Now You Know One Autistic! Podcast
948
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,638
Moshe: I went through a lot of complex
emotions in isolation during the COVID
949
00:46:55,694 --> 00:46:56,126
lockdown.
950
00:46:56,198 --> 00:46:58,422
Well, we didn't have a lockdown where I was
951
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living, but the, like, work moved home.
952
00:47:02,350 --> 00:47:05,582
We were, you know, we were basically made to
953
00:47:05,606 --> 00:47:07,502
stay home for at least part of the time.
954
00:47:07,606 --> 00:47:09,238
Not kept in our homes by any means.
955
00:47:09,294 --> 00:47:15,022
But when you work from home and you're
autistic, you're already isolated, and now you
956
00:47:15,046 --> 00:47:19,252
don't even have the forced social interactions
that comes from going to the office.
957
00:47:19,406 --> 00:47:24,432
No getting on the bus, no going into the
office, no talking to your coworker in the
958
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next cubicle, no interacting with your boss,
just every day rolling out of bed, rolling
959
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into your chair, and going online to do your
job with no one else around you.
960
00:47:37,312 --> 00:47:45,316
So I discovered the wonders of banana bread,
and I became very overweight, and I was very
961
00:47:45,388 --> 00:47:52,620
unhealthy, and I got dogs because I was so
stubborn.
962
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And so they talk about that.
963
00:47:55,964 --> 00:47:57,812
There's a term for it that I can't.
964
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Oppositional defiance or oppositional.
965
00:48:01,124 --> 00:48:02,820
Leah: Oppositional defiance disorder.
966
00:48:02,940 --> 00:48:04,436
Moshe: Yeah, oppositional defiance disorder.
967
00:48:04,468 --> 00:48:06,604
I was so opposed to anything that dragged me
968
00:48:06,612 --> 00:48:15,030
out of my funk that I literally had to get,
you know, two big dogs, because if I didn't
969
00:48:15,070 --> 00:48:17,030
feed them, they were bothering me.
970
00:48:17,070 --> 00:48:18,926
If I didn't take them out, they were doing
971
00:48:18,998 --> 00:48:19,766
messes in the house.
972
00:48:19,798 --> 00:48:21,374
And I said, well, I can't do that.
973
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And then I got to the point where I was out of
that a lot and I was still very, very
974
00:48:27,214 --> 00:48:29,222
overweight and very, very unhealthy.
975
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So I reasoned to myself, well, it's not fair
976
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for me just to let the dogs out, go for a pee
and then take them back in.
977
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It's an apartment.
978
00:48:38,102 --> 00:48:39,600
I have to take them to a park.
979
00:48:39,790 --> 00:48:42,404
And if I'm at the park, I might as well start
walking.
980
00:48:42,492 --> 00:48:50,020
So every day, come hecker or high water, I was
at that park walking out of breath, in pain,
981
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back hurting, legs hurting, you know, having,
you know, heart palpitations or whatever.
982
00:48:56,548 --> 00:49:00,436
And every day I could walk a little bit more
and a little bit more and a little bit more.
983
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And because of the dogs, I was able to get to
the point that I was actually able to.
984
00:49:06,732 --> 00:49:09,300
To get in shape again.
985
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,568
And unfortunately, I know myself, and if it
986
00:49:12,584 --> 00:49:17,256
weren't for the fact that they were forcing me
to leave the house, I might not have done it.
987
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Some days, I want to say about.
988
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Leah: Six months later, we did a triple black
diamond hike together where you climbed a
989
00:49:22,728 --> 00:49:23,152
mountain.
990
00:49:23,256 --> 00:49:24,656
Moshe: We climbed a veritable mountain.
991
00:49:24,728 --> 00:49:26,860
And not just like one of those.
992
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,704
Not one of those trails, scaling rocks.
993
00:49:29,752 --> 00:49:34,970
No, like rock faces, holding on to rocks, up
994
00:49:35,010 --> 00:49:36,154
cliffs thing.
995
00:49:36,322 --> 00:49:40,322
It was one of those where at the end of it, we
996
00:49:40,346 --> 00:49:42,426
were like, walking out of the bushes.
997
00:49:42,578 --> 00:49:44,410
Like the end of Lord of the flies.
998
00:49:44,530 --> 00:49:45,250
Leah: Absolutely.
999
00:49:45,330 --> 00:49:48,098
I actually broke my toenail and it was black
1000
00:49:48,154 --> 00:49:49,162
for like a year after that.
1001
00:49:49,186 --> 00:49:55,538
Moshe: But anyway, so I said I went from, like
six months before not being able to walk to
1002
00:49:55,554 --> 00:49:59,550
the end of the block to literally climbing a
cliff face.
1003
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Three times, actually, because we climbed some
more cliff faces before.
1004
00:50:04,540 --> 00:50:10,740
And I convinced the kids to start hiking and
mountain climbing to various levels of
1005
00:50:10,780 --> 00:50:11,292
success.
1006
00:50:11,436 --> 00:50:15,276
So, I mean, unfortunately, the dogs were not
1007
00:50:15,308 --> 00:50:22,460
trained and whatever, but I credit a lot of
what got me out of where I was in a somewhat
1008
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:29,846
bad place mentally and physically, with the
fact that I had to be responsible, at least to
1009
00:50:29,918 --> 00:50:32,558
some degree, with those dogs.
1010
00:50:32,614 --> 00:50:34,930
Leah: And that's the next one, increased
responsibility.
1011
00:50:35,310 --> 00:50:35,958
Moshe: Right.
1012
00:50:36,094 --> 00:50:39,330
Leah: So there's a difference between I don't
want to and I have to.
