Beyond the Awkward: Autistic Teens and the Pursuit of Love

Episode Title: Beyond the Awkward: Autistic Teens and the Pursuit of Love

Episode Number: 6

Release Date: May 5, 2024

Duration: 01:04:25

Episode Summary:

In this episode of Now You Know One Autistic, Moshe and Leah discuss the complexities of teenage romance, particularly for neurodivergent individuals. They share personal anecdotes and insights into the challenges of expressing love, understanding social cues, and navigating intimacy. The hosts emphasize the importance of open communication, setting boundaries, and respecting individual differences in relationships. The episode also touches on the significance of parental guidance and support for autistic teenagers in navigating romantic relationships.

Key Takeaways:

• Challenges of Teenage Romance for Autistics: The episode explores the unique challenges faced by autistic teenagers in expressing love, understanding social cues, and navigating intimacy.
• Importance of Communication and Boundaries: The hosts emphasize the importance of open communication, setting clear boundaries, and respecting individual differences in romantic relationships.
• Parental Guidance and Support: The episode highlights the role of parents in providing guidance and support to autistic teenagers in navigating the complexities of romantic relationships.
• Red Flags in Relationships: The hosts discuss potential red flags in relationships, such as disrespecting boundaries, not listening, and asking for favors too early.
• Positive Signs in Relationships: The episode also highlights positive signs in relationships, such as mutual respect, understanding, and genuine interest in each other.
•  

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• How autistic teenagers may express love and affection differently.
• The importance of clear communication and setting boundaries in relationships.
• How parents can support their autistic teenagers in navigating romantic relationships.
• Red flags to watch out for in relationships.
• Positive signs that indicate a healthy relationship.
•  

Quotes:

• "Autistic teenagers have very specific needs...when it comes to love and relationships." - Leah
• "It's important to explain...appropriate and inappropriate touch or appropriate and inappropriate actions." - Leah
• "You want to be with someone who is as excited to be around you as you are to be around them." - Leah

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Transcript:

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Music.

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Hi, I'm Moshe, and I'm autistic. I'm Leah, and I'm boring.

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Welcome to Now You Know One Autistic, a podcast about neurodiversity in couples,

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marriage, meltdowns, and making it all work.

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The opinions expressed in this podcast reflect the experience of one couple and one autistic.

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Nothing that you hear in this podcast should be taken as a medical opinion,

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and unless otherwise stated, no one is an accredited specialist in any of the

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many fields that comprise the autism spectrum.

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But as someone who is on the autism spectrum, I feel that my experiences will

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be very valuable to many of you, whether you're on the spectrum,

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a support person like Leah, or just a curious bystander.

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If you think that you or someone you care about may be autistic,

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consult your family doctor.

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Music.

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Hi misha hi leah how are you i'm good thank you good and so now we're at part

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two of loving spectrum yeah so last week on a very special episode of now you

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know when artistic leah and I shared our origin story in more detail.

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We sort of kind of raised it in our first episode, so you would have an idea of who we were.

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But last episode, I won't say last week, cause you might listen to this episode

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a week after that, you might listen to it right afterwards.

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We're not really sure yet, but last week our origin and a lot of the,

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we'll say details of our near misses and big misses and all the other things

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that happened were revealed.

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So you know a little bit more about what happened and not necessarily always so favorable light.

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And this week, we're going to, as we promised, touch more on the lighter side

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of our past and really get into specifically love and relationships.

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When it comes to autistic people and autistic teenagers and romantic feelings that develop.

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I would like to put a vocal display over here, actually.

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I get the feeling that there will be some adult topics coming forward,

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and maybe we might have some detailed descriptions of some more adult-themed characters.

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Things. So just to be aware of who's listening to this with you,

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it's not necessarily not for children, but younger listeners should probably

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have a trusted adult that they can ask questions to.

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Pretty much. So in the past, we talked a lot about some relatively benign stuff,

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but now we're getting into some more deeper discussions about things like intimacy and sex.

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I mean, puberty, it's on its own as a topic so

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it's it's not like like red and r or whatever but

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it's definitely like a gg13 meaning i guess

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we'll see where it goes and and if you notice a display on it

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that's why so where we

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left off last time was a lot

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of detail maybe too much detail for some of you guys about our relationship

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and how that happened various failures on our part in terms of you know sort

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of actuating the way that we felt about each other and how that sort of dovetailed

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in with how puberty hit both Moshe and I differently.

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And how we responded to it together

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and how each of us sort of- Or lack of response. Lack of response.

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And how we handled it individually. And it made for some difficult listening,

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perhaps, but it wasn't all bad.

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There were a lot of really keen stories, which we're looking forward to sharing.

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So now I would like to talk about teenagers in general, right?

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And what sort of tends to happen when you become a certain age,

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let's say for your typical, right?

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So you become a certain age, everybody knows the story, as I hope you do at

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this point that you've been to school.

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You know, you become a certain age and hormones go through your body and they

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cause you to have changes to your body and to grow up into,

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you know, a man or a woman or some other variety and person,

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which we're not going to touch too much on.

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And that causes a lot of changes in priorities and feelings.

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For a neurotypical, that can absolutely look like a straight line, right?

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So to give you an example of what happened with me, I hit puberty.

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I started to feel more interested in being romantic with other people.

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I started to feel more interested in dating. I started to feel physical,

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let's say, I don't know, can I say sexual?

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Sexual feelings for people. people and for me that

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was a straight line to sort of pursuing person

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right possibly or allowing other people to

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pursue me now what was difficult for me personally was i'm a girl i'm a girl

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and in montreal you go to high school in grade seven there's no middle school

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so right about the time when my body began to change and i started to get curves

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and i started to be really attractive active,

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I was sort of pulled out of my elementary school environment and thrown into

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school with, let's be honest,

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grown men who were graduating high school.

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And that caused some issues for me, as I had spoken about earlier,

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where boys would aggressively pursue me.

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And that was the message that I got, that boys aggressively pursue you,

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and it's your job to sort of fend them off or decide that you want to be with

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them and that's how life goes.

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So how did that look for you?

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So my line was, was somewhat less straight.

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And it really, it had to do with a,

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like I mentioned last week, that there seems to be a bit of a barrier sometimes

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when it comes to neurovergence and being aware of the feelings.

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Of course, obviously, you're not always going to know, but you can at least suspect.

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But with an autistic person who oftentimes will be developmentally delayed in

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a variety of ways, it's not to

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say that it's a universal thing or it's specifically targeted in one area.

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But speaking from my experience, as one autistic, I had feelings that you would

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normally associate with what's growing up, with maturity, with going through puberty.

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But I had absolutely no idea what they were or what to do with them or what they were referred to.

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So it's important now to highlight it again, Moshe, and I are talking about

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ourselves a lot to the point where it kind of feels a little bit indulgent.

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But please indulge us for a moment because

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rosha had a situation where he

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knew he loved me right because we loved each other forever

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since we were little right we were friends since we

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were seven and he then developed you know special feelings for me but he had

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no idea how to put those two things together right and i knew how to put those

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two things together and i knew based on my experience what was supposed to happen

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but none of those things were happening So in general,

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through some of my research and life experience.

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I found that it's actually quite typical for autistic teenagers to have challenges

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in expressing love verbally or in socially acceptable ways.

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So, for example, Moshe never, you know, gave me overtures or bought me flowers

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or technically asked me out on a date or kissed me goodbye at the end of a date.

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Things that you would come to expect, right?

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Right. But instead, he did some really cute and adorable things that only now

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am I beginning to understand were him saying, I love you, and I have romantic

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feelings for you, and I don't know I would do it.

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Because with autistics, often, and again, not all autistics,

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but with autistics, especially ones that struggle with communication.

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As I clearly see you do, we try to find other ways of expressing ourselves when

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we're not able to find the words, per se.

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So, a lot of them are completely involuntary, and we just do them because they feel right.

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And a lot of them are voluntary because he rationalized, or at least I rationalized.

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I have these feelings when I'm around Leah.

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I don't actually know what they are or what to do with them.

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I only know what I want to do, and I'm pretty sure she doesn't want me to do

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them. And so, I probably should talk to her about it, but I don't know if what

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I'm telling her is going to be the right thing.

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So, what I'll do instead is try to show her how I feel, and maybe she'll get it.

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All right. So, a lot of autistics will express love in actions or by sharing their interests.

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And again, retroactively, I can see that for what it was. And often there were

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a lot of special memories that I kept through my entire life,

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and I didn't really know why they meant so much to me.

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I don't know. Let's tell a cute story. Let's see. I'm trying to think.

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It was really, okay, so it was really annoying.

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But we often, for whatever reason, our parents always brought us to beaches and water parks.

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And almost without fail, he would come up to me, grab me in the water, and attempt to drown me.

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Explain what that means. I just wouldn't buy it. So, touch, when it comes to

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neurodivergence, is often a sign of trust and a sign of affinity.

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Because touch is always so welcome, and because a lot of neurodivergents struggle

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with touch, it's typically reserved, if at all, for people that we feel a particular closeness to.

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I didn't necessarily like to be touched

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by people that I didn't know or I

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didn't trust and it made me uncomfortable of course I

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would skip it up if people were telling me that I was rude but I love to touch

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Leah I love to touch her as much as I could find a reason to without seeming

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weird and sometimes while seeming weird and what I wanted to do was find a way of showing

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her that I enjoyed being close to her and I enjoy touching her.

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And as a boy, my particular technique was to be violent.

