>The wrong emotion is going into it before you even bake it.
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<v Leah>Like you're not going to put chocolate chips and ground beef into something
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<v Leah>and call it either a meatloaf or a cookie. Like you have to decide what you're making.
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<v Moshe>You would, you would like hand somebody this cookie made out of ground beef
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<v Moshe>and you're like, what the heck is this?
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<v Moshe>It's a chocolate chip cookie. It's like, it doesn't look like one.
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<v Moshe>No, it is. I'm telling you, that's what it is.
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<v Leah>That's essentially how our conversations went. Right.
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<v Moshe>You, why are you upset?
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<v Leah>This is a meatball Moshe. And you were like, no, it's not. How dare you?
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<v Moshe>Yeah, why are you so sad? I'm not sad. I'm happy. That's not a cookie. That's a meatball.
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<v Moshe>You know, that's what it was. You wouldn't just create, like,
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<v Moshe>you wouldn't look at, like, this meatball with chocolate chips and go, well, that's a cookie.
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<v Moshe>You would go, I think that you would, but that's the way I was.
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<v Moshe>And I would come up with these half-baked or weird or opposite ingredients,
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<v Moshe>just stick them together and go, I think this is a cookie and you're like,
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<v Moshe>it doesn't look like a cookie to me.
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<v Moshe>Maybe you should look at it and tell yourself, hold it up to the mirror.
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<v Moshe>Does that look like a cookie to you? No, that looks like a meatball with chocolate chips in it.
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<v Moshe>Okay, so did you maybe that's...
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<v Leah>Did you want to have a discussion about why you made a meatball with chocolate
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<v Leah>chip cookies? And then it's a whole rabbit hole.
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<v Moshe>And that is the essence of how emotional processing works.
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<v Leah>Like, Moshe, I respect this recipe, but would you like to discuss why you chose
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<v Leah>to do this? Exactly. And it's a whole thing.
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<v Moshe>Right. So, like, so too, you don't want to make chocolate chip meatballs.
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<v Moshe>Maybe you do. I don't know. I'm sure there's a recipe for it somewhere.
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<v Moshe>But you don't necessarily want to make a chocolate chip meatball.
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<v Moshe>You don't necessarily want to act in a negative way to a situation that doesn't call for it.
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<v Moshe>And if the situation calls for it, then you should respond with the appropriate,
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<v Moshe>you know, with the appropriate response.
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<v Moshe>And I was throwing all of these half-baked things at people and going,
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<v Moshe>here's my emotion. Like, this is not a fully baked emotion.
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<v Moshe>Well, maybe you should take it back and put it in the oven some more.
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<v Moshe>And you'll discover that it's actually not a meatball. It's a chocolate chip cookie or vice versa.
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<v Moshe>So from that, from that amusing analogy.
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<v Leah>It's a really good analogy.
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<v Moshe>We got that before you react to something, you need to let it bake.
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<v Moshe>Number one, because you don't want a fully – you don't want like a half-baked
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<v Moshe>emotion to be presented because nobody wants to eat a mound of dough.
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<v Moshe>Maybe they do. I don't know.
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<v Moshe>But also, you have to know what it is. You have to decide, is this going to
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<v Moshe>be a meatball or is this going to be a chocolate chip cookie?
00:43:41.317 --> 00:43:47.177
<v Moshe>And you don't know if you don't let it finish cooking or whatever. So you have to decide...
00:43:48.197 --> 00:43:54.157
<v Moshe>I feel like I want to be upset by this, but if I let it cook a little bit more
00:43:54.157 --> 00:44:00.657
<v Moshe>and then I look at it, I'll notice that it's actually me feeling bad about something that I did.
00:44:00.937 --> 00:44:05.217
<v Moshe>Or maybe it's not even something worth thinking about at all.
00:44:05.337 --> 00:44:09.477
<v Moshe>Maybe I looked at the oven and I said, that's probably going to be a meatball.
00:44:09.637 --> 00:44:13.037
<v Moshe>And then I opened the oven and it turned out there was nothing in there at all.
00:44:14.057 --> 00:44:17.417
<v Moshe>Maybe you made meatloaf the night before and I thought you were making meatballs
00:44:17.417 --> 00:44:18.957
<v Moshe>now, but there's no meat in the oven.
00:44:19.997 --> 00:44:23.837
<v Moshe>So sometimes you think that there's an emotion there. You think you know what
00:44:23.837 --> 00:44:28.417
<v Moshe>the emotion is, but then if you give it a chance to wait and you process it
00:44:28.417 --> 00:44:31.577
<v Moshe>through, it turns out there's no actual emotion at all.
00:44:32.037 --> 00:44:37.097
<v Moshe>That thing that Avram did that I thought was really annoying was just a thing.
00:44:37.237 --> 00:44:39.417
<v Moshe>It wasn't a big deal. It's not even worth talking about.
00:44:39.817 --> 00:44:44.597
<v Moshe>Or the time that that person went to the bathroom or whatever,
00:44:44.617 --> 00:44:47.177
<v Moshe>when I was on the way to the bathroom, It was very frustrating.
00:44:47.597 --> 00:44:50.797
<v Moshe>But upon further thought, they had every right to go to the bathroom.
00:44:50.957 --> 00:44:54.017
<v Moshe>And I was just kind of standing there going, I think I might want to go to the bathroom now.
00:44:54.357 --> 00:44:57.797
<v Moshe>So I'm not going to be mad at them because I took too much time.
00:44:57.997 --> 00:44:58.877
<v Moshe>Like, it's not their fault.
00:44:59.857 --> 00:45:05.177
<v Moshe>So sometimes an emotion is either not the emotion you think it is or it's not
00:45:05.177 --> 00:45:08.557
<v Moshe>an emotion at all that's worth having because it goes through the flow chart or whatever.
00:45:09.157 --> 00:45:13.657
<v Moshe>And in those instances, you're not going to get there if you instantly react.
00:45:13.917 --> 00:45:21.857
<v Moshe>But there's a caveat to that. But sometimes a person will expect a default emotion.
00:45:22.797 --> 00:45:28.757
<v Moshe>And if they don't get at least something, then they're going to be like, what's going on here?
00:45:29.117 --> 00:45:31.717
<v Moshe>So, for example, if.
00:45:32.177 --> 00:45:33.077
<v Leah>That is true.