1013
00:50:39,710 --> 00:50:42,966
Moshe: Yeah. And sometimes you have a stubborn
stubbornness.
1014
00:50:42,998 --> 00:50:43,798
Like me.
1015
00:50:43,974 --> 00:50:46,942
Leah: Yes, for you it was stubbornness, but
for children, it could be something as simple
1016
00:50:46,966 --> 00:50:48,050
as telling time.
1017
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:51,532
Like Mariah is feeding the cat next to for our
1018
00:50:51,556 --> 00:50:51,924
neighbors.
1019
00:50:51,972 --> 00:50:53,836
And she has to keep track of time every day.
1020
00:50:53,868 --> 00:50:56,372
Now she's responsible for something else,
right?
1021
00:50:56,396 --> 00:50:59,956
Moshe: She was given the responsibility when
the neighbors were out of town to watching
1022
00:50:59,988 --> 00:51:00,444
their cat.
1023
00:51:00,492 --> 00:51:03,484
And she has to keep track of time, and she has
1024
00:51:03,532 --> 00:51:06,980
to know how much food to give them and she has
to.
1025
00:51:07,020 --> 00:51:09,588
Oh, how long has it been?
Oh, it's another hour.
1026
00:51:09,644 --> 00:51:11,756
I gotta go and feed the cat.
1027
00:51:11,788 --> 00:51:13,756
But if I don't, then the cat's going to not
1028
00:51:13,788 --> 00:51:14,220
eat.
1029
00:51:14,340 --> 00:51:16,516
So it teaches them to be accountable for
1030
00:51:16,548 --> 00:51:17,300
something else.
1031
00:51:17,420 --> 00:51:20,068
Leah: Exactly. And I think you already covered
it.
1032
00:51:20,084 --> 00:51:22,116
But managing loneliness and depression.
1033
00:51:22,268 --> 00:51:24,340
Yeah, this could be both for kids and adults.
1034
00:51:24,380 --> 00:51:28,724
Very much in adults dealing with the isolation
that sometimes some of the vain or divergent,
1035
00:51:28,772 --> 00:51:32,000
because other adults are not always super
patient.
1036
00:51:32,820 --> 00:51:38,476
Moshe: If you're a neurodivergent or an
autistic with functionality to the level that
1037
00:51:38,508 --> 00:51:44,934
I had, and that hopefully one day Avram will
have, where you're functional enough to be
1038
00:51:45,062 --> 00:51:50,822
able to maintain a job and functional enough
to be able to somewhat maintain a living
1039
00:51:50,886 --> 00:51:55,934
arrangement, then you also still have to
account for the fact that you are still
1040
00:51:55,982 --> 00:52:00,054
autistic and struggle a lot of the time with
social interactions.
1041
00:52:00,222 --> 00:52:08,142
And while it can often be used as a crutch,
and it should never be used to replace person
1042
00:52:08,206 --> 00:52:16,512
on person, physical or social interaction,
having a dog or a cat or a small critter in a
1043
00:52:16,536 --> 00:52:22,768
cage does provide some degree of
companionship.
1044
00:52:22,944 --> 00:52:26,424
Leah: If you hadn't had dogs when you and I
got back together, then I would have had to
1045
00:52:26,512 --> 00:52:29,344
rip you out of the bed and start walking with
you.
1046
00:52:29,432 --> 00:52:32,256
That was the thing, I guess that was the thing
that they helped both.
1047
00:52:32,288 --> 00:52:35,568
Moshe: Of us with physical walking.
1048
00:52:35,664 --> 00:52:40,870
And that's actually why I was so involved with
1049
00:52:40,910 --> 00:52:41,766
dogs.
1050
00:52:41,958 --> 00:52:45,382
It was the only animal that I could have that
1051
00:52:45,406 --> 00:52:48,598
would require me, by virtue of who they were,
leave the house.
1052
00:52:48,774 --> 00:52:50,046
A cat has a litter box.
1053
00:52:50,078 --> 00:52:50,894
A caged animal.
1054
00:52:50,942 --> 00:52:53,518
You can usually go a few days without
changing.
1055
00:52:53,694 --> 00:52:56,462
We're actually going to have to change a small
animal's cage.
1056
00:52:56,486 --> 00:52:57,982
Just talking about responsibility at some
point.
1057
00:52:58,006 --> 00:52:59,570
The litter you bought's really good, though.
1058
00:53:00,270 --> 00:53:01,246
I know my stuff.
1059
00:53:01,318 --> 00:53:05,742
It's the one thing that I can say is hyper
focus works when you're doing the thing that
1060
00:53:05,766 --> 00:53:11,520
you're hyper focusing on, but a dog actually
requires you to leave the house.
1061
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,928
You can be one of those people that teaches
their dog to do their business indoors if
1062
00:53:15,944 --> 00:53:17,624
they're like a small dog or whatever.
1063
00:53:17,752 --> 00:53:19,312
I actually know that there are people that
1064
00:53:19,336 --> 00:53:22,336
have the little dogs and they just buy them
like a litter box.
1065
00:53:22,488 --> 00:53:26,392
Leah: Yeah. The problem with that was I had a
little dog, and eventually I just gave up.
1066
00:53:26,416 --> 00:53:30,016
Because she had such a small bladder, she
often couldn't wait for me.
1067
00:53:30,048 --> 00:53:34,128
So I had the puppy pads, and then she just
preferred to use the puppy padded.
1068
00:53:34,214 --> 00:53:38,132
So going out for her was like an exercise
thing or a fun thing, but we didn't
1069
00:53:38,196 --> 00:53:41,880
necessarily go out for her to do her business,
and that became a whole issue.
1070
00:53:42,460 --> 00:53:44,556
Moshe: So that's kind of self defeatist.