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Raffhausen. Yes. Not like violent, like punching her in the face,

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but like grabbing her and wrestling with her and finding excuses to like push

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her and Scott. It sounds really rough and mean.

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Oh, it was. But for my, you know, autistic brain, it was the closest that I

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could come to a romantic gesture.

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So at that point, I found it very annoying and I would put up with it to a point

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and then I would just get really angry and sort of stalk away onto the beach

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or by the pool or wherever it was and just sort of stew and get really upset

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because I didn't understand it.

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And I also want to point out now that the way it sounds, I understand,

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doesn't seem healthy, right?

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So touching without somebody's consent, not healthy.

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Acting violently towards another, not healthy. And we understand that.

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By no means are we encouraging anybody to do that.

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It's just an example of how Noshak actually inappropriately shown his team.

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And that's definitely something to discuss. discuss

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because again as i mentioned in in

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the last episode and in previous episodes i i

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was essentially raised without any understanding or acceptance that i was neurodivergent

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forget being autistic they they didn't understand why you know or or that why

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i did the things i did or or that there was anything else going on other than

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the fact that i was a very very difficult and emotional personal child.

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So nobody took the time to discuss with me appropriate.

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Contact so ultimately yeah this story is actually extremely romantic because.

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Again it begins with sort of inappropriate contact right

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and me being upset but then when he

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would see that i was upset his you know he would gather his head and he would

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gather his thoughts and he would come sitting next to me on the beach and he

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would say i'm sorry don't be mad at me and i would be like well i'm upset but

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you're my best friend so i love you and we would and then the next time I'd

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go to a beach, you would do it all over again.

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But that's a different topic.

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So I did that a lot. And I would,

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I mean, I would take time away from the things that interested me,

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or I would involve Leah in things that interested me as a way of involving her

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in my own inner circle of hyperfocus, or whatever you want to call it.

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It was all very subtle and very, I don't know, it was very meaningful to me

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and probably didn't mean much to her, at least not in the same context.

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But it was the best that I had at the time, so it was not something that would

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have been that uncommon for someone who was still trying to figure out what

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to do with what was going on.

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So the nugget of what we're trying to get to here is that autistic teenagers

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have very specific needs, actually, where this is considered.

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And again, it depends on the level of functionality, of course.

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If somebody is not available or much higher needs, this might not apply to them

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necessarily, but it might, because everybody has a need to feel loved and accepted, right?

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Exactly. So, autistic teenagers need extra support to help navigate emerging romantic teens.

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What are some of the things that you should talk about to your autistic teenager

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to make sure that they have the support?

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Well, first of all, okay, you're going to notice changes that are given with any other child.

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Because I noticed the obvious secondary sexual characteristics that you have expressing.

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Periods, breasts, body hair, height and growing, facial hair, all that stuff.

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So then you might want to take the time to sit down with them and not have a birds and a bees.

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Necessarily conversation where you know slaw day goes into tabby and all that

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stuff but you want to explain the things that might be obvious to an artypical

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person that are not obvious to an autistic person so the first thing i have

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written here is explain attraction.

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What's attraction so i mean when you when you look when you look at somebody

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or some person Whether it's a person you know, or a picture of a person, or whatever,

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certain feelings may arise that if you don't understand attraction.

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Might be confusing.

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And for somebody who understands a little bit more, it might be obvious,

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like, oh, I have a crush on that person.

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Or, oh, I think I really like this person.

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And I'm not really sure how it works in a typical situation because

209
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I'm not but what it worked for

210
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me or what it looked like for me rather was mostly

211
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unwelcome feelings that I didn't understand right so for

212
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me too and I can understand that they weren't

213
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unwelcome but when you're very attracted to

214
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somebody it can cause intense physical feelings in

215
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your body that can actually feel like sickness so

216
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i can understand why to somebody the struggles

217
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with you know sensory things it

218
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could be an issue like that whole butterflies and stuff like that

219
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right it could feel like being nauseous it

220
00:16:41,830 --> 00:16:44,690
could feel like having a fever it can feel like palpitations or

221
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being shortness of breath it could feel like unwelcome and

222
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unfamiliar things happening in your private parts area

223
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that you want to you're going to have the kinds of conversations that

224
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you would normally they have with your with your children regardless of whether

225
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they're neurodivergent genotypical but the the the crux of it when it comes

226
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to neurodivergence is really when it comes to things like the feelings that

227
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you may experience what they might mean.

228
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And really, what is appropriate and what is not.

229
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Because what a lot of neurodivergent struggle with is social cues.

230
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And social cues, especially when it comes to pursuing a relationship,

231
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are extremely important.

232
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Because it's a dance, really. And the inclination for every other thing is,

233
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I want it, so I'm going to get it.

234
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I like the look of that, so I'm going to vote close to it and look at it.

235
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I want to touch that, so I'm going to touch it.

236
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And a lot of that kind of mentality has to be explained.

237
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Because if you're a parent of an autistic child,

238
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or if you are a partner of an autistic person, person then you you may end up

239
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having to have a conversation about appropriate and inappropriate.

240
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Touch or appropriate and inappropriate action right so let's talk about a story

241
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again that if i wasn't who i was and you weren't who you were and we weren't

242
00:18:20,726 --> 00:18:26,346
so familiar could have gone very bad yes so this always goes for parents for

243
00:18:26,346 --> 00:18:28,666
whatever reason wanting us to go swimming Yes.

244
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I took a lot of swimming in the week. I was in your mom's room. Right.

245
00:18:33,906 --> 00:18:36,586
Changing. Right. Into my bathing suit.

246
00:18:37,186 --> 00:18:43,206
And do you think that teenage Moshe took that as an excuse to leave the room and give me privacy?

247
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Or do you think that teenage Moshe took that as an excuse to stand there and watch me change?

248
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If you know me well enough at this point, I think you know the answer.

249
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But it was very much as I just said a case of Iwana Songa Eden.

250
00:19:01,409 --> 00:19:06,989
And if she doesn't want me to, then I won't. I mean, the way it went was kind

251
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of very cute and sweet again because of who I am and because of who he is.

252
00:19:11,549 --> 00:19:14,969
And because we were close, I sort of just like covered myself up,

253
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:17,369
turned around and gave him a slap. Like, get out of here, dummy.

254
00:19:18,169 --> 00:19:22,289
But again, that's one of those things that has to be explained that if you don't

255
00:19:22,289 --> 00:19:28,089
know the person very well, or even if you do, it can go very badly when you do something.

256
00:19:28,729 --> 00:19:36,489
Unfortunately, there's lots of stories and posts on social media and accounts

257
00:19:36,489 --> 00:19:42,909
from parents of autistic children, particularly, unfortunately, autistic boys.

258
00:19:43,089 --> 00:19:45,969
Right. If I had made a big deal out of it, it could have been a whole thing.

259
00:19:46,309 --> 00:19:53,949
Because when you start developing feelings and attractions, that's the time

260
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to really try to understand the appropriateness of actions.

261
00:19:58,829 --> 00:20:05,589
Because it's not, unfortunately, very uncommon for autistic boys to be getting

262
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in trouble for looking at girls or peeking into the girl's locker room because

263
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they just kind of wanted to see.

264
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Or staring at a girl for too long because of something.

265
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And I have a personal story to share. And again, it doesn't cast me in the most positive light.

266
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But you know honest truth so when I was I want to say I want to say I was in grade four or five I.

267
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A new girl transferred into the school that I was going to, and I had never seen her before.

268
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And I wasn't particularly interested in anyone at that point.

269
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At least my brain wasn't, because I was still photoshopped on the newest video games or whatever.

270
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And she was, for lack of a better word, pre-developed in certain areas.

271
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And I would just kind of sit there and stare at her sometimes.

272
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And it wasn't because I was attracted to her, I don't think.

273
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And it wasn't necessarily because I was trying to give her any signals.

274
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It was mostly just me trying to figure out why I wanted to look at her.

275
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And eventually she was just like, do you mind? I was like, sorry.

276
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And it was one of those things where I was really uncomfortable with myself.

277
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Because I didn't actually understand what was going on and why it was going on.

278
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So it just kind of happened and

279
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that is not the

280
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first time that i have been accused of

281
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doing things that i really wasn't doing intentionally but mostly

282
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,960
just trying to understand why there was an

283
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,980
inflammation to do them whereas i'm a different kind of

284
00:21:57,980 --> 00:22:00,920
person that way my responses are very different i

285
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,600
i can't really tell you why i am the way i

286
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,620
am but i have a lot of thresholds so stuff like that so if you had been staring

287
00:22:07,620 --> 00:22:11,620
at me i would have been like hi what why are you looking at me i would have

288
00:22:11,620 --> 00:22:16,540
been like do you mind weirdo but that's just me and i respond to things it really

289
00:22:16,540 --> 00:22:23,520
depends on the nature of a person and unfortunately i'm i'm actually quite ashamed.

290
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:31,820
Because as i got older i i thought a lot about the the very brief interaction

291
00:22:31,820 --> 00:22:38,020
that i had with this girl and I, and I questioned why I think her name might've been,

292
00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:42,580
Whitney or something, anyway, it doesn't really matter and the,

293
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:48,340
the, the crux of what, what made a difference for me was not even that she was

294
00:22:48,340 --> 00:22:54,040
there and not even that she was particularly attracted to me or not even that I was,

295
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you know, caught looking at her.

296
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It was actually that.