00:45:33.297 --> 00:45:38.017
<v Moshe>If someone is like, I don't know, my girlfriend broke up with me.
00:45:38.277 --> 00:45:44.777
<v Moshe>And you're just kind of standing there going, I don't have anything made at the moment.
00:45:45.957 --> 00:45:49.357
<v Moshe>They're going, no, but for this, you need to have this made.
00:45:49.557 --> 00:45:53.097
<v Leah>But that's actually a true thing, even for neurotypical people.
00:45:53.357 --> 00:45:57.197
<v Leah>If someone says my girlfriend broke up with me, I'm going to tell you the truth.
00:45:57.357 --> 00:46:00.637
<v Leah>I don't necessarily care about their girlfriend's situation at that time.
00:46:00.877 --> 00:46:03.957
<v Leah>But I'll have, like you say, some pre-baked cookies in the back.
00:46:04.217 --> 00:46:04.617
<v Moshe>Right.
00:46:04.837 --> 00:46:08.177
<v Leah>Going, oh, I'm so sorry that happened. Would you like to talk more about it?
00:46:08.357 --> 00:46:11.257
<v Leah>And then sometimes if they talk more about it, then I'll start to develop some
00:46:11.257 --> 00:46:13.837
<v Leah>feelings about their situation and be able to give them good advice.
00:46:13.837 --> 00:46:17.237
<v Leah>But I won't necessarily care right off the bat if they say that.
00:46:17.537 --> 00:46:21.097
<v Moshe>But that is where conditioning comes in.
00:46:21.597 --> 00:46:29.097
<v Moshe>Because you don't necessarily need a fully baked emotion for a default situation.
00:46:29.237 --> 00:46:35.537
<v Moshe>Because certain things do have to be trained. There's a lot of nuance.
00:46:35.797 --> 00:46:40.197
<v Moshe>And where there's nuance, you have some time in the kitchen to make cookies
00:46:40.197 --> 00:46:46.437
<v Moshe>or meatballs or whatever. But for clear-cut situations that only can have one reaction,
00:46:47.486 --> 00:46:53.026
<v Moshe>You do have to have a scripted, sometimes fake response to fill space. Absolutely.
00:46:53.166 --> 00:46:57.066
<v Moshe>If someone says, I just got a great new job, you wouldn't say,
00:46:57.186 --> 00:46:59.786
<v Moshe>hold on a second. I have to figure out how that makes me feel.
00:47:00.066 --> 00:47:06.166
<v Moshe>You're going to go mazel tov or congratulations or that's amazing or good for you or my dog just died.
00:47:06.286 --> 00:47:08.526
<v Moshe>Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry. You don't go, you know what?
00:47:08.706 --> 00:47:11.106
<v Moshe>I have to process how that makes me feel.
00:47:11.366 --> 00:47:15.426
<v Moshe>I'll give you a call later and let you know if I'm sad about that.
00:47:15.426 --> 00:47:18.206
<v Moshe>Because the default is you're going to be sad.
00:47:18.206 --> 00:47:19.386
<v Leah>You're going to be sad later.
00:47:19.386 --> 00:47:23.286
<v Moshe>You might not feel sad or happy or angry, whatever, at the moment,
00:47:23.286 --> 00:47:25.526
<v Moshe>but you need to give them something.
00:47:25.746 --> 00:47:29.526
<v Moshe>And in that instance, handing them pre-baked cookies or here's some dough.
00:47:29.786 --> 00:47:31.926
<v Moshe>I don't know what it's meant to be, but here's something.
00:47:32.306 --> 00:47:35.346
<v Leah>Everybody's got a package of cookies in the cupboard somewhere.
00:47:35.506 --> 00:47:39.326
<v Moshe>Right. And if someone comes over because they suffered a tragic circumstance,
00:47:39.906 --> 00:47:43.266
<v Moshe>you need to have those cookies in the back of your cupboard to give them.
00:47:43.406 --> 00:47:45.206
<v Moshe>They might not be the cookies they like.
00:47:45.426 --> 00:47:48.046
<v Moshe>They might not be as good as fully baked cookies that you made yourself,
00:47:48.046 --> 00:47:51.646
<v Moshe>but it's better to give them cookies than just to have them sit there and go,
00:47:51.766 --> 00:47:56.206
<v Moshe>so nothing then, no cookies at all, not even a cup of coffee or whatever.
00:47:56.706 --> 00:48:02.126
<v Moshe>So you have to have some pre-baked cookies in the pantry at all times just in
00:48:02.126 --> 00:48:07.086
<v Moshe>case that you need to act on the fly. You need to have something ready to go.
00:48:07.666 --> 00:48:11.706
<v Moshe>It's not going to be like the best thing. It's not going to be fully baked even,
00:48:11.926 --> 00:48:13.046
<v Moshe>but it's going to be something.
00:48:13.046 --> 00:48:16.446
<v Leah>But that's, again, one of those things that's kind of on, you know,
00:48:16.586 --> 00:48:19.526
<v Leah>automatic for me and analog for you. Right.
00:48:20.106 --> 00:48:23.186
<v Leah>So sometimes it's helpful for you if you say, in this situation,
00:48:23.186 --> 00:48:25.626
<v Leah>what should I do? And I give you like four things you can say.
00:48:25.986 --> 00:48:30.886
<v Leah>And then you're like, okay, I'm going to put those in my cookie jar and save them for later.
00:48:31.886 --> 00:48:35.726
<v Moshe>And scripted responses and templates and macros or whatever you want to call
00:48:35.726 --> 00:48:37.366
<v Moshe>them are really important.
00:48:37.946 --> 00:48:44.626
<v Moshe>Because, again, we talk about expected response. When someone comes to you with
00:48:44.626 --> 00:48:50.666
<v Moshe>a negative situation, you want to respond with a negative response.
00:48:51.771 --> 00:48:55.311
<v Moshe>If someone says, I mean, depending on the situation, if someone said,
00:48:55.391 --> 00:48:58.491
<v Moshe>I just got divorced or whatever, you would say, that's terrible,
00:48:58.491 --> 00:49:02.811
<v Moshe>unless you know that their ex was a terrible person. Then you'd go, that's fantastic.
00:49:03.211 --> 00:49:07.411
<v Moshe>But that's the N-word. That's nuance. You don't know unless you know the situation.