1071
00:53:44,668 --> 00:53:46,620
Not to say that small dogs are not wonderful,
1072
00:53:46,660 --> 00:53:54,092
because they can be, of course, but I needed a
dog that would require me to have a purpose.
1073
00:53:54,276 --> 00:54:02,270
And unfortunately, I was in a bad place, and
the dogs gave me a reason to go outside.
1074
00:54:02,430 --> 00:54:05,610
And because they were big dogs, I had to.
1075
00:54:06,030 --> 00:54:08,878
I sort of induced guilt in myself, like, well,
1076
00:54:09,014 --> 00:54:10,310
you can't just let them out.
1077
00:54:10,350 --> 00:54:11,558
They actually do need to run.
1078
00:54:11,614 --> 00:54:13,406
They need to go someplace else.
1079
00:54:13,558 --> 00:54:15,622
You can't just take them out for a quick pee
1080
00:54:15,646 --> 00:54:17,286
and a **** and then bring them back inside.
1081
00:54:17,358 --> 00:54:20,222
You really should go for at least a semi, you
1082
00:54:20,246 --> 00:54:22,210
know, half a block at least.
1083
00:54:22,590 --> 00:54:25,822
And a lot of the time, I would be taking the
1084
00:54:25,846 --> 00:54:31,752
dog for a walk, and I would need to sit down
before taking them back because I just not.
1085
00:54:31,816 --> 00:54:38,016
I could not physically, you know, do the
exertion of leaving the house, walking them
1086
00:54:38,048 --> 00:54:40,776
down the street, and then taking them back
without resting.
1087
00:54:40,848 --> 00:54:42,616
Leah: But that's the point that has to be
okay.
1088
00:54:42,688 --> 00:54:45,100
If you're at that place, then you're at that
place.
1089
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,576
Crying is the thing that gets results.
1090
00:54:48,768 --> 00:54:50,256
Moshe: And that was important for me.
1091
00:54:50,328 --> 00:54:56,314
And sometimes that is required for certain
1092
00:54:56,362 --> 00:54:56,950
people.
1093
00:54:57,290 --> 00:54:58,474
It's not healthy.
1094
00:54:58,602 --> 00:55:02,954
There has to be better reasons to leave the
house than just the fact that you absolutely
1095
00:55:03,002 --> 00:55:03,778
have to.
1096
00:55:03,954 --> 00:55:07,098
But if you need some reason to get up in the
1097
00:55:07,114 --> 00:55:15,426
morning, even if it's just to say hi to your
goldfish, then that is why animals are there.
1098
00:55:15,538 --> 00:55:18,108
Leah: Yep. So let's talk about the different
types of animals.
1099
00:55:18,234 --> 00:55:19,808
Let's talk service animals.
1100
00:55:19,944 --> 00:55:25,460
Moshe: Okay, so before this episode, we talked
about the different kinds of.
1101
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,752
We'll call them working animals, because we
talked a lot about pets.
1102
00:55:29,856 --> 00:55:35,528
And pets are a category, but pets are sort of
like the jack of all trades.
1103
00:55:35,584 --> 00:55:36,872
Leah: They're the spoiled babies of.
1104
00:55:36,936 --> 00:55:38,240
Moshe: They are animal world.
1105
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,200
But besides pets, there are other categories
1106
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,470
which we will call working animals.
1107
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,450
And they fall into service animals therapy
1108
00:55:46,490 --> 00:55:52,106
animals emotional support animals and horse
therapy or equine therapy or hIPAA therapy,
1109
00:55:52,218 --> 00:55:57,434
which is its own category because it has very
specific utility.
1110
00:55:57,482 --> 00:55:59,082
And we'll talk about that in a second.
1111
00:55:59,226 --> 00:56:02,450
So a service animal, when you hear the term
1112
00:56:02,530 --> 00:56:09,070
service animal, your first thought will
probably be for helping the blind.
1113
00:56:09,380 --> 00:56:11,132
A seeing eye dog, I mean, that.
1114
00:56:11,156 --> 00:56:12,212
Leah: Is a very common one.
1115
00:56:12,236 --> 00:56:14,940
Moshe: Yeah, you'll see like a golden
retriever or a lab.
1116
00:56:15,020 --> 00:56:16,788
Those are very common ones.
1117
00:56:16,924 --> 00:56:20,028
Will actually lead someone who is sight
1118
00:56:20,084 --> 00:56:20,780
impaired.
1119
00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:24,012
You say blind, but blind doesn't always mean
1120
00:56:24,076 --> 00:56:25,668
you can see literally nothing.
1121
00:56:25,764 --> 00:56:28,332
There is a term of legally blind where you're
1122
00:56:28,436 --> 00:56:32,132
physically not able to maneuver your way
around, but you do actually have sight to the
1123
00:56:32,156 --> 00:56:35,176
extent that you can see lights and shapes and
stuff.
1124
00:56:35,348 --> 00:56:38,152
And for those people, seeing eye dogs are
important.
1125
00:56:38,296 --> 00:56:46,752
But service dogs for people with autism,
especially very severe forms of autism, where
1126
00:56:46,776 --> 00:56:51,900
they're basically non functional a lot of the
time are important.
1127
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,760
Especially if they can't vocalize their needs.
1128
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:55,648
Leah: Absolutely.
1129
00:56:55,704 --> 00:56:58,736
So they can be trained, as you said, to nudge
1130
00:56:58,768 --> 00:57:02,988
their head against somebody or lay on them or
lay next to them if they're having a meltdown,
1131
00:57:03,164 --> 00:57:07,540
they can be trained to go run and get mom if,
you know, somebody falls down or hurts
1132
00:57:07,580 --> 00:57:08,076
themselves.