297
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I felt sorry for her because her reaction and subsequent feelings,

298
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because after the episode there, I recall that she started crying.

299
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And it took me a few years later before I started thinking about it.

300
00:23:18,782 --> 00:23:28,262
And I realized that she was probably someone that got looked at a lot.

301
00:23:28,262 --> 00:23:32,362
Because unfortunately when you're like 11

302
00:23:32,362 --> 00:23:35,382
or 12 and you're a girl and you're

303
00:23:35,382 --> 00:23:38,182
in a class full of boys and you

304
00:23:38,182 --> 00:23:43,442
happen to you know develop at a certain rate you're going to catch the eye of

305
00:23:43,442 --> 00:23:48,842
people and it's going to make girls especially ones who don't want that kind

306
00:23:48,842 --> 00:23:52,882
of attention very uncomfortable that's exactly what i described happening to

307
00:23:52,882 --> 00:23:55,562
me in high school except for me it It wasn't,

308
00:23:55,562 --> 00:23:59,942
you know, my chest area was my bum area, but it was the same concept.

309
00:24:00,262 --> 00:24:05,342
Maybe worse because then people sort of follow behind you and watch you walk

310
00:24:05,342 --> 00:24:06,902
and stuff. Anyway, it's pretty gross.

311
00:24:07,082 --> 00:24:11,802
I can talk more about it another time if anybody, you know, has similar experiences

312
00:24:11,802 --> 00:24:13,382
or wants to hear about it, of course.

313
00:24:14,022 --> 00:24:18,302
So this brings up to me, actually, an interaction that I had with another autistic

314
00:24:18,302 --> 00:24:21,502
who happened to be a friend of my ex-spouse.

315
00:24:21,742 --> 00:24:24,282
And he's a very nice man.

316
00:24:25,182 --> 00:24:27,942
I want to say he's definitely a man now, but then we were, I don't know,

317
00:24:28,002 --> 00:24:30,642
early adulthood, so I guess now, if you want to say.

318
00:24:32,802 --> 00:24:36,642
And very nice, very sweet, doesn't seem like the type that would ever hurt a

319
00:24:36,642 --> 00:24:41,502
fly, but absolutely socially inappropriate to the extreme.

320
00:24:42,042 --> 00:24:47,182
He was raised not even acknowledging that there was anything wrong with him.

321
00:24:47,182 --> 00:24:50,102
So he got a diagnosis maybe around the same time

322
00:24:50,102 --> 00:24:53,642
as you or you later but he's more significantly effective

323
00:24:53,642 --> 00:24:56,622
than more socially anyway and i was

324
00:24:56,622 --> 00:24:59,562
just sitting on a couch talking to him one day just talking

325
00:24:59,562 --> 00:25:02,742
about i don't even know what video games or something and all

326
00:25:02,742 --> 00:25:05,842
of a sudden he reached out and he just hopped my

327
00:25:05,842 --> 00:25:09,202
breast yeah he went over out of nowhere and

328
00:25:09,202 --> 00:25:12,282
i can tell you he meant nothing by it but for

329
00:25:12,282 --> 00:25:15,002
me i was like how do i react to this now he doesn't mean

330
00:25:15,002 --> 00:25:18,042
anything by it i don't want to hurt his feelings i don't want to make him feel rejected but

331
00:25:18,042 --> 00:25:22,762
i can't let this go of course so it would have been better for somebody to sit

332
00:25:22,762 --> 00:25:27,902
him down at some point before he was like i don't know 22 or something right

333
00:25:27,902 --> 00:25:32,502
we were that age and tell them you don't just hawk women's breasts because they're

334
00:25:32,502 --> 00:25:37,802
there right you you told me that you did that and how did it go.

335
00:25:38,661 --> 00:25:42,401
Better than you would expect. He just removed his hand and he continued talking.

336
00:25:42,741 --> 00:25:46,821
Right. Because it wasn't. It was very matter of fact. It's not like a rapey

337
00:25:46,821 --> 00:25:49,781
scenario that you would actually picture in a movie or anything.

338
00:25:50,001 --> 00:25:51,841
Right. It was literally as you described.

339
00:25:52,101 --> 00:25:55,041
Oh, that's nice. I want to touch it. Okay. Don't touch it. Oh,

340
00:25:55,101 --> 00:25:59,581
sorry. Okay. And then we moved right on. And that really goes into.

341
00:26:00,101 --> 00:26:03,621
But again, if I were a different girl, that could have gone very badly.

342
00:26:03,621 --> 00:26:07,361
It could because of course especially women

343
00:26:07,361 --> 00:26:10,201
are or i mean they have to be on guard for that

344
00:26:10,201 --> 00:26:14,101
but when it comes to neurodivergence and neurodiversity it's

345
00:26:14,101 --> 00:26:18,101
a real challenge and i mean okay i just want to say for the record that i'm

346
00:26:18,101 --> 00:26:21,881
not stating the neurodivergence or more like they did to do in a program with

347
00:26:21,881 --> 00:26:30,101
touching activities but it's all about boundaries and social cues and not necessarily

348
00:26:30,101 --> 00:26:31,681
reacting to the way you feel.

349
00:26:32,261 --> 00:26:40,521
Because what we really try to do, or what most people try to do now,

350
00:26:40,741 --> 00:26:45,701
certainly not then, was when you're discussing the idea of nerve divergence

351
00:26:45,701 --> 00:26:51,141
and relationships is appropriate versus inappropriate actions,

352
00:26:51,241 --> 00:26:54,541
and appropriate versus inappropriate appropriate feelings.

353
00:26:55,161 --> 00:26:59,441
When you want to talk about actions, because if you are a boy or girl,

354
00:26:59,521 --> 00:27:04,421
I guess, and you see someone that you're interested in, and first of all,

355
00:27:04,421 --> 00:27:09,541
you're at the level of understanding that you know that you're interested in this person,

356
00:27:09,761 --> 00:27:12,381
the next question is, what should I do about it?

357
00:27:12,561 --> 00:27:15,361
And there's a bunch of different things you can do.

358
00:27:15,421 --> 00:27:19,821
And this is why, if you're very lucky, you have family members that are very

359
00:27:19,821 --> 00:27:22,981
supportive They've been aware, first of all, of your adversity.

360
00:27:23,421 --> 00:27:28,121
And you can talk about things like appropriate and inappropriate touch.

361
00:27:28,241 --> 00:27:30,121
Absolutely. Appropriate and inappropriate feelings.

362
00:27:31,141 --> 00:27:35,281
And also the idea of respecting yourself.

363
00:27:35,801 --> 00:27:40,041
And that's very important, too, because if you are, and again,

364
00:27:40,101 --> 00:27:40,881
we're skipping ahead a bit,

365
00:27:41,021 --> 00:27:46,001
but if you are a neurodivergent who is trying to pursue a relationship with a neurotypical,

366
00:27:46,001 --> 00:27:48,701
especially if they don't know or even if

367
00:27:48,701 --> 00:27:51,981
you don't know that you're no divergent discussing what sorts

368
00:27:51,981 --> 00:27:57,921
of things are good and what sorts of things are not quite as good in a relationship

369
00:27:57,921 --> 00:28:01,961
right so one of the things on my list is sensory issues with expected romantic

370
00:28:01,961 --> 00:28:05,241
activities so again a neurotypical will

371
00:28:05,241 --> 00:28:09,581
expect a certain level of physical intimacy i want you to hold my hand,

372
00:28:10,301 --> 00:28:14,001
They'll expect hand-holding, they'll expect kissing, they'll expect hand-holding,

373
00:28:14,001 --> 00:28:18,201
they'll expect for you to touch them in private areas, they'll expect for to

374
00:28:18,201 --> 00:28:19,641
touch you in private areas.

375
00:28:19,821 --> 00:28:24,141
And sometimes, you know, things like body fluids happen from that,

376
00:28:24,161 --> 00:28:25,361
and that can be uncomfortable.

377
00:28:26,141 --> 00:28:29,781
Or, you know, whatever that feeling, whatever. Yeah.

378
00:28:30,487 --> 00:28:34,287
And especially when you're sort of an emoji, like teen autistic,

379
00:28:34,527 --> 00:28:36,687
you might not be prepared for those things.

380
00:28:37,107 --> 00:28:41,367
So that's another thing that could absolutely help to talk to them.

381
00:28:41,367 --> 00:28:48,127
You know that you're dating, I don't know, Stacy, let's call this imaginary girl, a few times.

382
00:28:48,507 --> 00:28:53,707
And she's kissed you, so she might want to touch your pet area.

383
00:28:53,887 --> 00:28:54,907
How would you feel about that?

384
00:28:55,247 --> 00:28:59,947
I mean, it's definitely a conversation. Generally, you would start the conversation

385
00:28:59,947 --> 00:29:03,587
by asking if they want like the whole hands. Right.

386
00:29:03,727 --> 00:29:09,827
But I mean, it's a working up, but absolutely like sex is, is a very important

387
00:29:09,827 --> 00:29:15,047
thing to discuss for the simple reason that if you're an error divergent and

388
00:29:15,047 --> 00:29:17,767
you are with someone who expects,

389
00:29:18,167 --> 00:29:22,407
like you said, after a certain point in their relationship to be more intimate,

390
00:29:22,547 --> 00:29:28,187
that number one, and you have to be aware of what you are willing to do.