00:49:07.911 --> 00:49:12.391
<v Moshe>For certain things, you don't actually know. And in those instances,
00:49:12.691 --> 00:49:16.771
<v Moshe>depending on the situation, you're going to have to rely on the person's relationship with you.
00:49:17.191 --> 00:49:19.451
<v Moshe>They're going to come to you with a complex situation.
00:49:20.091 --> 00:49:23.111
<v Moshe>They're going to wait for a response from you. And you're going to be like,
00:49:23.251 --> 00:49:26.571
<v Moshe>I have no idea what I'm supposed to feel or do in this instance.
00:49:26.731 --> 00:49:28.371
<v Moshe>Could you give me some time to think about it?
00:49:29.251 --> 00:49:35.011
<v Moshe>Or I'm going to do something, but I have to think about it for a minute or two
00:49:35.011 --> 00:49:38.091
<v Moshe>or five or 60 or whatever it takes.
00:49:38.711 --> 00:49:43.171
<v Moshe>But that's more for a relationship. When you have a relationship or a partnership
00:49:43.171 --> 00:49:44.631
<v Moshe>or a marriage or whatever with someone.
00:49:44.811 --> 00:49:47.571
<v Leah>The person that you're close to can sense when something's disingenuous.
00:49:47.571 --> 00:49:52.911
<v Leah>So you owe them the, and that's a thing that we've established is mostly okay
00:49:52.911 --> 00:49:56.571
<v Leah>in our relationship where you can be like, I don't know how I feel about this. Can I have a second?
00:49:57.271 --> 00:50:01.591
<v Leah>Or you'll give me like a pre-baked response that we have. So if I'm crying, just hug me.
00:50:01.831 --> 00:50:05.771
<v Leah>And then we can talk about later when you understand what's going on.
00:50:05.891 --> 00:50:09.071
<v Moshe>Right. And then it doesn't come across as disingenuous, although it might,
00:50:09.291 --> 00:50:10.511
<v Moshe>if they don't understand you.
00:50:11.378 --> 00:50:15.358
<v Moshe>Or if they don't know the situation. But if someone comes to you with some terrible
00:50:15.358 --> 00:50:19.958
<v Moshe>news, your default response might be, I'm really sorry that happened.
00:50:19.958 --> 00:50:21.258
<v Moshe>You might give them a hug.
00:50:21.418 --> 00:50:26.178
<v Moshe>You might express remorse. You might say, that's terrible. If you want to talk
00:50:26.178 --> 00:50:28.938
<v Moshe>about it, or if you need some sort of support, I'll be there for you.
00:50:29.258 --> 00:50:32.218
<v Moshe>But then you might go away and like an hour or two later, come back and you
00:50:32.218 --> 00:50:34.478
<v Moshe>go, you know, I was thinking about that thing you said.
00:50:35.138 --> 00:50:40.198
<v Moshe>And on top of feeling sorry for what happened, I'm also really angry about it. And here's why.
00:50:40.638 --> 00:50:44.198
<v Moshe>Because now you're presenting the situation as you've thought it.
00:50:44.378 --> 00:50:47.318
<v Moshe>And then the person, if they love you and care about you and understand you,
00:50:47.358 --> 00:50:48.518
<v Moshe>we're not going to go, wait a second.
00:50:49.258 --> 00:50:53.118
<v Moshe>Why didn't you say that like an hour ago? Why are you giving me a completely
00:50:53.118 --> 00:50:54.118
<v Moshe>different response now?
00:50:54.258 --> 00:50:58.198
<v Leah>So that is one thing that in our relationship we had to leave space for.
00:50:58.458 --> 00:51:03.298
<v Leah>So even if something comes up a week later and you need to talk about it, we leave space for that.
00:51:03.738 --> 00:51:07.158
<v Leah>But there does have to be, especially if I'm upset, like an immediate response.
00:51:07.178 --> 00:51:09.838
<v Leah>And I told you the default response is they're there, hug.
00:51:10.198 --> 00:51:13.698
<v Leah>Right. You know, I'm sorry about that. And can we talk about it more later?
00:51:14.218 --> 00:51:17.778
<v Leah>Totally acceptable in our relationship, might not be in other people's relationship.
00:51:18.058 --> 00:51:20.538
<v Moshe>Right, because you're going to be in the ballpark. We had a discussion about
00:51:20.538 --> 00:51:25.418
<v Moshe>this and I talked about it with you and I expressed concern because I'm like,
00:51:25.558 --> 00:51:29.078
<v Moshe>why would you want an immediate response if it's not fully thought out?
00:51:29.578 --> 00:51:34.838
<v Moshe>And your response, quite rightly, would be, okay, you might not fully feel sadness
00:51:34.838 --> 00:51:38.218
<v Moshe>or whatever, based on what I'm telling you.
00:51:38.998 --> 00:51:41.778
<v Moshe>But when you think about it a little bit, you're not going to have,
00:51:41.878 --> 00:51:44.538
<v Moshe>like, a completely opposite reaction to it.
00:51:45.058 --> 00:51:48.158
<v Leah>Right. I mean, if I'm sad, when would you ever not want to hug me and say,
00:51:48.278 --> 00:51:50.178
<v Leah>there, there? Like, that's a really safe response.
00:51:50.398 --> 00:51:53.298
<v Moshe>You're sad. There, there. And then I come back to our relationship and go,
00:51:53.378 --> 00:51:55.758
<v Moshe>you know what? I'm actually really happy you're sad about that.
00:51:56.058 --> 00:52:01.158
<v Moshe>It's not going to happen. So I can pretty much bank. I can, like, I can cash a check.
00:52:02.115 --> 00:52:06.175
<v Moshe>Based on this emotion, knowing that there's going to be some emotional money
00:52:06.175 --> 00:52:10.015
<v Moshe>in the bank when the check clears, it's not going to be, wait a second,
00:52:10.015 --> 00:52:12.295
<v Moshe>you don't actually feel sad about this, you feel happy.
00:52:12.615 --> 00:52:15.695
<v Moshe>That's never going to happen unless you're like a terrible person.
00:52:15.815 --> 00:52:16.115
<v Leah>Exactly.
00:52:16.635 --> 00:52:17.915
<v Moshe>And that has to be the response.
00:52:17.935 --> 00:52:22.935
<v Leah>That's a positive, but also there have been some negatives. I recall not even
00:52:22.935 --> 00:52:25.295
<v Leah>too long ago, it must have been within the last month or so,
00:52:25.415 --> 00:52:26.495
<v Leah>where we were having an argument.