1133
00:57:08,188 --> 00:57:10,980
They can be trained to do all kinds of things.
1134
00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:16,164
My favorite type of service dog that I ever
heard about was actually an epilepsy dog.
1135
00:57:16,252 --> 00:57:16,708
Moshe: Yes.
1136
00:57:16,804 --> 00:57:18,876
Leah: And I'll tell you why I find that so
cool.
1137
00:57:18,988 --> 00:57:23,960
Because they can actually sense an epileptic
seizure before the person even does by scent.
1138
00:57:24,260 --> 00:57:27,396
And then they warn the person by nudging them
that they're going to have a seizure.
1139
00:57:27,428 --> 00:57:32,844
So the person has time to go sit down
somewhere or lay down on the floor, not be in
1140
00:57:32,852 --> 00:57:37,340
the middle of the road or whatever else, and
they will often again, push, you know, push
1141
00:57:37,380 --> 00:57:40,908
against their leg or whatever to calm them
down.
1142
00:57:41,084 --> 00:57:43,644
I thought that was honestly the coolest type
of service dog.
1143
00:57:43,732 --> 00:57:49,548
Moshe: Service dogs are amazing, but a service
dog is specifically service animals.
1144
00:57:49,604 --> 00:57:52,388
I mean, but they are generally going to be
dog.
1145
00:57:52,564 --> 00:57:55,934
I haven't really heard of a service animal
that's not a dog.
1146
00:57:56,052 --> 00:57:58,390
But they're performing a specific duty.
1147
00:57:58,690 --> 00:58:00,042
That's their job.
1148
00:58:00,226 --> 00:58:01,138
Leah: Not pets?
1149
00:58:01,234 --> 00:58:02,250
Moshe: No, they're not pets.
1150
00:58:02,290 --> 00:58:03,682
They are actually on the job.
1151
00:58:03,706 --> 00:58:05,250
I mean, I'm sure they receive love.
1152
00:58:05,410 --> 00:58:07,362
I used to, when I was very little, I used to
1153
00:58:07,386 --> 00:58:11,378
feel really sorry for service dogs because I
would see these people walking around with
1154
00:58:11,394 --> 00:58:13,826
these seeing eye dogs and go, that's so sad
that they never.
1155
00:58:13,938 --> 00:58:14,738
They don't get love.
1156
00:58:14,794 --> 00:58:15,090
That's.
1157
00:58:15,130 --> 00:58:16,242
They're always working.
1158
00:58:16,426 --> 00:58:19,730
And someone told me, no, like, when the vest
1159
00:58:19,770 --> 00:58:25,388
or whatever, when the, like, harness comes
off, they do get all sorts of love and
1160
00:58:25,524 --> 00:58:26,260
attention.
1161
00:58:26,420 --> 00:58:30,244
Leah: That's the thing that they teach kids
now when he's wearing a vest, he's working.
1162
00:58:30,412 --> 00:58:31,052
Moshe: Right.
1163
00:58:31,196 --> 00:58:37,868
So therapy animals are kind of like pets in
1164
00:58:37,884 --> 00:58:45,876
the sense that they're not doing a job per se,
but what they are is in a work site.
1165
00:58:45,948 --> 00:58:49,436
And that work site, you think, like, oh, the
construction site.
1166
00:58:49,548 --> 00:58:54,140
No. Therapy animals work in schools.
1167
00:58:54,300 --> 00:58:57,308
They work in hospital hospitals.
1168
00:58:57,484 --> 00:59:04,080
They are not as restricted as service animals,
but therapy animals are there.
1169
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:06,440
Okay, I'll give you a perfect example.
1170
00:59:07,380 --> 00:59:11,380
My older daughter went to a school, and there
1171
00:59:11,420 --> 00:59:19,996
were therapy dogs in the guidance counselor
slate suite where they had a facility set up
1172
00:59:20,028 --> 00:59:26,764
where that if they had children who were
having an emotional episode, they were in the
1173
00:59:26,772 --> 00:59:31,356
midst of a crisis or having a panic attack,
that they would actually have these dogs,
1174
00:59:31,388 --> 00:59:36,708
which were brothers, and they would let them
sit there and they would just pet the dogs,
1175
00:59:36,804 --> 00:59:38,076
and the dogs would be there.
1176
00:59:38,148 --> 00:59:41,068
And they knew that their job was to provide
1177
00:59:41,124 --> 00:59:41,412
support.
1178
00:59:41,476 --> 00:59:44,616
So they could hug them and they could squeeze
1179
00:59:44,648 --> 00:59:45,224
them.
1180
00:59:45,392 --> 00:59:46,800
They were prepared.
1181
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:47,984
They were there.
1182
00:59:48,112 --> 00:59:50,792
Their job was to provide emotional support.
1183
00:59:50,976 --> 00:59:52,224
But that's not emotional support.
1184
00:59:52,272 --> 00:59:53,320
That's a different category.
1185
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,912
Their job was to provide therapy.
1186
00:59:56,096 --> 01:00:00,016
Another idea is sometimes with senior
1187
01:00:00,128 --> 01:00:07,184
residents, they will bring in, I once saw this
really interesting short.
1188
01:00:07,352 --> 01:00:11,534
They had this little, I don't know, like a
Maltese or something, like the little tiny
1189
01:00:11,622 --> 01:00:12,406
dog.
1190
01:00:12,598 --> 01:00:15,526
And they would just, you know, they would just
1191
01:00:15,558 --> 01:00:20,530
bring it in to the, to the residents on the
residences, kind of hold them and have them
1192
01:00:20,910 --> 01:00:24,742
feel good and talk to the dog, and the dog
would let them and make them feel good.