391
00:29:28,447 --> 00:29:32,627
And you have to be able to verbalize that to someone else. I don't like it when

392
00:29:32,627 --> 00:29:37,767
you touch me like that because it makes me feel, so could we please do something else?

393
00:29:38,047 --> 00:29:43,487
And that goes, as you said, all the way from hand-holding to the most intimate of activities.

394
00:29:44,047 --> 00:29:48,627
And this is why relationships between our divergence and our typicals can be

395
00:29:48,627 --> 00:29:53,687
a bit complicated because we are trained to associate certain activities with relationships.

396
00:29:53,687 --> 00:29:58,407
And if you're a neurodivergent who happens to, you know, not be comfortable

397
00:29:58,407 --> 00:30:03,267
with touching of any kind, then telling your girlfriend or your boyfriend,

398
00:30:03,627 --> 00:30:07,207
I like you a lot, but I don't feel comfortable holding your hand.

399
00:30:07,767 --> 00:30:11,307
It's a bit of a, it's a bit of a dysphoria. It's a bit of a dysfrequency,

400
00:30:11,587 --> 00:30:13,847
but I thought that that's what we're supposed to do.

401
00:30:14,047 --> 00:30:18,907
So as adults, believe it or not, a conversation that Moshe and I had and something

402
00:30:18,907 --> 00:30:23,287
we had to work on was that he initially didn't actually like kissing that much. Correct.

403
00:30:23,687 --> 00:30:29,387
He said, I don't kiss much. And I said, well, you've had other relationships.

404
00:30:29,627 --> 00:30:32,827
How did you know that you were romantic with them?

405
00:30:33,557 --> 00:30:38,377
And that was very confusing to me. A lot of, and this is the problem that I was discussing.

406
00:30:38,577 --> 00:30:42,477
A lot of the, autistics are very good mimics.

407
00:30:42,917 --> 00:30:46,097
And we're decent at mirroring antinomy.

408
00:30:47,237 --> 00:30:53,397
So this is good and bad because it allows us to function based on what other people are doing.

409
00:30:53,637 --> 00:30:57,057
This is how I should act in this situation because this person is acting the

410
00:30:57,057 --> 00:30:58,037
same way in this situation.

411
00:30:58,037 --> 00:31:05,277
But it becomes negative when you have to rear someone who is either engaging

412
00:31:05,277 --> 00:31:09,037
in or wants to engage in something that they're not comfortable with.

413
00:31:09,857 --> 00:31:17,217
My girlfriend is trying to kiss me. So how do I reconcile my desire to not kiss

414
00:31:17,217 --> 00:31:21,857
anyone because it makes me feel uncomfortable with the fact that this is apparently

415
00:31:21,857 --> 00:31:23,137
the way I'm supposed to act?

416
00:31:23,137 --> 00:31:28,077
And did act many times with me previously to that conversation.

417
00:31:28,337 --> 00:31:32,897
So that was very confusing for me, probably very uncomfortable for you.

418
00:31:33,117 --> 00:31:36,177
It was just very weird all the way around.

419
00:31:36,537 --> 00:31:40,197
It was. And if somebody had taught you that it was okay to have boundaries,

420
00:31:40,377 --> 00:31:42,137
it probably would never have been an issue.

421
00:31:42,557 --> 00:31:50,897
And this kind of gets into the other topic about what you expect that,

422
00:31:50,897 --> 00:31:55,037
you know, establish a script that works for you.

423
00:31:55,177 --> 00:32:02,637
It's kind of scary because it leads itself to the idea that just a person could

424
00:32:02,637 --> 00:32:06,957
actually be intimate with somebody by accident.

425
00:32:07,517 --> 00:32:11,737
Well, as I mentioned before to this episode and other episodes,

426
00:32:11,997 --> 00:32:16,757
just because someone has autism, much like any other, you know,

427
00:32:16,777 --> 00:32:20,357
disability or condition or whatever you want to call it,

428
00:32:20,617 --> 00:32:23,897
disorder the the the emotional and

429
00:32:23,897 --> 00:32:27,217
developmental milestones may not be being hit but

430
00:32:27,217 --> 00:32:30,017
the physical things are still there the body

431
00:32:30,017 --> 00:32:33,097
still wants to develop the body still wants to procreate

432
00:32:33,097 --> 00:32:35,957
and if you are

433
00:32:35,957 --> 00:32:42,857
a boy or a man and you are with a girl or a woman provided that that's where

434
00:32:42,857 --> 00:32:49,717
your attraction lies then you might accidentally or or just by virtue of proximity

435
00:32:49,717 --> 00:32:53,337
end up in an intimate relationship just because it seems the most logical thing.

436
00:32:54,065 --> 00:32:59,185
And that's not necessarily a great thing because I've encountered many situations

437
00:32:59,185 --> 00:33:04,565
in my own life where I engaged in activities that I was absolutely uncomfortable

438
00:33:04,565 --> 00:33:11,725
with just because I was asked to do them and it seemed like that was what you're supposed to do. Yeah.

439
00:33:12,045 --> 00:33:15,785
So that's where I ended that. Because again, you're a very different type of person.

440
00:33:15,885 --> 00:33:18,485
When he said that, I said, whoa, we got to talk about that. Like,

441
00:33:18,485 --> 00:33:22,605
kissing is very important to me, but we have to get to a level here.

442
00:33:22,725 --> 00:33:24,785
We have to figure this out.

443
00:33:25,465 --> 00:33:28,865
I'm not just going to have, you know, and he did the thing that,

444
00:33:28,865 --> 00:33:31,485
you know, when we get something that he always did, which was like,

445
00:33:31,525 --> 00:33:33,605
well, I'll just suck it up and do it. It doesn't matter.

446
00:33:33,685 --> 00:33:36,665
I don't like it that much. And I was like, no, no, we're going to work on this.

447
00:33:36,885 --> 00:33:41,425
And we did. And I think when we caught COVID and we couldn't kiss each other

448
00:33:41,425 --> 00:33:44,725
for a little while, he sort of realized that he missed it. And then that helped.

449
00:33:46,185 --> 00:33:52,125
Because, unfortunately, when you go from mirroring or mimicking or writing a

450
00:33:52,125 --> 00:34:00,505
script to how you actually feel, it can lead to accusations of dishonesty.

451
00:34:00,505 --> 00:34:03,725
Because when you are an

452
00:34:03,725 --> 00:34:06,685
autistic who is masking and masks can be

453
00:34:06,685 --> 00:34:12,485
fully interactive like they can involve actual physical things you can mask

454
00:34:12,485 --> 00:34:16,645
while kissing you can mask while holding hands we can mask while having sex

455
00:34:16,645 --> 00:34:24,065
you can mask in the most awkward and intimate of circumstances and the The mast occasionally slips.

456
00:34:24,685 --> 00:34:31,005
And it was very common for me, not so common anymore, to be engaging in some

457
00:34:31,005 --> 00:34:33,645
sort of activity and just be like, I don't want to do this anymore.

458
00:34:34,045 --> 00:34:37,165
And then you have to sort of answer questions. Well, you were fine with it for

459
00:34:37,165 --> 00:34:39,625
the last two weeks. Why don't you want to do this thing?

460
00:34:39,985 --> 00:34:42,825
Well, I was never comfortable with it. And then, of course, it's a conversation.

461
00:34:43,525 --> 00:34:46,425
So why did you do it in the first place? Because I thought I was supposed to

462
00:34:46,425 --> 00:34:47,365
and I didn't want to make you nervous.

463
00:34:47,465 --> 00:34:51,345
It's the other people's person, the other field. about it makes them feel like

464
00:34:51,345 --> 00:34:56,465
they've victimized you and the the the somewhat uncomfortable is.

465
00:34:57,180 --> 00:35:03,500
Logical conclusion of that, and I don't mind sharing it for the purposes of

466
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:09,060
highlighting my point, is several times in my own life,

467
00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:13,740
particularly when I was a teenager and a young adult, I was a victim of sexual

468
00:35:13,740 --> 00:35:19,240
violence being done to me because I didn't know how to say no,

469
00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:21,220
and I didn't know that I was allowed to say no,

470
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,700
and I didn't know that I was supposed to say no.

471
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:27,400
Because if you are I'm glad

472
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,660
we displayed this episode the kind of person who

473
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:34,980
is the kind of person who is

474
00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:39,860
taught to behave a certain way and it becomes ingrained in your consciousness

475
00:35:39,860 --> 00:35:47,700
as appropriate conduct because that all has to be expected then you end up in

476
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:53,160
a position where someone wants to do something and you say okay and then

477
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:56,440
you don't enjoy what you're doing.

478
00:35:56,620 --> 00:36:03,500
And afterwards, it leaves some very real scars on your emotional state that

479
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:08,020
can definitely color future intimacies.

480
00:36:08,420 --> 00:36:10,720
Sonny, I'm really sorry that that happened to you.

481
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,380
Yeah, it did. And I have some even worse stories to tell about things like that.

482
00:36:15,540 --> 00:36:19,600
But I did promise last episode that this would be a much lighter thing.

483
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:22,740
So we can get into that at a later time.

484
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,180
But suffice it to say, the only reason I even brought it up at all was because

485
00:36:27,180 --> 00:36:30,640
when we're talking about appropriate things,

486
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:37,160
in the article that Leah sent to me about things that you want to talk to your

487
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,800
autistic teenager about, one of the things that it says is the other person

488
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,840
asks you to do things that you feel safe and comfortable with. Absolutely.