00:52:27.055 --> 00:52:30.655
<v Leah>And I looked at you, I took myself out of this situation.
00:52:30.715 --> 00:52:35.575
<v Leah>And instead of being your wife at the time, I was somebody who was talking to a neurodivergent.
00:52:35.855 --> 00:52:39.495
<v Leah>Right. And I looked at you and I said, when you realize what an ass you're being,
00:52:39.615 --> 00:52:41.455
<v Leah>you are going to feel so bad about this.
00:52:41.875 --> 00:52:44.775
<v Leah>And at the time you were like, no. And then two hours later,
00:52:44.875 --> 00:52:48.515
<v Leah>you're like, oh, I'm such an ass. I'm so sorry. And I was like, see. Right.
00:52:48.915 --> 00:52:54.995
<v Moshe>And that, and that goes back to the not throwing meatballs at someone until you let them fully bake.
00:52:55.655 --> 00:53:02.735
<v Moshe>Because if you respond to, okay, so as I was sort of explaining it,
00:53:02.955 --> 00:53:07.115
<v Moshe>if you live based on reaction rather than emotion,
00:53:07.495 --> 00:53:15.115
<v Moshe>then a lot of the time you will find that you are going to, as you say, make an ass of yourself.
00:53:15.555 --> 00:53:20.135
<v Moshe>Because if you don't have all the facts, or you haven't fully thought about
00:53:20.135 --> 00:53:24.935
<v Moshe>it, or you haven't considered the whole picture,
00:53:25.455 --> 00:53:28.755
<v Moshe>the theory of mind thing that you talked about with me many times,
00:53:29.015 --> 00:53:34.535
<v Moshe>then you're going to end up having this reaction that once it's out of your
00:53:34.535 --> 00:53:40.475
<v Moshe>mouth or once it's projected, once you set that, like you...
00:53:41.410 --> 00:53:47.270
<v Moshe>Logging your answer. Is that your final answer? You're going to rage and slam things and get mad?
00:53:47.390 --> 00:53:49.610
<v Moshe>Is that going to be your final answer to this situation?
00:53:49.790 --> 00:53:54.750
<v Moshe>Or would you like a few more minutes to think about whether or not you want
00:53:54.750 --> 00:53:55.810
<v Moshe>that to be your reaction?
00:53:56.490 --> 00:53:59.630
<v Moshe>Ideally, this is something that's going on internally in your brain,
00:53:59.790 --> 00:54:03.290
<v Moshe>where the brain goes, okay, so this is something that happened.
00:54:03.850 --> 00:54:05.390
<v Moshe>I'm going to storm around and
00:54:05.390 --> 00:54:08.790
<v Moshe>yell at everyone. And then some part of your brain goes, wait a second.
00:54:09.270 --> 00:54:13.750
<v Moshe>I don't know that that's going to have the response that you think it might.
00:54:13.950 --> 00:54:16.110
<v Moshe>Maybe you want to think about that a little bit more.
00:54:16.810 --> 00:54:20.730
<v Moshe>And then you go, you know what, I'm going to change my answer to offer sympathy
00:54:20.730 --> 00:54:23.170
<v Moshe>and support and concern.
00:54:24.610 --> 00:54:29.710
<v Moshe>That's final answer. And then you win the million dollars. So I mean, it works out in the end.
00:54:29.970 --> 00:54:31.150
<v Leah>Exactly. Exactly.
00:54:32.690 --> 00:54:39.470
<v Moshe>So I mean, emotional processing delay is, ironically, a very nuanced topic because
00:54:39.470 --> 00:54:43.530
<v Moshe>in certain instances, it's acceptable. In certain instances, it's not.
00:54:43.750 --> 00:54:52.490
<v Moshe>In certain instances, you can offer a response that is within the range of what
00:54:52.490 --> 00:54:55.510
<v Moshe>you're probably going to come to on your own, hopefully.
00:54:55.850 --> 00:55:06.170
<v Moshe>And certain times, you really do want to come up with a well-thought-out plan.
00:55:06.630 --> 00:55:10.210
<v Moshe>And there's a bit of a dovetail, sort of a side quest, if you will,
00:55:10.410 --> 00:55:12.950
<v Moshe>when it comes to emotional processing delay.
00:55:13.290 --> 00:55:18.870
<v Moshe>And that is the struggle that a lot of people, not just neurodivergence,
00:55:19.070 --> 00:55:28.590
<v Moshe>but a lot of people have with saying yes or saying no in certain situations particularly no yeah
00:55:28.590 --> 00:55:29.890
<v Leah>But what's wrong with that I'm not sure yet,
00:55:31.040 --> 00:55:32.060
<v Leah>I think that's more honest.
00:55:32.240 --> 00:55:36.940
<v Moshe>Because people in this world, both in Israel and in the West,
00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:40.780
<v Moshe>or, you know, depending on where you're listening to, probably in your own country as well,
00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:47.880
<v Moshe>they have this belief that they ask a question, they need an immediate response.
00:55:48.220 --> 00:55:54.020
<v Moshe>Or they ask about a situation and they want a reaction now.
00:55:54.500 --> 00:55:58.060
<v Moshe>Like, what do you mean you need a second to think about it? I need you to answer me now.
00:55:58.580 --> 00:56:02.640
<v Moshe>Can you come or can you not? Like, is this okay with you or is it not?
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:04.140
<v Moshe>And then they'll put pressure on you.
00:56:04.720 --> 00:56:08.640
<v Moshe>This is a big thing in sales. Like, no, I need an answer now.
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:10.500
<v Moshe>Like, this needs to be resolved.
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:17.020
<v Moshe>And I'm not sure is just like a circle back to, well, what is your chief obstacle?
00:56:17.160 --> 00:56:18.160
<v Moshe>What is holding you back?
00:56:19.300 --> 00:56:21.000
<v Leah>Your attitude would be my answer.
00:56:21.100 --> 00:56:25.240
<v Moshe>Your attitude. My answer is going to be, I have a processing delay,
00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:27.620
<v Moshe>so I can't give you an answer right now.
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:30.480
<v Moshe>And I don't want to say something that I'll regret.
00:56:30.940 --> 00:56:33.380
<v Leah>It's the origin of let me talk to my wife.