1193
01:00:24,766 --> 01:00:28,318
Leah: So apropos of nothing, you know what
they've also started doing for elder
1194
01:00:28,374 --> 01:00:31,486
residents?
Bringing them those, you know, live baby doll
1195
01:00:31,518 --> 01:00:31,854
things.
1196
01:00:31,942 --> 01:00:32,366
Moshe: Yeah.
1197
01:00:32,438 --> 01:00:35,764
Leah: And letting them, especially the women,
letting them hold them.
1198
01:00:35,932 --> 01:00:41,920
Moshe: Yeah. A lot of the women in residence.
1199
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:44,236
Leah: Will they think they're in their
twenties.
1200
01:00:44,388 --> 01:00:46,044
Moshe: Well, that's a little bit more.
1201
01:00:46,132 --> 01:00:49,780
But just having baby doll, like a live baby
1202
01:00:49,820 --> 01:00:53,388
that acts and behaves like a baby is
important.
1203
01:00:53,524 --> 01:00:59,812
But especially, unfortunately, for seniors
with dementia, who legitimately feel that
1204
01:00:59,876 --> 01:01:05,054
they're in their twenties, and you have these
elderly residents that are walking around
1205
01:01:05,102 --> 01:01:06,798
going, where's my baby?
Where's my baby?
1206
01:01:06,854 --> 01:01:07,302
Leah: Yeah.
1207
01:01:07,406 --> 01:01:11,582
Moshe: And they give them a baby doll and
that's it calms them down.
1208
01:01:11,646 --> 01:01:14,054
Leah: But like, the realistic baby dolls, not
the.
1209
01:01:14,142 --> 01:01:16,366
Moshe: That's also plastic one, for sure.
1210
01:01:16,558 --> 01:01:19,110
Leah: Emotional support, palliative care.
1211
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:20,710
Yeah, that's another place where.
1212
01:01:20,750 --> 01:01:21,622
Moshe: Back to therapy.
1213
01:01:21,726 --> 01:01:22,966
Leah: Therapy animals.
1214
01:01:23,038 --> 01:01:23,246
Right.
1215
01:01:23,278 --> 01:01:24,038
Moshe: Back to therapy.
1216
01:01:24,094 --> 01:01:26,614
Palliative care has therapy animals.
1217
01:01:26,782 --> 01:01:34,246
Obviously, end of life can be a scary thing,
but having a dog or, I mean, there are cats
1218
01:01:34,358 --> 01:01:36,502
that I've seen live on palliative care floors.
1219
01:01:36,606 --> 01:01:38,806
Just having an animal there that you can just
1220
01:01:38,878 --> 01:01:45,526
pet and feel good about yourself, that is
important for that part of the end of your
1221
01:01:45,558 --> 01:01:46,110
life.
1222
01:01:46,270 --> 01:01:52,342
Emotional support animals are becoming, or
1223
01:01:52,366 --> 01:01:55,982
have been for quite a while, quite an
interesting topic.
1224
01:01:56,086 --> 01:01:59,958
Leah: They're kind of like a pet with a fancy
nickname, I find.
1225
01:02:00,054 --> 01:02:04,382
Moshe: Yeah. And there's always going to be
these articles out there of people that try to
1226
01:02:04,406 --> 01:02:05,078
push the system.
1227
01:02:05,134 --> 01:02:07,038
This is my emotional support camel.
1228
01:02:07,174 --> 01:02:09,334
This is my emotional support dinosaur.
1229
01:02:09,382 --> 01:02:10,730
You know, things like that.
1230
01:02:12,030 --> 01:02:18,710
It is a somewhat regulated field where you can
actually do certain things and get a fancy
1231
01:02:18,750 --> 01:02:23,420
vest that says that your animal, be it,
whatever it is, is an emotional spot animal.
1232
01:02:23,580 --> 01:02:26,756
It's less about the animal and more about the
person.
1233
01:02:26,868 --> 01:02:32,828
The first with service animals and therapy
animals, those are trained animals that have a
1234
01:02:32,924 --> 01:02:33,560
job.
1235
01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:36,948
Emotional support animals are animals that the
1236
01:02:37,004 --> 01:02:38,820
person finds.
1237
01:02:38,900 --> 01:02:42,636
Leah: They're the ones that provide the things
we talked about earlier, the textural support,
1238
01:02:42,708 --> 01:02:46,388
the pressure, the feeling in your hand, the
company.
1239
01:02:46,564 --> 01:02:48,676
Moshe: I walk around with a rabbit.
1240
01:02:48,828 --> 01:02:51,156
Leah: I walk around with a boa constrictor
around me.
1241
01:02:51,268 --> 01:02:52,972
Moshe: This is my boa constrictor.
1242
01:02:53,116 --> 01:02:55,156
It squeezes me and it makes me feel good.
1243
01:02:55,228 --> 01:02:59,428
This is my emotional control or emotional
support.
1244
01:02:59,604 --> 01:03:00,164
Whatever.
1245
01:03:00,252 --> 01:03:00,780
Leah: Hamster.
1246
01:03:00,860 --> 01:03:01,620
Moshe: Hamster.
1247
01:03:01,780 --> 01:03:04,060
I need this hamster to feel good about
1248
01:03:04,100 --> 01:03:04,372
everything.
1249
01:03:04,436 --> 01:03:07,116
I take it with me and it's there and it makes
1250
01:03:07,148 --> 01:03:07,908
me happy.
1251
01:03:08,044 --> 01:03:08,836
Pets are pets.
1252
01:03:08,868 --> 01:03:10,120
Pets are just there.
1253
01:03:10,460 --> 01:03:14,012
And hypotherapy real quick because we're
1254
01:03:14,036 --> 01:03:16,400
already approaching the hour in ten mark.