489
00:36:46,350 --> 00:36:51,610
Autistic people are oftentimes very suggestible. Not all, of course, but oftentimes.

490
00:36:52,070 --> 00:36:57,050
And if you're with a partner or a potential partner or a friend who asks you

491
00:36:57,050 --> 00:37:01,290
to do something that you're not comfortable with, you are allowed to say no.

492
00:37:01,530 --> 00:37:06,570
Help your child or important autistic person to define their eye boundaries

493
00:37:06,570 --> 00:37:09,310
and to say that it's okay to keep them.

494
00:37:09,310 --> 00:37:15,050
Because, again, it was a very awkward situation for me to literally have to

495
00:37:15,050 --> 00:37:19,670
do that as an adult with Moshe and say, no, I actually care about you.

496
00:37:19,730 --> 00:37:24,230
Like, let's talk about what's actually going on with you here and what your boundaries are.

497
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:28,670
Exactly. Because I was an adult woman, so my boundaries were way out there.

498
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:34,590
Expectations were set for me because of a lack of understanding about the fact that I was autistic.

499
00:37:34,590 --> 00:37:41,430
And also a lack of respect for the people that were associated with me that I was used,

500
00:37:41,590 --> 00:37:47,090
not just in the intimate sense, but as a friend, because I was very agreeable

501
00:37:47,090 --> 00:37:51,010
most of the time and I was very funny and I was very charming.

502
00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:56,770
And the negative side to that is this guy seems very safe.

503
00:37:57,310 --> 00:38:00,430
I'm going to do whatever I want. I'm going to ask him for things.

504
00:38:00,670 --> 00:38:06,890
And he's going to say yes because he likes me and wants to make me happy. So he sees very soon.

505
00:38:07,150 --> 00:38:11,510
So again, just summarizing, because we're spending the whole episode on this,

506
00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:17,650
how your autistic individual was important to you to know what their boundaries

507
00:38:17,650 --> 00:38:20,650
are and know that they can keep them, that they can say no.

508
00:38:21,050 --> 00:38:24,370
And if the person doesn't like them after they say no, they won't voice them

509
00:38:24,370 --> 00:38:27,350
anyway. way, and they weren't a good potential. Exactly.

510
00:38:28,130 --> 00:38:32,690
We're already sort of talking about sexuality here, so another thing you may

511
00:38:32,690 --> 00:38:34,670
want to discuss is your...

512
00:38:35,602 --> 00:38:38,982
Child i guess or a person's sexuality not only

513
00:38:38,982 --> 00:38:41,642
do you want to talk about their sexuality but you want

514
00:38:41,642 --> 00:38:44,882
to be accepting of whatever comes because there

515
00:38:44,882 --> 00:38:47,922
tends to be i mean in human beings in general a lot

516
00:38:47,922 --> 00:38:51,042
of sexual fluidity and we can i guess

517
00:38:51,042 --> 00:38:54,102
talk about that though we're not experts at there's a

518
00:38:54,102 --> 00:38:57,862
lot of everyone into that right but neurodivergence

519
00:38:57,862 --> 00:39:00,982
also have a lot of sexual fluidity it tends

520
00:39:00,982 --> 00:39:03,722
to sort of go together not always of course not

521
00:39:03,722 --> 00:39:08,042
everyone it can actually be seen as something of a good thing because on

522
00:39:08,042 --> 00:39:10,862
many ways or in many ways autistic's lack

523
00:39:10,862 --> 00:39:14,002
of understanding of social boundaries and social ways and

524
00:39:14,002 --> 00:39:17,362
social cues can can appear to often

525
00:39:17,362 --> 00:39:20,122
make them not just appear but actually to make

526
00:39:20,122 --> 00:39:26,922
them feel very awkward and out of place and uncomfortable but if they can accept

527
00:39:26,922 --> 00:39:33,982
in in fact welcome their divergency and their diversity then they can realize

528
00:39:33,982 --> 00:39:39,462
that they're not necessarily bound by the labels that society often puts on people.

529
00:39:39,542 --> 00:39:47,322
Because if you are raised with the concept that there are people who are heterosexual

530
00:39:47,322 --> 00:39:54,302
and bisexual and homosexual, then you know where you fit, or potentially know where you fit.

531
00:39:54,482 --> 00:39:59,442
And especially as you develop more in your own sense of self and whatever.

532
00:39:59,542 --> 00:40:02,562
You can go, oh, okay, well, I guess I'm and this and that and whatever.

533
00:40:03,437 --> 00:40:08,117
Neurodivergents have a much higher instance of kind of, as Blaise said,

534
00:40:08,177 --> 00:40:12,677
fluidity, where rather than trying to fit themselves into a box, they're just like,

535
00:40:12,817 --> 00:40:17,577
I'm attracted to this member of the same sex, but I'm also attracted to this

536
00:40:17,577 --> 00:40:20,537
member of the opposite sex, and I'm attracted to this person,

537
00:40:20,597 --> 00:40:21,597
that person, and this person.

538
00:40:21,797 --> 00:40:28,797
And who they are matters a lot less to them if they don't necessarily feel that

539
00:40:28,797 --> 00:40:33,577
they're bound by the idea that they have to fit in a particular category.

540
00:40:34,077 --> 00:40:38,197
Right. So discussing what sexuality is, what attraction is,

541
00:40:38,357 --> 00:40:44,837
and that it's okay regardless of how they attempt to express that is especially

542
00:40:44,837 --> 00:40:50,137
important for the development of teenagers because a lot of people are in an

543
00:40:50,137 --> 00:40:51,637
experimental phase at that time.

544
00:40:51,757 --> 00:40:56,457
A lot of people are just trying things And they will figure out sort of where

545
00:40:56,457 --> 00:40:58,377
they fit later on in life.

546
00:40:58,537 --> 00:41:02,097
But you can't shame somebody into being something that they're not.

547
00:41:02,197 --> 00:41:06,917
So you absolutely need to have an open and honest conversation about that,

548
00:41:06,977 --> 00:41:09,157
regardless of how you might personally feel about it.

549
00:41:09,377 --> 00:41:15,057
As Orthodox Jews, the idea of sexual orientation is not normally a topic that

550
00:41:15,057 --> 00:41:17,077
we discuss too, too much.

551
00:41:17,237 --> 00:41:21,557
It's absolutely one in our house. But the reality of the situation is,

552
00:41:21,817 --> 00:41:27,677
or what I tell people when they ask about that discrepancy,

553
00:41:27,797 --> 00:41:34,817
is my faith in God has nothing to do with my attraction or the attraction of

554
00:41:34,817 --> 00:41:37,157
any of the people that I'm close to.

555
00:41:37,157 --> 00:41:49,257
And I vehemently oppose the idea that somebody can be gay or non-hetero and

556
00:41:49,257 --> 00:41:51,617
not be a very religious person.

557
00:41:51,757 --> 00:41:58,897
You absolutely can, because who you choose to be with is...

558
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:06,180
Is irrelevant to your faith. And I am going to always stand up for that.

559
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:15,020
I do have children that are of that persuasion, and love and acceptance was

560
00:42:15,020 --> 00:42:17,680
present in all instances,

561
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:24,420
and it doesn't matter or affect how I pray or what I believe in or who I am as a person.

562
00:42:24,580 --> 00:42:30,960
And if it did, I would be a huge hitter. Right, because who are we as people, Moshe?

563
00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:35,980
Well, now we're attracted only to each other because we're in an organized relationship.

564
00:42:36,420 --> 00:42:41,440
Right. But we're both fluent, theoretically speaking.

565
00:42:41,740 --> 00:42:44,720
Yes. Not that we have a chance to really test that.

566
00:42:45,180 --> 00:42:49,180
Not that we would want to. And if we have at least two children,

567
00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:55,220
we're at least looking like it's going to go that way for them.

568
00:42:55,220 --> 00:43:00,220
And I've read some horrendous stories of various religious communities,

569
00:43:00,460 --> 00:43:03,640
whether they're Jewish or Christian or Muslim or whatever, that their children

570
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,140
were rejected because their children were gay.

571
00:43:08,140 --> 00:43:17,460
And I would not adhere to a faith that opted to make me decide between who I

572
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:21,040
am and who I love as a person.

573
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:27,580
And my children, all of them, are exceptionally valuable to me and means that I support.

574
00:43:27,580 --> 00:43:30,620
Support and if if i'm going

575
00:43:30,620 --> 00:43:34,560
to tell one of my children that being jewish means

576
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,620
that they can't love who they want to love then i

577
00:43:37,620 --> 00:43:40,640
would fully expect them to to not

578
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:46,860
believe that being jewish was beneficial and that's not at all right so that's

579
00:43:46,860 --> 00:43:50,840
how it is in our household and we highly suggest that you know the whole sexual

580
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,960
fluidity thing is dealt with with openness yes so if your child comes to you

581
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,980
and expresses that they have romantic feelings for a member of the same sex,

582
00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:05,920
horror is not the correct response yeah there's there's certain extremes that you can go.

583
00:44:06,580 --> 00:44:11,680
I subscribe to the belief that you support your child on their journey and you

584
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,040
don't try to stick a label on their forehand and then force them to stick to

585
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,660
it and again that's not to say that sexual orientation is a choice that's on

586
00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:22,880
a road i'm going down but what i will say is that And oftentimes,

587
00:44:23,140 --> 00:44:24,400
as certain feelings develop,

588
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:32,580
a child may waver between a bunch of different places, and you just kind of

589
00:44:32,580 --> 00:44:34,480
have to come along for the ride.