00:56:33.460 --> 00:56:34.320
<v Moshe>Let me talk to my wife.
00:56:34.460 --> 00:56:37.740
<v Leah>I say the same thing. Let me talk to my husband. Sometimes I have no intention
00:56:37.740 --> 00:56:39.520
<v Leah>of doing the thing, but they can't argue with that.
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:42.540
<v Moshe>Right. But people want an answer now, now, now, now, now. What's wrong?
00:56:42.560 --> 00:56:44.160
<v Moshe>What's wrong? What's wrong? Why can't you tell me?
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:49.420
<v Moshe>And honestly, in those instances, a lot of people develop a pathology where
00:56:49.420 --> 00:56:51.620
<v Moshe>they really do struggle to say no.
00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:55.520
<v Moshe>Or alternatively, there are people that struggle to say yes because they're
00:56:55.520 --> 00:56:56.940
<v Moshe>so uncertain about everything.
00:56:57.720 --> 00:57:01.360
<v Moshe>That are like, are you sure? I don't know. Raya has that problem a lot.
00:57:01.580 --> 00:57:04.680
<v Moshe>But which one do you want? I don't know. Which one do you think I want?
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.600
<v Moshe>You know, what do you want to order? I don't know. Could you order for me?
00:57:08.120 --> 00:57:09.460
<v Moshe>Like just the whole idea.
00:57:09.700 --> 00:57:12.200
<v Leah>We're trying very hard to work on that with her. She's very resistant.
00:57:12.560 --> 00:57:17.400
<v Leah>Like it's not the end of the world if you want either a hamburger or pasta. Right.
00:57:18.040 --> 00:57:22.660
<v Moshe>But a lot of that does come from a desire to not upset people.
00:57:22.660 --> 00:57:28.220
<v Moshe>And they attach a lot of emotion to choices that are really insignificant.
00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:32.900
<v Leah>But really, what is our emotional stake in her dinner choice?
00:57:34.407 --> 00:57:38.187
<v Moshe>It could be an emotional steak or it could be I don't want to choose the soup
00:57:38.187 --> 00:57:41.807
<v Moshe>and then later I'll be like, oh, shoot, I should have the salad or something.
00:57:42.287 --> 00:57:43.467
<v Moshe>Like that's a silly example,
00:57:43.507 --> 00:57:45.427
<v Leah>But that's like an example. No, it's true.
00:57:45.607 --> 00:57:49.967
<v Moshe>Like what do you want to order? I don't know. Like I'm not going to – like I
00:57:49.967 --> 00:57:52.667
<v Moshe>don't want to order this and then be like, oh, I should have had the lasagna or something.
00:57:53.187 --> 00:57:55.467
<v Moshe>But it's just a meal. Like it's just food.
00:57:56.007 --> 00:57:59.787
<v Moshe>You'll order it next time. Or they'll do the thing that I used to do where I
00:57:59.787 --> 00:58:01.487
<v Moshe>can't make a decision, so I'll buy everything.
00:58:01.927 --> 00:58:05.347
<v Moshe>I really like this one but I also like that one I'm just going to get them both
00:58:05.347 --> 00:58:06.347
<v Moshe>I'm just going to get them both
00:58:06.347 --> 00:58:10.827
<v Moshe>and eat them both and then I'll know I'll know that which one I like yes
00:58:10.827 --> 00:58:13.527
<v Leah>And then you'll be 400 pounds but you'll know and then I'll be 400 pounds.
00:58:14.347 --> 00:58:17.467
<v Moshe>And then I'll be 400 pounds and be like you
00:58:17.467 --> 00:58:19.427
<v Leah>Know what how did I become 400 pounds.
00:58:19.427 --> 00:58:22.767
<v Moshe>I don't know do I like banana bread with or without chocolate chips I should
00:58:22.767 --> 00:58:27.847
<v Moshe>make two loaves and eat them both so that is that is a dangerous consequence you
00:58:27.847 --> 00:58:31.247
<v Leah>Have to make me banana bread I miss your baking we should let bananas.
00:58:31.247 --> 00:58:36.067
<v Moshe>We should let bananas you know, rot a little bit. So in conclusion,
00:58:36.867 --> 00:58:41.487
<v Moshe>emotional processing delay, much like other kinds of processing delay,
00:58:42.007 --> 00:58:47.567
<v Moshe>is, it's a part of, it's a part of neurodiversity, neurodivergency,
00:58:47.807 --> 00:58:48.927
<v Moshe>autism, whatever you want to call it.
00:58:49.127 --> 00:58:55.087
<v Moshe>And it does have to be allowed for under many circumstances, although not all.
00:58:55.727 --> 00:59:02.027
<v Moshe>And it's part of those, those things that make us such unique and oftentimes frustrating people.
00:59:02.527 --> 00:59:07.487
<v Leah>So unique, frustrating, as everything we discuss on the podcast,
00:59:07.867 --> 00:59:11.887
<v Leah>difficult but not impossible, high expectations.
00:59:12.207 --> 00:59:16.607
<v Leah>So I want to close on that, actually. You and Dr. Temple Grandin both agree
00:59:16.607 --> 00:59:19.687
<v Leah>on something very interesting because it.
00:59:19.687 --> 00:59:21.607
<v Speaker2>Is so not
00:59:21.607 --> 00:59:24.667
<v Leah>Practiced anymore amongst neurodivergent people. Right.
00:59:24.807 --> 00:59:27.847
<v Leah>Because of the whole accept everything and accept everybody and accommodate
00:59:27.847 --> 00:59:30.087
<v Leah>everything culture that we have right now.
00:59:30.627 --> 00:59:37.667
<v Leah>Which is, I want for myself somebody to have high expectations and low accommodation
00:59:37.667 --> 00:59:39.547
<v Leah>of me. Right. So why is that?
00:59:40.307 --> 00:59:46.667
<v Moshe>So it's a great thing to close on, and I do have some programming notes after this.
00:59:46.847 --> 00:59:55.127
<v Moshe>But the Temple Grandson's philosophy and my philosophy is high expectation, low accommodation.