1255
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,784
Horse therapy is a very complex topic, but
1256
01:03:21,832 --> 01:03:26,660
really quickly, every act of being with a
horse performed serves a purpose.
1257
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:33,392
They have autistic people doing horseback
riding because it improves their control, it
1258
01:03:33,416 --> 01:03:37,792
improves their strength, it improves their
balance, their core strength.
1259
01:03:37,936 --> 01:03:42,386
The act of brushing the horse does the same
thing as petting certain things.
1260
01:03:42,568 --> 01:03:47,926
Horses provide a whole lot of things and a lot
of these things.
1261
01:03:48,038 --> 01:03:51,758
Leah: Don't you think it also could be the
opposite of the mouse theory where you're
1262
01:03:51,814 --> 01:03:54,374
having to handle something so much bigger than
you.
1263
01:03:54,422 --> 01:04:01,598
So it has sort of the same effect where you
learn new techniques for handling yourself in
1264
01:04:01,614 --> 01:04:02,238
your body.
1265
01:04:02,374 --> 01:04:02,670
Moshe: Right.
1266
01:04:02,710 --> 01:04:04,398
Because when you're with something, like you
1267
01:04:04,414 --> 01:04:09,920
said, that's the opposite of the mouse, where
you're with this giant creature that you could
1268
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,072
squeeze and it wouldn't even equal half of
their musculature.
1269
01:04:14,216 --> 01:04:15,704
You have to be careful.
1270
01:04:15,872 --> 01:04:18,040
You have to keep yourself upright.
1271
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:19,504
Leah: You're the mouse, basically, yeah.
1272
01:04:19,552 --> 01:04:22,180
Moshe: You have to watch how the horse handles
you.
1273
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:34,360
There's a really interesting user on Reddit,
and she runs a, I guess you could call it as a
1274
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:39,630
farm, but her trade is cows.
1275
01:04:40,090 --> 01:04:45,082
She has a bunch of cows, and she's trained the
1276
01:04:45,106 --> 01:04:49,234
cows to be service cows, to be therapy cows.
1277
01:04:49,282 --> 01:04:49,938
Leah: Wow.
1278
01:04:50,114 --> 01:04:53,954
Moshe: Because she said that the thing with a
cow, they're.
1279
01:04:54,082 --> 01:04:55,962
Leah: Cows are too dumb for that.
1280
01:04:56,066 --> 01:04:57,874
Moshe: No. I'll show you the videos.
1281
01:04:58,002 --> 01:04:59,430
I'll show you the videos.
1282
01:05:00,370 --> 01:05:05,562
And she talks about the benefits of cow
therapy because you have this giant creature
1283
01:05:05,626 --> 01:05:13,834
whose head is the size of your body a lot of
the time, and you are, first of all, you can
1284
01:05:13,882 --> 01:05:16,458
squeeze the cow as much as you want.
1285
01:05:16,514 --> 01:05:18,150
It's not going to do nothing.
1286
01:05:18,650 --> 01:05:22,346
And you can even lie on top of the cow if
you've trained it enough.
1287
01:05:22,498 --> 01:05:24,522
And the cow will barely feel you.
1288
01:05:24,546 --> 01:05:28,074
Because the cow is a giant creature and a cow.
1289
01:05:28,122 --> 01:05:29,810
Leah: I think cows kill more people than
sharks.
1290
01:05:29,890 --> 01:05:31,650
Weird, strange fact, but.
1291
01:05:31,730 --> 01:05:33,510
Moshe: Well, they can for sure.
1292
01:05:33,890 --> 01:05:39,458
But a cow can provide a level of love because
1293
01:05:39,514 --> 01:05:46,786
of the fact that it is purely herbivorous and
it really doesn't serve much like it.
1294
01:05:46,858 --> 01:05:50,162
Unless you're, like, eating it or whatever,
which you could dig.
1295
01:05:50,266 --> 01:05:57,070
Some people love hamburgers, I guess, but cows
are far less skittish than horses.
1296
01:05:57,380 --> 01:05:59,068
They require far less maintenance.
1297
01:05:59,124 --> 01:06:01,788
You just basically have to send a cow into a
1298
01:06:01,804 --> 01:06:02,076
field.
1299
01:06:02,148 --> 01:06:06,332
Leah: I don't know if we've mentioned this
before, but Moshe is a strictly lacta ovo
1300
01:06:06,356 --> 01:06:07,204
pescatarian.
1301
01:06:07,292 --> 01:06:09,012
He doesn't eat land animals.
1302
01:06:09,116 --> 01:06:12,876
Moshe: I haven't had land animals for a very
long time, and it's not necessarily for
1303
01:06:12,908 --> 01:06:15,932
religious reasons, and it's not necessarily
for health reasons.
1304
01:06:15,956 --> 01:06:18,772
Leah: Auburn and I eat beef sometimes when
we're out, not in house.
1305
01:06:18,916 --> 01:06:20,840
Moshe: But I've actually just.
1306
01:06:21,220 --> 01:06:25,210
I can't bring myself anymore to eat an animal
1307
01:06:25,250 --> 01:06:28,430
that I wouldn't be prepared to slaughter
myself.
1308
01:06:28,770 --> 01:06:36,330
And I know that, especially being a jewish
person, the slaughter method that we use is
1309
01:06:36,370 --> 01:06:37,386
very humane.
1310
01:06:37,498 --> 01:06:42,330
But I've seen enough cows and other animals
1311
01:06:42,370 --> 01:06:45,082
that I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
1312
01:06:45,146 --> 01:06:46,474
It's a personal choice.