590
00:44:34,860 --> 00:44:38,820
And that doesn't mean that you're denying your child's feelings,

591
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:44,600
and it doesn't mean that you're just kind of throwing them in a pride parade either.

592
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:48,120
You have to follow where your child wants to go in their journey.

593
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,660
And our own life experience has helped us greatly with that.

594
00:44:52,347 --> 00:44:58,147
So, that might be a good time, because especially when your romantic pool is

595
00:44:58,147 --> 00:45:04,367
doubled, right, it might be difficult to know when somebody is interested in you.

596
00:45:04,367 --> 00:45:09,987
And a certain thing that some autistics might not know because they tend to

597
00:45:09,987 --> 00:45:11,487
be very out there, right?

598
00:45:11,527 --> 00:45:16,947
They tend to be very truthful and not be as prone to conceal things as others

599
00:45:16,947 --> 00:45:22,607
is they may not know that other people often attempt to conceal their romantic feelings.

600
00:45:22,967 --> 00:45:25,907
It's like this little hard to get game that people

601
00:45:25,907 --> 00:45:28,767
play or they may be embarrassed of the fact that they're

602
00:45:28,767 --> 00:45:31,947
attracted to someone and that they actually do conceal the

603
00:45:31,947 --> 00:45:34,927
fact sometimes times that they might be attracted to the problem

604
00:45:34,927 --> 00:45:38,527
and it kind of goes back to the beginning of of our scripting today

605
00:45:38,527 --> 00:45:45,987
when when you are guided by overt signs and over-the-top gestures and and not

606
00:45:45,987 --> 00:45:53,807
very comfortable or familiar with subtle cues then it's very common to miss

607
00:45:53,807 --> 00:45:57,407
things that would often didn't be noticed.

608
00:45:57,827 --> 00:46:02,947
It says in this article that they said that visual supports can help.

609
00:46:03,247 --> 00:46:08,127
That makes me a bit uncomfortable, only because I can't imagine sitting down

610
00:46:08,127 --> 00:46:10,767
with a teenager and going, this person is looking a certain way.

611
00:46:10,847 --> 00:46:13,847
What do you think they're looking at? I think what they're discussing here is

612
00:46:13,847 --> 00:46:15,167
actually social stories.

613
00:46:16,087 --> 00:46:20,647
The videos that we show to Avram about don't touch people without their permission,

614
00:46:20,827 --> 00:46:24,307
but they're social stories that sort of grow with a person.

615
00:46:24,567 --> 00:46:27,727
So this is Sally. sally's looking at bill what do

616
00:46:27,727 --> 00:46:30,567
you think sally's thinking when she's looking at bill stuff like that

617
00:46:30,567 --> 00:46:33,987
they're talking about social stories as visual aids they're not

618
00:46:33,987 --> 00:46:40,447
talking about like porn no no no no definitely you need to spend very small

619
00:46:40,447 --> 00:46:48,067
so you're basically looking for some cues if you're if you're a teenager who's

620
00:46:48,067 --> 00:46:51,567
neurodivergent that maybe you're missing You know,

621
00:46:51,667 --> 00:46:54,787
why is that person always looking at me and smiling?

622
00:46:54,967 --> 00:46:59,687
Why does that person always approach me after class and want to walk with me?

623
00:47:00,027 --> 00:47:03,767
She keeps trying to, like, accidentally touching me.

624
00:47:03,867 --> 00:47:09,527
Or, you know, that guy keeps smiling and winking at me. What's wrong with him?

625
00:47:09,567 --> 00:47:10,667
Why does he keep doing that?

626
00:47:10,947 --> 00:47:15,787
Or he seems to always ask me what I'm doing after school. I don't know why he's

627
00:47:15,787 --> 00:47:17,327
so interested in what I'm doing.

628
00:47:17,467 --> 00:47:22,207
Yes. Like, things like that. And it absolutely be a stereotypical that,

629
00:47:22,347 --> 00:47:25,027
and again, this is not meant to highlight anything,

630
00:47:25,227 --> 00:47:29,447
but like I told Leah, when I, when Facebook first came out and everyone was

631
00:47:29,447 --> 00:47:33,127
kind of looking for everyone and so they realized that they didn't necessarily

632
00:47:33,127 --> 00:47:35,427
want to be in touch with everyone that they ever knew ever.

633
00:47:36,233 --> 00:47:42,133
I had a lot of messages from, you know, girls in elementary school and the early

634
00:47:42,133 --> 00:47:44,973
parts of high school that were like, oh, it's so cool to see you on Facebook.

635
00:47:45,133 --> 00:47:46,673
You know, I had such a huge crush on you.

636
00:47:47,193 --> 00:47:50,853
And I would be like, I don't actually even remember you.

637
00:47:51,693 --> 00:47:55,473
But that's the kind of person that I was then, where I would be so obtuse and

638
00:47:55,473 --> 00:47:59,973
so dense that I didn't even pay attention to where I was walking,

639
00:48:00,093 --> 00:48:01,473
though, on how people were reacting.

640
00:48:01,753 --> 00:48:05,733
But you were so adorable, so I don't blame any of them. I mean,

641
00:48:05,753 --> 00:48:06,633
I still have it portable.

642
00:48:08,673 --> 00:48:13,713
So that actually segues nicely into my next point, which is if they're nice

643
00:48:13,713 --> 00:48:15,353
to you, if they smile at you,

644
00:48:15,593 --> 00:48:18,993
if they want to eat lunch with you, if they want to walk with you,

645
00:48:19,033 --> 00:48:23,153
if they want to talk to you about stuff, that also conversely doesn't always

646
00:48:23,153 --> 00:48:24,993
indicate romantic interest.

647
00:48:25,353 --> 00:48:28,973
And that's an important thing to also drive on.

648
00:48:29,233 --> 00:48:33,453
Yeah, appropriate condoms. So if somebody is smiling at you,

649
00:48:33,573 --> 00:48:36,073
maybe they like you as a friend.

650
00:48:36,193 --> 00:48:41,913
If somebody is showing you signs that you might have misinterpreted,

651
00:48:41,993 --> 00:48:47,693
it's better to err on the side of caution and not touch them inappropriately

652
00:48:47,693 --> 00:48:49,833
if you are reading the signals wrong.

653
00:48:50,573 --> 00:48:53,713
Appropriate touch, appropriate conduct, appropriate actions,

654
00:48:53,833 --> 00:48:55,853
appropriateness in general.

655
00:48:55,853 --> 00:48:58,813
And oftentimes an autistic

656
00:48:58,813 --> 00:49:02,273
person will say i think that girl was flirting with me she was smiling at me

657
00:49:02,273 --> 00:49:07,273
but and and the the sad truth is she smiles at everyone because she works in

658
00:49:07,273 --> 00:49:10,753
a coffee shop and that's customer service it's not necessarily that she was

659
00:49:10,753 --> 00:49:15,373
trying to ask what you can try sometimes they are you can try never hurts to

660
00:49:15,373 --> 00:49:17,233
or it shouldn't hurt to say hey you want to,

661
00:49:17,873 --> 00:49:22,133
go out for coffee sometime and they're like no not i don't think when you're

662
00:49:22,133 --> 00:49:25,793
in full mask so like Like when you're well-rested and you've prayed and you've

663
00:49:25,793 --> 00:49:27,313
had your coffee and all your medication,

664
00:49:27,633 --> 00:49:34,093
I've seen you dismantle service girls like in a second because you are one charming dude.

665
00:49:34,433 --> 00:49:37,453
I really am. And it's a skill that I have.

666
00:49:37,833 --> 00:49:40,613
It's unfortunately a curse that I have to live with.

667
00:49:41,633 --> 00:49:47,153
They don't know the real you like I do. Yeah. If they did, they would run for their head.

668
00:49:47,353 --> 00:49:53,813
No, they wouldn't. But yeah, it's interesting to watch an accomplished autistic like Moshe and Fulness.

669
00:49:55,573 --> 00:50:01,833
So anyway. So, masking. Let's talk about explaining what no means.

670
00:50:02,213 --> 00:50:10,073
Yes. Like I said, it's very challenging to understand the concept of rejection.

671
00:50:10,733 --> 00:50:15,133
Whether rejection is rejection and what rejection sounds like.

672
00:50:15,133 --> 00:50:23,333
An autistic person often struggles with the concept of not getting their way.

673
00:50:23,493 --> 00:50:30,153
And again, that's a bit of a touchy subject and really has more to do with applying

674
00:50:30,153 --> 00:50:34,713
it to other aspects of everyday life. Yeah.

675
00:50:35,261 --> 00:50:40,921
And in general, if you want a particular toy, or you want a certain thing to

676
00:50:40,921 --> 00:50:48,401
eat, or you want something that you like, then you're going to want it,

677
00:50:48,421 --> 00:50:50,061
and that's just how it is.

678
00:50:50,061 --> 00:50:54,921
But when we're talking about like a person who is an independent entity,

679
00:50:55,181 --> 00:51:01,861
if they say no to you, especially if they say no to a romantic interest.

680
00:51:03,041 --> 00:51:09,701
Then you have to be able to say okay and not pursue it.

681
00:51:10,001 --> 00:51:13,201
But conversely, that you're also allowed to say no. Absolutely.

682
00:51:13,361 --> 00:51:17,201
If you're trying to pursue someone and they say no to you, you need to be able

683
00:51:17,201 --> 00:51:19,621
to understand that and say, come on, please. Right.