00:59:55.127 --> 01:00:00.507
<v Moshe>Whereas nowadays, especially with the research and advent and all the different
01:00:00.507 --> 01:00:06.027
<v Moshe>things, into neurodiversity and the redefinition of it based on the continuing
01:00:06.027 --> 01:00:08.307
<v Moshe>modification of the DSM criteria,
01:00:09.669 --> 01:00:16.849
<v Moshe>We end up in this instance, which is actually the opposite of the way things were in the 50s,
01:00:17.009 --> 01:00:23.749
<v Moshe>probably through to the 90s, or maybe even early 2000s, where you have this
01:00:23.749 --> 01:00:31.269
<v Moshe>desire to accommodate everything and everyone about everything in every way.
01:00:31.269 --> 01:00:34.069
<v Moshe>And you are, and Dr.
01:00:34.209 --> 01:00:39.729
<v Moshe>Grandin, her research and her experience many, many years shows it,
01:00:39.889 --> 01:00:45.049
<v Moshe>that you're turning out these autistics who end up going through childhood into
01:00:45.049 --> 01:00:49.109
<v Moshe>adulthood with no skills, with no ability to function,
01:00:49.289 --> 01:00:56.389
<v Moshe>with no ability to do the basics because they were accommodated too much.
01:00:56.909 --> 01:01:00.749
<v Moshe>And you see this, and this is where I'm going to get onto my controversial soapbox,
01:01:00.929 --> 01:01:04.569
<v Moshe>but now I have a partner. I can stand beside the great Dr. Temple Grandin.
01:01:05.069 --> 01:01:10.109
<v Moshe>You have these children who are never made to eat anything more than the foods
01:01:10.109 --> 01:01:13.849
<v Moshe>that they like, who are never made to go anywhere that they don't feel comfortable,
01:01:14.029 --> 01:01:19.829
<v Moshe>who are never made to experience any stimuli that they find irritating or too
01:01:19.829 --> 01:01:26.469
<v Moshe>much, that are never made to be independent because it is easier for their mom
01:01:26.469 --> 01:01:28.749
<v Moshe>or their dad to cook for them,
01:01:28.889 --> 01:01:31.569
<v Moshe>clean for them, dress them, provide them every choice,
01:01:32.069 --> 01:01:35.949
<v Moshe>turn down all the lights everywhere they go, turn down all the music,
01:01:36.129 --> 01:01:38.889
<v Moshe>only take them to the movie theater during, you know,
01:01:40.269 --> 01:01:44.269
<v Moshe>Neurodiverse days where the lights are low and the sound is low and the light
01:01:44.269 --> 01:01:47.089
<v Moshe>and the colors are less bright.
01:01:48.429 --> 01:01:56.069
<v Moshe>And I said to Leia, and I said to many people, I grew up in the 80s and 90s
01:01:56.069 --> 01:02:00.749
<v Moshe>in Canada, and this was the age of the deathly peanut allergy.
01:02:00.869 --> 01:02:01.729
<v Leah>Oh, gosh, yes.
01:02:01.869 --> 01:02:08.229
<v Moshe>And even as a small child, my mother, you know, a blessed memory,
01:02:08.549 --> 01:02:14.949
<v Moshe>was someone who said very quite rightly actually
01:02:15.589 --> 01:02:18.489
<v Moshe>this is a child that is not meant to live
01:02:18.489 --> 01:02:21.729
<v Moshe>not because he has this allergy absolutely
01:02:21.729 --> 01:02:29.509
<v Moshe>not but because he is being accommodated to such an extent that he is not going
01:02:29.509 --> 01:02:37.109
<v Moshe>to be able to function outside of the real world because you can make your schools
01:02:37.109 --> 01:02:39.909
<v Moshe>peanut free, you can make your home peanut free
01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:46.420
<v Moshe>You can even theoretically go to restaurants and businesses that are peanut-free,
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:49.300
<v Moshe>but you can't control the world.
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:53.380
<v Moshe>You might be walking down the sidewalk and somebody that ate a peanut butter
01:02:53.380 --> 01:02:57.300
<v Moshe>and jam sandwich might accidentally breathe on you and send you into anaphylaxis.
01:02:57.340 --> 01:03:00.620
<v Leah>Yes, tragically and unironically, that boy that you're speaking of did pass
01:03:00.620 --> 01:03:02.280
<v Leah>away. He did. While we were still very young.
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:05.700
<v Moshe>Because he thought he was too cool for his EpiPen. And unfortunately,
01:03:06.240 --> 01:03:13.920
<v Moshe>you know, God rest his soul, he was a victim of that overindulgent idea.
01:03:14.260 --> 01:03:20.880
<v Moshe>And granted, autism very rarely leads to a person's death, but it also leads to non-function.
01:03:21.040 --> 01:03:24.740
<v Moshe>And I'm a perfect example, ironically, even though I didn't receive any support.
01:03:25.220 --> 01:03:30.660
<v Moshe>Because when you have early intervention, which Dr. Grandin absolutely supports.
01:03:30.900 --> 01:03:32.520
<v Leah>So do we.
01:03:32.520 --> 01:03:36.580
<v Moshe>Early intervention doesn't look like doing everything for the child.
01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:41.060
<v Moshe>It looks like teaching the child to do things on their own.
01:03:41.420 --> 01:03:48.240
<v Moshe>You find loud noises to be overwhelming, so you avoid all loud noises? No, no.
01:03:48.660 --> 01:03:53.420
<v Moshe>You are going to initiate the noises. She told the story about if you have a
01:03:53.420 --> 01:03:58.660
<v Moshe>child that is overstimulated and avoids the sound of the vacuum,
01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:03.960
<v Moshe>give the vacuum to the child and have them turn it on and off a few times and
01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:09.660
<v Moshe>if they have control over the loud noise and all the action and stuff with the vacuum,
01:04:09.900 --> 01:04:16.160
<v Moshe>they will associate that vacuum theoretically with less of an overwhelming experience
01:04:16.160 --> 01:04:20.460
<v Moshe>because they'll have control they can turn it on when they want to and if it
01:04:20.460 --> 01:04:24.640
<v Moshe>gets too noisy they can turn it off and if they do that enough times they'll be like oh,
01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:28.540
<v Moshe>I have control over this noise it's not so bad anymore more.
01:04:29.780 --> 01:04:31.640
<v Speaker2>It's like micro-dosing almost.
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:37.040
<v Moshe>You teach the child. When you meet someone, you say, hi, how are you doing?
01:04:37.340 --> 01:04:45.060
<v Moshe>When you experience a feeling of overstimulation, you don't punch people around you. You don't bite.