1313
01:06:46,642 --> 01:06:49,818
I'm not advocating not eating meat.
1314
01:06:49,994 --> 01:06:52,906
I will still have meat on occasion when it's
1315
01:06:52,938 --> 01:06:55,482
presented to me, and that's okay.
1316
01:06:55,546 --> 01:06:57,362
Like, that's just how it is.
1317
01:06:57,506 --> 01:07:04,906
But I, as a rule, except on very special
occasions, I will not eat meat.
1318
01:07:05,098 --> 01:07:06,082
I'll eat fish.
1319
01:07:06,186 --> 01:07:07,162
I mean, I don't care about fish.
1320
01:07:07,186 --> 01:07:09,010
Leah: Yeah, we eat fish at home, so.
1321
01:07:09,050 --> 01:07:09,298
Moshe: Sure.
1322
01:07:09,354 --> 01:07:12,510
Leah: I mean, we eat only dairy and eggs and
fish at home.
1323
01:07:12,850 --> 01:07:15,146
It just keeps the kitchen less complicated.
1324
01:07:15,218 --> 01:07:16,470
Moshe: Speaking of animals.
1325
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:21,540
And no, we're not going to go all that way.
1326
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:24,496
But, yeah.
1327
01:07:24,688 --> 01:07:26,616
Final thoughts, lady.
1328
01:07:26,648 --> 01:07:30,568
Leah: Actually, I had a really cool note here
that I was going to ask you for your final
1329
01:07:30,624 --> 01:07:30,872
thoughts.
1330
01:07:30,896 --> 01:07:35,296
On how would somebody know how to match an
1331
01:07:35,328 --> 01:07:38,680
appropriate pet or an appropriate service
animal to their needs?
1332
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,736
So let's say there's a parent out there that's
saying, you know what?
1333
01:07:41,768 --> 01:07:43,352
I have the time and resources for this.
1334
01:07:43,376 --> 01:07:46,058
My autistic kid could use blank.
1335
01:07:46,194 --> 01:07:49,190
How would they sort of match them?
1336
01:07:49,690 --> 01:07:52,954
Moshe: Well, first of all, when you're talking
about service animals, you're specifically
1337
01:07:53,002 --> 01:07:54,778
talking about dogs most of the time.
1338
01:07:54,874 --> 01:07:56,986
But if you're looking, for example, to provide
1339
01:07:57,058 --> 01:08:03,146
your autistic child with a pet, I think the
first thing that you want to decide is what is
1340
01:08:03,178 --> 01:08:10,338
your, your child's capacity to care for an
animal that's smaller and more vulnerable than
1341
01:08:10,354 --> 01:08:14,988
it is?
We bought Avraham a mouse because we trust him
1342
01:08:15,084 --> 01:08:18,004
to know how to provide for the mouse.
1343
01:08:18,092 --> 01:08:19,996
He might lose the mouse, but he's certainly
1344
01:08:20,028 --> 01:08:23,364
not going to harm the mouse because he's a
very gentle person.
1345
01:08:23,412 --> 01:08:30,676
And while oftentimes he does struggle with
walking in a straight line, he does great,
1346
01:08:30,708 --> 01:08:31,268
fine motors.
1347
01:08:31,324 --> 01:08:33,076
He has enough control over his hands.
1348
01:08:33,108 --> 01:08:38,272
He's an amazing artist that I know that if
he's petting a mouse, once he knows how hard
1349
01:08:38,296 --> 01:08:40,680
he's allowed to pet them, he's certainly not
going to do it.
1350
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:44,416
Leah: Yeah, one of the ironic things, and we
talk about that a lot, which is, you know,
1351
01:08:44,448 --> 01:08:49,336
developing out of sync that happened to him
was he developed insanely good, fine motor
1352
01:08:49,368 --> 01:08:51,040
skills, which isn't typical.
1353
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,352
He was building tiny legos really early, and
1354
01:08:53,376 --> 01:08:57,216
he was drawing, but his gross motor skills are
still not good.
1355
01:08:57,288 --> 01:08:59,408
Like, he'll just be standing there and fall
down.
1356
01:08:59,544 --> 01:09:05,936
Moshe: So if you have a child that is able to
regulate their emotions, because it does come
1357
01:09:05,968 --> 01:09:10,976
with emotional regulation, small animals, like
mice or gerbils or whatever, you can't scream
1358
01:09:11,008 --> 01:09:11,952
and screech around them.
1359
01:09:11,976 --> 01:09:13,072
It makes them very scared.
1360
01:09:13,136 --> 01:09:14,272
Leah: Rapid, which he did the first day.
1361
01:09:14,296 --> 01:09:17,520
Moshe: Because he does, but it wasn't like he
learned, you know, if you're.
1362
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:20,392
If you're the kind of child that does yell all
the.
1363
01:09:20,416 --> 01:09:23,912
Or if you have the kind of child that's gonna
yell and scream and whatever and doesn't
1364
01:09:24,096 --> 01:09:27,992
emotionally regulate as much, it's probably
not good to get, like, a rabbit or a mouse or
1365
01:09:28,016 --> 01:09:33,446
anything that responds very badly to high
pitched noises, you might want to go more
1366
01:09:33,518 --> 01:09:35,062
towards something bigger.
1367
01:09:35,246 --> 01:09:38,270
Rats can also be good, but they also are quite
1368
01:09:38,310 --> 01:09:40,530
small when compared to other animals.
1369
01:09:41,710 --> 01:09:46,446
Cats and dogs might be easier if you.
1370
01:09:46,558 --> 01:09:49,182
If you are more that way.
1371
01:09:49,206 --> 01:09:50,894
But the other thing you have to consider is
1372
01:09:50,942 --> 01:09:52,486
level of responsibility.