684
00:51:20,061 --> 00:51:24,261
But also you, if they say, I would like to, would you like to hold my hand?

685
00:51:24,741 --> 00:51:28,281
You really like this person. You really want to be in a relationship with them,

686
00:51:28,281 --> 00:51:30,321
but you're just not comfortable with it.

687
00:51:30,401 --> 00:51:35,541
You have the right to say, I'm sorry, I really like you, but I'm not comfortable with holding hands.

688
00:51:35,841 --> 00:51:41,281
And if that is a problem, then it needs to be discussed.

689
00:51:42,081 --> 00:51:45,241
Yeah, absolutely. When you enter a relationship with a narrative version,

690
00:51:45,361 --> 00:51:47,781
this is just kind of one of those conversations that come up.

691
00:51:47,781 --> 00:51:50,381
And how you respond to them, and they show some that you care.

692
00:51:50,601 --> 00:51:54,901
The problem is that teens often don't have the level of maturity that's required for something.

693
00:51:55,121 --> 00:51:58,881
He will be like, oh, he didn't hold my hand, so I guess we're not dating anymore.

694
00:51:59,081 --> 00:52:06,081
And that's a hard thing. It really is. I can see why people are socialized into just doing whatever.

695
00:52:06,521 --> 00:52:09,681
Because we teach people on how they're supposed to behave in relationships.

696
00:52:10,501 --> 00:52:15,041
And there's countless stories all over social media and everything about how

697
00:52:15,041 --> 00:52:19,961
people who are autistic are very uncomfortable because their partner always

698
00:52:19,961 --> 00:52:24,301
wants to touch them or always wants to hold their hand in public or always wants

699
00:52:24,301 --> 00:52:25,561
to hold their hand in general.

700
00:52:26,349 --> 00:52:30,489
Or just seems to like to be really close to them, and they don't know how to

701
00:52:30,489 --> 00:52:34,009
say that it makes them uncomfortable without hurting their shoes.

702
00:52:34,509 --> 00:52:38,969
And that's something that they have to consider. So that brings me to the next

703
00:52:38,969 --> 00:52:44,149
topic, which is discussing good and bad signs when it comes to a partner.

704
00:52:44,529 --> 00:52:48,029
What would be signs that somebody may be a good partner for you,

705
00:52:48,129 --> 00:52:51,729
and what would be signs that somebody may be not a good partner for you? Right.

706
00:52:51,849 --> 00:52:56,669
Unfortunately, autistics are prone to taking people at their word.

707
00:52:56,769 --> 00:53:00,249
And the reality is, unfortunately, not everyone has the best of intentions.

708
00:53:00,609 --> 00:53:05,669
Yes. And if we take everything at face value and we don't have that sense of

709
00:53:05,669 --> 00:53:14,069
cynicism or mistrust or suspiciousness, then if a person, man or woman, sees you and likes you.

710
00:53:14,909 --> 00:53:20,929
They may often make you feel or do things that are either not things you'd be comfortable doing,

711
00:53:20,929 --> 00:53:24,429
doing it or that are actually bad and

712
00:53:24,429 --> 00:53:27,329
and that's the problem that that i ran into and

713
00:53:27,329 --> 00:53:30,389
some of the things that you know are are

714
00:53:30,389 --> 00:53:34,809
common for example in good good things you're going to look for someone that

715
00:53:34,809 --> 00:53:39,149
asks you to do things that make you feel safe and isn't conversely isn't going

716
00:53:39,149 --> 00:53:44,249
to make you do things if you don't feel comfortable to a person that is honest

717
00:53:44,249 --> 00:53:49,169
with you and doesn't try to They mislead you or tell you lies or manipulate you.

718
00:53:49,289 --> 00:53:52,129
Right. So somebody who cares about you will listen to you.

719
00:53:52,933 --> 00:53:56,253
A person that doesn't expect you to do everything.

720
00:53:56,593 --> 00:54:04,913
For example, if you are with somebody and they say, I'd like to go to the movies today.

721
00:54:05,453 --> 00:54:09,433
And you're like, you know, my social battery is a bit down today.

722
00:54:09,573 --> 00:54:12,313
Do you mind if we just stay home and watch a movie together?

723
00:54:12,833 --> 00:54:16,313
They're going to be okay with that. They're going to say, oh, you know what?

724
00:54:16,353 --> 00:54:19,953
I really want to see a movie, but I understand. And how about tonight,

725
00:54:20,113 --> 00:54:25,153
maybe just watch a movie tonight, but maybe later on some other time we can go out.

726
00:54:25,293 --> 00:54:30,273
If you're feeling okay with something that someone said to me once upon a time,

727
00:54:30,353 --> 00:54:35,333
and I keep quoting it to Spock, is you want to be with someone who is as excited

728
00:54:35,333 --> 00:54:37,433
to be around you as you are to be around them.

729
00:54:37,573 --> 00:54:42,353
Because one of my problems in relationships was I was the one who had to do everything.

730
00:54:42,553 --> 00:54:47,093
And by do everything, I mean pay for them, look after them, support them emotionally, support them.

731
00:54:47,093 --> 00:54:50,053
But when I needed that they weren't and

732
00:54:50,053 --> 00:54:53,573
what what I had to discover is that

733
00:54:53,573 --> 00:54:56,613
not only was I looking in the

734
00:54:56,613 --> 00:55:00,593
wrong places when it came to the people I associated with but also that the

735
00:55:00,593 --> 00:55:05,373
mark of a good relationship be it a friend or romantic is someone who's just

736
00:55:05,373 --> 00:55:09,813
genuinely happy to be with you exactly and it's not a relationship at all really

737
00:55:09,813 --> 00:55:13,573
if they're not there because relationships are two ways at minimum. Absolutely.

738
00:55:13,993 --> 00:55:17,493
Another red flag that I've actually taught most as an adult,

739
00:55:17,613 --> 00:55:21,573
sadly enough, to look for is if somebody asks you for money all the time. Yes.

740
00:55:22,113 --> 00:55:29,373
Many of the times that in order to be nice to people, when I did have money,

741
00:55:29,453 --> 00:55:32,273
I would pay for things for them. I would buy them gifts.

742
00:55:32,753 --> 00:55:34,653
I once worked...

743
00:55:35,433 --> 00:55:39,413
Someplace. And one of my co-workers asked me if I would mind paying him off

744
00:55:39,413 --> 00:55:43,733
for $5,000 for the current bill, to which I was happy to do it because she said

745
00:55:43,733 --> 00:55:45,633
that she would really appreciate it.

746
00:55:46,053 --> 00:55:51,053
And of course, I was happy to do it and not realizing what an imbecile I was.

747
00:55:52,053 --> 00:55:58,333
And as some of my own comeuppance, at a later time when I was financially scrapped,

748
00:55:58,453 --> 00:56:03,173
I asked them if they could possibly help me out a little bit.

749
00:56:03,233 --> 00:56:06,393
And they're like, Like, no, I don't really have anything like that. Right.

750
00:56:06,633 --> 00:56:11,453
Because that's the nature it is. And this is unfortunately why a lot of autistic

751
00:56:11,453 --> 00:56:17,933
and neurodivergent people struggle with being in relationships with both neurodivergent

752
00:56:17,933 --> 00:56:18,793
and neurodivergent people.

753
00:56:19,073 --> 00:56:25,593
Because unless they're taught certain things, they don't always have the knowledge

754
00:56:25,593 --> 00:56:28,733
to know when they're being taken advantage of. Right.

755
00:56:29,113 --> 00:56:33,453
So what are some good signs that you might want to be in a romantic relationship with someone?

756
00:56:33,713 --> 00:56:37,473
Someone who is excited to be around you. Someone who doesn't,

757
00:56:37,473 --> 00:56:39,953
you know, bully you or say things that make you feel bad.

758
00:56:40,133 --> 00:56:45,573
Someone who listens to you. You might spend, you know, the first third of every

759
00:56:45,573 --> 00:56:52,653
date with them talking about the trains or the newest comic book that came out

760
00:56:52,653 --> 00:56:54,593
or the newest Marvel thing.

761
00:56:54,593 --> 00:56:57,553
Or did you catch that latest episode of like Doctor Who or whatever?

762
00:56:57,553 --> 00:57:00,653
Hour and you can care less

763
00:57:00,653 --> 00:57:03,373
about doctor who but if you care about them they'll

764
00:57:03,373 --> 00:57:07,493
go really tell me more about that and conversely

765
00:57:07,493 --> 00:57:11,173
they'll be like okay you know what that was really interesting would

766
00:57:11,173 --> 00:57:14,253
it be okay with you if we talked about something

767
00:57:14,253 --> 00:57:16,973
else and yes sometimes that literally has to be

768
00:57:16,973 --> 00:57:20,513
scripted on our date nights and stuff absolutely so

769
00:57:20,513 --> 00:57:23,833
now masha i want to talk about the kids and now i

770
00:57:23,833 --> 00:57:26,833
want to talk about you know our family situation

771
00:57:26,833 --> 00:57:29,733
and now i want to talk about finances okay now

772
00:57:29,733 --> 00:57:34,073
we can talk about he's not into trains but i don't know politics now we can

773
00:57:34,073 --> 00:57:40,333
talk about politics yes keeping on topic listening to them i mean those are

774
00:57:40,333 --> 00:57:45,893
the examples that that this article gives give me your top five red flags yours

775
00:57:45,893 --> 00:57:48,273
your personal ones my personal ones yeah Yeah,

776
00:57:48,273 --> 00:57:51,113
it's been an enough life experience now. Unfortunately.