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:48.940
<v Moshe>You go, I'm feeling overwhelmed now. I'm going to leave the room.
01:04:49.240 --> 01:04:55.260
<v Moshe>When you are in a restaurant or a mall and there's a lot of loud noises,
01:04:55.600 --> 01:04:58.020
<v Moshe>I'm not going to leave. I'm going to breathe.
01:04:58.860 --> 01:05:02.500
<v Moshe>Yeah, that's what they told me in school.
01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:04.500
<v Leah>It sounds really cheesy, but it's terrible.
01:05:04.500 --> 01:05:08.240
<v Moshe>They said to me, don't leave, breathe. When you feel overwhelmed,
01:05:08.400 --> 01:05:11.780
<v Moshe>when you feel like you're feeling overstimulated, when you feel on the verge
01:05:11.780 --> 01:05:15.280
<v Moshe>of a meltdown, before it happens, when you can still control it,
01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:19.480
<v Moshe>which oftentimes you can't, but when you can, don't leave, breathe.
01:05:19.860 --> 01:05:23.600
<v Moshe>I know that this is hard for you. I know that this is overwhelming for you.
01:05:23.600 --> 01:05:26.940
<v Moshe>I need you to close your eyes and take a few deep breaths.
01:05:27.180 --> 01:05:31.260
<v Moshe>And you'll see that you are in a good place. You're in a safe place.
01:05:31.680 --> 01:05:34.040
<v Moshe>And everything is manageable.
01:05:34.600 --> 01:05:39.360
<v Moshe>And that is something that they need to teach the child. Because I'll tell you something.
01:05:39.580 --> 01:05:45.020
<v Moshe>That little boy that can't go into the mall because it's too noisy and so never
01:05:45.020 --> 01:05:49.140
<v Moshe>has to go in the mall is going to find it very difficult to go outside and have
01:05:49.140 --> 01:05:52.700
<v Moshe>traffic happen or an ambulance happen or a workplace where there's a lot of
01:05:52.700 --> 01:05:54.520
<v Moshe>talking and noise and typing.
01:05:54.680 --> 01:05:56.740
<v Moshe>Also in terms of adulthood,
01:05:57.040 --> 01:05:59.540
<v Leah>Because you're hoping that your child doesn't die in childhood, right?
01:06:00.040 --> 01:06:00.740
<v Speaker2>That's the goal, yes. They're going to
01:06:00.740 --> 01:06:02.860
<v Leah>Have to go in the mall. One day they're going to need, like,
01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:05.560
<v Leah>I don't know, scissors or a pair of pants or something.
01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:08.580
<v Moshe>Right. So small accommodations...
01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:13.360
<v Moshe>Does that look like? Well, he might take a few extra minutes.
01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:18.220
<v Moshe>It's okay if at first he's going to cover his ears, but he's not going to leave.
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:20.960
<v Moshe>He's going to stay there until he feels better.
01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:25.280
<v Moshe>Or that environment is really noisy, so he's going to walk out for a few minutes,
01:06:25.460 --> 01:06:27.260
<v Moshe>but then he's going to come back.
01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:31.160
<v Moshe>And that's what they told me. They didn't know I was autistic to save their lives.
01:06:31.380 --> 01:06:35.480
<v Moshe>But they said, okay, so you're overwhelmed by the noise and the sound and the
01:06:35.480 --> 01:06:37.980
<v Moshe>crowds and the people. So here's what we're going to do.
01:06:38.140 --> 01:06:40.940
<v Moshe>You're going to feel overwhelmed. You're going to stay as long as you can,
01:06:40.980 --> 01:06:41.780
<v Moshe>then you're going to leave.
01:06:42.180 --> 01:06:44.420
<v Moshe>You're going to go outside. You're going to count to 100.
01:06:45.120 --> 01:06:49.140
<v Moshe>Then you're going to go back. You're going to sit down and you're going to keep trying that.
01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:52.700
<v Moshe>You'll take as many breaks as you need, but you're going to get there.
01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:55.000
<v Moshe>You're going to talk yourself through it.
01:06:55.200 --> 01:06:59.480
<v Moshe>And then you'll see, and it was true, it sounds hokey, but it's exactly what happened.
01:07:00.200 --> 01:07:05.940
<v Moshe>You'll see that one day you'll be sitting in the class going,
01:07:06.160 --> 01:07:11.100
<v Moshe>wow, I've been here for like half an hour and I'm not trying to leave because
01:07:11.100 --> 01:07:13.280
<v Moshe>you're giving yourself, okay, now I'm going to try five minutes.
01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:15.620
<v Moshe>Now I'm going to try 10 minutes. Now I'm going to try 20 minutes.
01:07:15.900 --> 01:07:19.160
<v Moshe>And then before long, you'll often find the old stop, like you'll lose track
01:07:19.160 --> 01:07:21.200
<v Moshe>of, is it 25 minutes at 30 minutes?
01:07:21.380 --> 01:07:24.300
<v Moshe>I forget how long. Oh, wait a second. It was an hour. I'm already here. I'm done.
01:07:24.620 --> 01:07:26.740
<v Moshe>The class is over or the environment is over.
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:31.820
<v Moshe>I want to quickly finish on some programming notes.
01:07:32.580 --> 01:07:40.600
<v Moshe>So we're back now. We had a few unforeseen circumstances that kept us since October, actually.
01:07:41.240 --> 01:07:43.820
<v Moshe>Although if you're listening to this, there's going to be no interruption whatsoever.
01:07:43.900 --> 01:07:47.300
<v Moshe>You just keep going from where you left off. But if you're one of our regular
01:07:47.300 --> 01:07:48.800
<v Moshe>listeners, which we absolutely love,
01:07:49.856 --> 01:07:53.896
<v Moshe>This is going to now go back to your regular weekly schedule where we're going
01:07:53.896 --> 01:07:55.996
<v Moshe>to try to release at least one episode every week.
01:07:56.016 --> 01:08:01.356
<v Moshe>We can't promise on the day, like it'll be when we have some time and we have
01:08:01.356 --> 01:08:07.636
<v Moshe>some really busy times coming up and we're going to keep to the weekly schedule
01:08:07.636 --> 01:08:10.516
<v Moshe>as much as humanly possible without interruption.
01:08:10.736 --> 01:08:13.676
<v Moshe>This was unfortunately out of our control.