1373
01:09:52,678 --> 01:09:55,998
If you have a child that knows how to, you
1374
01:09:56,014 --> 01:10:01,006
know, look in on their animals and make sure
they have enough food and water and can do it
1375
01:10:01,038 --> 01:10:02,310
consistently and regularly.
1376
01:10:02,350 --> 01:10:05,718
Leah: If you've been listening since the
beginning, you'll see that our conversation
1377
01:10:05,774 --> 01:10:10,718
reminded Avram to check on the animals during
the podcast, so he made sure that they had
1378
01:10:10,734 --> 01:10:11,262
food and water.
1379
01:10:11,326 --> 01:10:16,022
Moshe: So if you have a child that is able to
understand, okay, now every day you have to
1380
01:10:16,046 --> 01:10:17,790
check to make sure that they have enough food.
1381
01:10:17,910 --> 01:10:19,574
Every day you have to check to make sure they
1382
01:10:19,582 --> 01:10:20,530
have enough water.
1383
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:26,536
You have to know what you're doing, then that
1384
01:10:26,568 --> 01:10:27,640
would be a good idea.
1385
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:31,568
But if you have a child that is inconsistent
1386
01:10:31,704 --> 01:10:36,968
and often struggles with remembering basic
responsibilities, then obviously something
1387
01:10:37,024 --> 01:10:42,152
that requires regular care, and especially
things like a dog, that requires walking and
1388
01:10:42,176 --> 01:10:46,912
feeding and watering and petting and the whole
mess of it, it's going to be more of a
1389
01:10:46,936 --> 01:10:47,296
challenge.
1390
01:10:47,328 --> 01:10:49,128
They might be better with a cat, because a
1391
01:10:49,144 --> 01:10:56,732
cat, despite like the claws or whatever, a
cat, if you forget to, you know, feed it or
1392
01:10:56,756 --> 01:11:01,436
give it water for a day or two, it's not going
to die necessarily.
1393
01:11:01,588 --> 01:11:03,300
And it doesn't need to go for a walk.
1394
01:11:03,420 --> 01:11:05,680
And of course the parents can help out too,
1395
01:11:06,620 --> 01:11:06,956
right?
1396
01:11:06,988 --> 01:11:08,476
Leah: So final thought, maybe a fish.
1397
01:11:08,628 --> 01:11:09,660
Moshe: Final thought, you never know.
1398
01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:11,636
Leah: We're huge animal lovers in this house.
1399
01:11:11,708 --> 01:11:12,324
Moshe: We do.
1400
01:11:12,452 --> 01:11:13,604
I grew up with animals.
1401
01:11:13,692 --> 01:11:14,620
You had animals.
1402
01:11:14,700 --> 01:11:17,468
Leah: Animals are wonderful, but you have to
be responsible.
1403
01:11:17,564 --> 01:11:21,092
You have to be able to afford them, all right?
You have to be able to train them and give
1404
01:11:21,116 --> 01:11:22,396
them all the life they deserve.
1405
01:11:22,508 --> 01:11:25,140
And then you have to put limits on, on
1406
01:11:25,180 --> 01:11:25,524
animals.
1407
01:11:25,572 --> 01:11:27,268
So that's number one.
1408
01:11:27,324 --> 01:11:29,228
First, you have to be responsible with them.
1409
01:11:29,364 --> 01:11:31,492
Second, you do have to match them, especially
1410
01:11:31,556 --> 01:11:35,268
if you have a neurodivergent child to that
child's needs or abilities.
1411
01:11:35,444 --> 01:11:36,160
Moshe: Right.
1412
01:11:36,860 --> 01:11:39,920
Leah: And otherwise, again, we're huge fans.
1413
01:11:40,220 --> 01:11:41,108
Animals.
1414
01:11:41,284 --> 01:11:42,160
Wonderful.
1415
01:11:42,580 --> 01:11:43,734
Moshe: Thanks for listening.
1416
01:11:43,852 --> 01:11:47,930
Next week we might have some guests, we might
1417
01:11:47,970 --> 01:11:48,578
not.
1418
01:11:48,754 --> 01:11:52,074
And once again, just very quickly, like
1419
01:11:52,122 --> 01:11:55,430
subscribe, download, listen, share with your
friends.
1420
01:11:55,770 --> 01:12:01,082
We, the more viewers we have, viewers, I say
viewers, the more listeners we have, the more
1421
01:12:01,106 --> 01:12:06,914
downloaders we have, the more views, I say
views, again, the more listens that these
1422
01:12:06,962 --> 01:12:12,750
episodes have, the faster we can grow, the
more we can do, the better guests we can have.
1423
01:12:13,340 --> 01:12:14,988
Leah: We're working on some really cool ones.
1424
01:12:15,044 --> 01:12:15,692
Moshe: We really are.
1425
01:12:15,756 --> 01:12:18,400
And we'll see you next week.
1426
01:12:19,140 --> 01:12:20,940
Well, that's our show for today.
1427
01:12:21,100 --> 01:12:23,420
Now, you know, one autistic just a little bit
1428
01:12:23,460 --> 01:12:24,040
better.
1429
01:12:24,500 --> 01:12:27,900
So something you may not know about some
1430
01:12:27,940 --> 01:12:32,400
autistics is that we often struggle with
ending social interactions.
1431
01:12:32,780 --> 01:12:34,440
So leah.
1432
01:12:35,220 --> 01:12:37,596
Leah: All right, Moshe, I'll take care of
it.
1433
01:12:37,748 --> 01:12:40,678
Thank you for listening to now you know one
autistic.
1434
01:12:40,734 --> 01:12:41,510
See you next week.
Version: 20240731