777
00:57:51,413 --> 00:57:59,833
I have to go back to that adage that someone is just not that exciting to be around.

778
00:58:00,433 --> 00:58:05,473
You are coming in there with everything that you've got.

779
00:58:05,693 --> 00:58:11,393
And the person's like, eye rolling, sighing, looking at their watch,

780
00:58:11,753 --> 00:58:14,553
looking at their phone, looking around.

781
00:58:15,413 --> 00:58:17,673
They just don't seem like they're paying attention.

782
00:58:19,033 --> 00:58:23,633
That's a, that's definitely a right flag for me. The other one is somebody that

783
00:58:23,633 --> 00:58:26,953
doesn't listen to what I'm saying.

784
00:58:27,573 --> 00:58:31,273
If, if someone says, can I give you a hug? And you're like, you know what?

785
00:58:31,333 --> 00:58:33,813
I would rather not know, like, oh, come on, like.

786
00:58:34,497 --> 00:58:39,137
You're being dumb or whatever. So that's two things. Not respecting your boundaries, red flag.

787
00:58:39,537 --> 00:58:46,197
And not listening to you is a red flag. Asking for money or asking for anything. Anything.

788
00:58:46,637 --> 00:58:49,557
Especially if you don't have that close of a relationship, right?

789
00:58:49,697 --> 00:58:50,577
There's different levels.

790
00:58:50,877 --> 00:58:53,957
If you haven't been to the other person's house, if you haven't had dinner with

791
00:58:53,957 --> 00:58:57,437
them, if you haven't met their parents, they shouldn't be asking you for favors like mine.

792
00:58:58,277 --> 00:59:01,197
I mean, obviously, it's going to

793
00:59:01,197 --> 00:59:04,237
be someone money who doesn't understand

794
00:59:04,237 --> 00:59:07,217
that i'm not a virgin i mean obviously

795
00:59:07,217 --> 00:59:10,237
now it's not going to be an issue but in the past

796
00:59:10,237 --> 00:59:16,437
if i expressed a particular concern and they were just like some of them do

797
00:59:16,437 --> 00:59:20,557
seem bizarre and out of left field but you have to explain that and that would

798
00:59:20,557 --> 00:59:23,877
require the person to care enough to listen instead of doing that to listen

799
00:59:23,877 --> 00:59:27,297
so listening is definitely a big one Well,

800
00:59:27,577 --> 00:59:31,317
the last thing that I have on the list here for this episode,

801
00:59:31,537 --> 00:59:39,117
because we've run out of time, again, is to explain to your teen that teen romances

802
00:59:39,117 --> 00:59:40,937
often don't last forever.

803
00:59:41,537 --> 00:59:45,737
In our case, that absolutely wouldn't have been the case, but we had no way

804
00:59:45,737 --> 00:59:47,837
of knowing that, actually, besides 2020.

805
00:59:48,417 --> 00:59:52,077
The reality is the majority of relationships that are begun before the age of

806
00:59:52,077 --> 00:59:54,137
25 are going to end. Right, exactly.

807
00:59:54,337 --> 00:59:58,757
So you discuss with them, you know, that inevitable breakup that may be coming.

808
00:59:59,197 --> 01:00:02,937
You hope that they have a nice, long and happy relationship with the person

809
01:00:02,937 --> 01:00:04,717
that they care about, but it's a possibility.

810
01:00:05,197 --> 01:00:08,897
And that they should maintain balance in their life.

811
01:00:09,197 --> 01:00:14,397
So letting go of all their friends and all their interests and never going to

812
01:00:14,397 --> 01:00:15,597
family gatherings, etc.

813
01:00:15,897 --> 01:00:22,337
Just to pour all of their resources into this one person that may not last forever is not a smart idea.

814
01:00:23,253 --> 01:00:28,113
Certain autistics, myself included, have a lot of trouble with attachment.

815
01:00:28,473 --> 01:00:32,353
Some of them don't get attached at all, and some of them get too attached.

816
01:00:32,633 --> 01:00:37,013
And when you are the kind of autistic that I am, it gets very emotionally invested

817
01:00:37,013 --> 01:00:41,673
in literally everyone, which is why I have to hold most people at a distance.

818
01:00:41,853 --> 01:00:46,073
It's not because I'm standoffish or arrogant. It's because I literally cannot

819
01:00:46,073 --> 01:00:51,973
get close to you and get bonded with you and then have you disappointed because

820
01:00:51,973 --> 01:00:53,253
it will absolutely destroy.

821
01:00:53,533 --> 01:00:59,313
And the reality is, unfortunately or fortunately dependent, if you are a teen,

822
01:00:59,513 --> 01:01:03,673
even an older teen, like 18 or 19, and you're in a relationship,

823
01:01:04,033 --> 01:01:11,113
I'm really sorry, but chances are good, in fact, almost certain that it will not last.

824
01:01:11,553 --> 01:01:14,753
It may end after a few weeks. It may end after a few months.

825
01:01:14,953 --> 01:01:19,833
It may even end after a few years, but it's not going to last. 23 years? Yes.

826
01:01:20,933 --> 01:01:26,813
So, when you have the kind of person who gets very emotionally invested in relationships,

827
01:01:27,293 --> 01:01:32,613
you have to accept that there is going to be disappointment,

828
01:01:32,893 --> 01:01:34,113
there is going to be sadness.

829
01:01:34,113 --> 01:01:36,873
This and deciding when you're

830
01:01:36,873 --> 01:01:39,833
13 or 14 that you

831
01:01:39,833 --> 01:01:42,973
have to just give up your whole life and devote

832
01:01:42,973 --> 01:01:45,993
it fully to this one person who you can't

833
01:01:45,993 --> 01:01:51,993
bear to be away from ever ever ever ever ever is not healthy nor is i mean to

834
01:01:51,993 --> 01:01:55,713
be fair it's not healthy anyway because one of the the red flags is a partner

835
01:01:55,713 --> 01:02:00,673
who asks you to give up everything to to pander to them right that's also the

836
01:02:00,673 --> 01:02:04,133
idea but but But again, that was our experience,

837
01:02:04,873 --> 01:02:07,553
but later in life and retrospective.

838
01:02:07,693 --> 01:02:09,353
And, you know, results not typical.

839
01:02:10,344 --> 01:02:15,024
No, unfortunately, they're not typical. If you are very fortunate and happen

840
01:02:15,024 --> 01:02:18,564
to meet your soulmate when you're seven years old, then Mazel Tov.

841
01:02:18,824 --> 01:02:24,744
That is wonderful for you. And I wish you all the love and happiness in your life.

842
01:02:25,244 --> 01:02:34,064
But if you're the kind of person who is emotionally invested in a new partner, be very cautious.

843
01:02:34,064 --> 01:02:39,724
And if you are the parent of an autistic teenager who is now fully obsessed

844
01:02:39,724 --> 01:02:41,964
with their new girlfriend or boyfriend,

845
01:02:42,304 --> 01:02:48,504
it's probably a good idea to discuss not giving up everything about themselves

846
01:02:48,504 --> 01:02:53,224
just to immerse themselves in a relationship that may not unfortunately last.

847
01:02:53,224 --> 01:02:55,944
Last yep and when the

848
01:02:55,944 --> 01:02:59,044
inevitable breakup does happen you can support

849
01:02:59,044 --> 01:03:01,924
your your child by encouraging them to be close to

850
01:03:01,924 --> 01:03:07,924
family and do things that they enjoy and to talk about their feelings and express

851
01:03:07,924 --> 01:03:12,764
themselves they can write a journal they can write letters they can spend a

852
01:03:12,764 --> 01:03:17,764
week in the room crying i mean it's completely normal and sending angry emails

853
01:03:17,764 --> 01:03:21,564
or texting and they're now acts more.

854
01:03:21,824 --> 01:03:23,804
Or begging them back constantly.

855
01:03:24,184 --> 01:03:28,084
Don't, don't, don't, don't do that. And don't like start bullying them or spreading

856
01:03:28,084 --> 01:03:30,344
rumors about them at school, I think, because that's been cool.

857
01:03:30,784 --> 01:03:34,884
Okay, that is all for this topic. Thank you, Leah.

858
01:03:35,704 --> 01:03:39,924
Well, that's all the time we have, I'll tell you that. We are going to have

859
01:03:39,924 --> 01:03:44,424
a third episode where we do discuss, we promised you that we're going to discuss Love on the Spectrum.

860
01:03:44,624 --> 01:03:47,864
Right. And why two autistics together isn't necessarily the best.

861
01:03:47,864 --> 01:03:51,684
But I think that it's going to be a shorter episode and maybe a puny content.

862
01:03:52,044 --> 01:03:54,624
For sure. So thank you very much for listening.

863
01:03:55,604 --> 01:03:59,824
Well, that's our show for today. One Autistic, just a little bit better.

864
01:04:00,524 --> 01:04:06,424
So something you may not know about some autistics is that we often struggle

865
01:04:06,424 --> 01:04:08,104
with ending social interactions.

866
01:04:09,064 --> 01:04:13,384
So, Leah? All right, Moshe, I'll take care of it.

867
01:04:13,744 --> 01:04:17,744
Thank you for listening to Now You Know One Autistic. See you next week.

868
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:25,625
Music.