01:08:14.156 --> 01:08:19.656
<v Moshe>I also want to note that while we were on our hiatus, we passed 8,000 downloads.
01:08:19.856 --> 01:08:20.556
<v Leah>Amazing.
01:08:20.796 --> 01:08:27.196
<v Moshe>So that's just incredible. So as before, we're really, really happy to all the
01:08:27.196 --> 01:08:30.236
<v Moshe>people that continue to tune in to us.
01:08:30.476 --> 01:08:34.936
<v Moshe>We are very popular in the U.S. states of California and Texas.
01:08:35.396 --> 01:08:42.276
<v Moshe>We're really popular in New York. In Canada, we're really, really popular in Ontario and Quebec.
01:08:42.596 --> 01:08:47.036
<v Moshe>And to B.C., which is where we were previously, to a large extent,
01:08:47.136 --> 01:08:52.556
<v Moshe>that's very popular. We remain very popular in the United Kingdom,
01:08:52.756 --> 01:08:54.716
<v Moshe>particularly in England and Scotland.
01:08:55.316 --> 01:08:58.956
<v Moshe>You Welsh people have to step it up. You're being outdone.
01:09:00.176 --> 01:09:03.796
<v Moshe>We're gaining a lot of popularity in Australia, New Zealand,
01:09:04.096 --> 01:09:06.336
<v Moshe>Sweden, Germany, mostly Berlin.
01:09:06.656 --> 01:09:12.356
<v Moshe>So we're getting more audience. Share our podcast this episode with all of your
01:09:12.356 --> 01:09:13.636
<v Moshe>friends, all of your family.
01:09:13.936 --> 01:09:18.356
<v Moshe>Each episode is over an hour. So listen to it while you clean the house.
01:09:18.356 --> 01:09:19.616
<v Moshe>Listen to it while you're driving.
01:09:20.116 --> 01:09:23.856
<v Moshe>Listen to it while you go to sleep. I've been told my voice is very soothing at times.
01:09:23.976 --> 01:09:26.376
<v Leah>I woke up to your voice this morning. There you go. I was listening to my other
01:09:26.376 --> 01:09:28.056
<v Leah>podcasts and we popped on.
01:09:29.176 --> 01:09:33.556
<v Moshe>So just do whatever you need. I put up our PayPal link again.
01:09:34.156 --> 01:09:35.256
<v Leah>Patreon, we really.
01:09:35.256 --> 01:09:37.936
<v Moshe>Haven't figured out what to do, so I took it down for the time being.
01:09:38.276 --> 01:09:41.556
<v Moshe>But if you want to buy us a cup of coffee or you really like what I have to
01:09:41.556 --> 01:09:44.536
<v Moshe>say and you want to throw five bucks out of the way, that's great. You can do that.
01:09:45.296 --> 01:09:50.756
<v Moshe>And keep downloading, keep sharing. keep listening. And if you're listening
01:09:50.756 --> 01:09:54.836
<v Moshe>to us on Apple or Spotify or ListenNotes or Podcast Addicts,
01:09:54.896 --> 01:09:58.576
<v Moshe>and you have the ability to like or comment,
01:09:58.856 --> 01:10:01.736
<v Moshe>absolutely do that. We read everything that we get.
01:10:01.956 --> 01:10:06.736
<v Moshe>And if you keep liking episodes or podcasts, it'll actually climb it up the
01:10:06.736 --> 01:10:10.576
<v Moshe>listings, which will allow us to get higher in the rankings.
01:10:10.916 --> 01:10:15.476
<v Moshe>We would love to be the number one neurodiversity related podcast in the world.
01:10:15.896 --> 01:10:19.116
<v Moshe>We were able to get Dr. Temple Grandin to appear on the show.
01:10:19.556 --> 01:10:25.256
<v Moshe>We're going to try and get some other guests, both high profile and low profile in the future.
01:10:25.516 --> 01:10:29.336
<v Moshe>And of course, there'll be a lot more of Leia and I, and we'll try to get the
01:10:29.336 --> 01:10:32.296
<v Moshe>kids on the show at some point in the future.
01:10:32.856 --> 01:10:39.356
<v Leah>Okay. So quick, like two sentence, you know, summary. It's a lot of work working on your emotion.
01:10:39.576 --> 01:10:40.296
<v Moshe>It really is.
01:10:40.396 --> 01:10:42.096
<v Leah>Tell the listeners why it's worth it in the end.
01:10:42.096 --> 01:10:44.316
<v Moshe>If you're able to
01:10:45.706 --> 01:10:50.886
<v Moshe>like emotionally regulate yourself and you're able to identify why or how to
01:10:50.886 --> 01:10:56.686
<v Moshe>express your emotions, it allows you to be a more fully formed person and it allows you to function.
01:10:57.406 --> 01:11:03.266
<v Moshe>And the name of the game and the reason why we started the podcast is Leia and
01:11:03.266 --> 01:11:09.386
<v Moshe>I, for good or for bad, are in a relationship together because of the work we're putting in.
01:11:09.386 --> 01:11:14.566
<v Moshe>And through all of the ups and downs and trials and tribulations,
01:11:14.566 --> 01:11:22.526
<v Moshe>we have this level of understanding and patience with each other that makes it all worthwhile.
01:11:23.006 --> 01:11:32.646
<v Moshe>And in the end, ultimately, you have love and you get to experience all the
01:11:32.646 --> 01:11:39.006
<v Moshe>wonderful things that come from being a person who could pursue your dreams.
01:11:39.966 --> 01:11:41.266
<v Leah>I was going to say love.
01:11:41.606 --> 01:11:47.206
<v Moshe>Love is important. Love is all you need. Love is all you need. Love is all you need.
01:11:47.326 --> 01:11:47.826
<v Leah>All right.
01:11:48.046 --> 01:11:50.086
<v Moshe>Thank you. Thanks. See you next week.
01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:55.120
<v Music>
01:11:58.266 --> 01:12:02.926
<v Moshe>Well, that's the end of our episode. And now you know one autistic just a little bit better.
01:12:03.546 --> 01:12:07.706
<v Moshe>Now, something you may not know about some autistics is that we often struggle
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<v Moshe>with ending social interaction.
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<v Moshe>Actions. So, Leia?
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<v Leah>It's okay, Moshe. I'll take care of it. Thank you for listening to Now You Know
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<v Leah>One Autistic. See you next week.
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