Now You Know One Autistic! Podcast
Episode Title: The Pawsome Power of Pets: Transforming Autistic Lives
Episode Number: 17
Release Date: July 15, 2024
Duration: 01:12:41
Episode Summary:
In this episode of Now You Know One Autistic, Moshe and Leah, joined by their children Raya and Avram, discuss the benefits of animals for autistic individuals and families. They explore the calming effects of pets, their role in teaching empathy and responsibility, and how they can help manage anxiety and depression. The conversation also delves into different types of working animals, including service animals, therapy animals, and emotional support animals, highlighting their specific roles and training. Additionally, the hosts touch upon hippotherapy (horse therapy) and its benefits for autistic individuals. The episode concludes with a discussion on choosing the right pet for a neurodivergent child, considering factors like the child's abilities and the animal's needs.
Key Takeaways:
- Benefits of Pets for Autistic Individuals: Pets can reduce stress, relieve anxiety, teach empathy, increase responsibility, and help manage loneliness and depression.
- Types of Working Animals: Service animals, therapy animals, and emotional support animals each have distinct roles and training to support individuals with specific needs.
- Hippotherapy (Horse Therapy): Horse therapy offers various benefits for autistic individuals, including improved motor skills, balance, and emotional regulation.
- Choosing the Right Pet: Selecting a pet for a neurodivergent child involves considering the child's abilities, the animal's needs, and the family's lifestyle.
In This Episode, You Will Learn:
- How animals can positively impact the lives of autistic individuals and families.
- The different types of working animals and their specific roles.
- The benefits of hippotherapy for autistic individuals.
- Factors to consider when choosing a pet for a neurodivergent child.
Quotes:
- "One of the most beautiful things about a dog or a cat or any animal is that the question is not even whether or not it can tell if you're autistic. The fact is it doesn't care." - Moshe
- "If you have a child that is able to understand, okay, now every day you have to check to make sure that they have enough food. Every day you have to check to make sure they have enough water... then that would be a good idea." - Moshe
- "Animals are wonderful, but you have to be responsible. You have to be able to afford them, all right? You have to be able to train them and give them all the life they deserve." - Leah
Resources & Links:
- Patreon: patreon.com/knowoneautistic
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Transcript:
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Moshe: Hi, I'm Moshe and I'm autistic.
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Leah: I'm Leah, and I'm boring.
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Welcome to the now, you know, one autistic
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podcast.
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Moshe: The opinions expressed in this podcast
reflect one autistic and one leia and don't
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necessarily reflect the entire autistic
community.
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Leah: Let's get to it.
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Hi, Moshe.
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Moshe: Hi, Leah.
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Raya: Hi, Avram.
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Avrum: Hi.
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Leah: So you may have noticed that we have
some additional people on today.
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Why is that, moshe?
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Moshe: Yeah. So we have Raya, our daughter,
returning for yet another episode.
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And we have our son Avram, who is joining us.
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And why he is joining us, Aleya, is that we're
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going to be talking today about animals.
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Leah: Animals and how they affect autistics
specifically and possibly other
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neurodivergents and even neurotypicals.
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So, Avram, introduce yourself.
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Avrum: Hi, I am Avram.
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I am ten.
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And I like mice and chinchillas.
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Leah: That's very cool.
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Moshe: I like mice and chinchillas, too.
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I've never had a chinchilla, but I've seen
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them a lot.
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And they're really fluffy.
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Leah: I've heard that they're very skittish.
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Moshe: They're very skittish, but they're very
fluffy.
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Leah: Scare them too much, all their hair
falls out.
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That's what I heard.
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It could be a rumor.
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Moshe: I've never seen it happen, but I have
seen them rolling around in dust baths, which
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is just adorable.
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Leah: And of course, Raya, just in case
anybody's been living under a rock and didn't
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hear your last episode introduce.
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Raya: Yes, just in case anybody didn't hear my
last episode, my name is Raya.
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I'm eleven years old.
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Moshe: Almost twelve.
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Raya: Yeah, almost twelve in like a month.
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And dinosaur, you like dinosaurs?
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Moshe: She likes dinosaurs.
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And gerbils.
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Leah: She likes dinosaurs.
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So, Avram, talk about your new pets.
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Avrum: So we have a mice and a mice that was
living in our wall.
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Moshe: We have two mice.
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Leah: Explain how that happened.
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Moshe: One mice and two mice.
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Avrum: The one living in our walls or the one
that we bought?
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Leah: Both.
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Avrum: So we had this mice.
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Moshe: We live in Israel, and Israel has a lot
of very old buildings.
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Avrum: Had this mouse named Fred and he was
living in between my closet and my wall.
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And I named him Freddy.
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And he escaped.
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Then the next day we bought a mouse and two
mesh free pets that Raya will be talking about
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in her segment.
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And we named him nibbles because he nibbled
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Abba on the way home.
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Leah: But that was Abbas fault, right?
Because Abba grabbed his tail, right?
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He didn't like that.
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So tell us about nibbles and tell us about the
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other mouse now.
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Avrum: Oh, yeah, we got another mouse in the
walls.
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I forgot the name.
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Did we ever choose?
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Moshe: I don't know that we actually named.
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Leah: Her because we're thinking about Chili,
because she's kind of spicy.
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Raya: Yeah, we named her chili.
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Moshe: Oh, we did name her chili.
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Leah: I think we're thinking about chili, but
she, nipples is a boy and she is a girl.
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She is a wild mouse, and he is a pet mouse.
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But they're getting along just fine, and we'll
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see what comes of that.
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Moshe: Israel is abound with rodents because
of the old buildings.
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And if you ever do come here, you will notice
that there are wild cats everywhere.
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Not like wild cats, you think of lions and
tigers, but no, just ordinary house cats that
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were brought over by the British in 1940.
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Leah: Something to kill the mice.
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Moshe: To kill the mice.
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And then they just bred and bred and bred and
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bred and bred.
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And now there are cats everywhere, so it's
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very difficult to find small rodents outside,
so they congregate inside.
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And it's very common that, you know, a lot of
the older buildings in Israel have mice in
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them.
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And normally you would see the mice and be
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like, oh, my gosh, there's a mouse.
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But of course, me, I'm like, oh, they're so
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cute.
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We should catch them and keep them as pets.
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So that's kind of how that started.
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Now, I do want to advise, as a disclaimer,
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that you should never try and keep animals
that you catch as pests.
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These mice are, they're not diseased or
anything.
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Leah: They clearly grew up in our apartment.
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Moshe: I kept them in quarantine for a while
in the trap to observe them.
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And there's no illness, there's no sickness.
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I was able to inspect the ones that we caught,
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and they appear healthy and normal, and using
a lot of supervision, we put them in with our
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pet mouse.
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And of course, if there was ever any problems,
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we were going to immediately separate them.
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But he being a male mouse and she being a
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female mouse, he grabbed her and took to her
right away.
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And she's not so thrilled with the whole cage
situation, but she's definitely likes him.
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She's definitely very happy with the food and
water, whatever she needs to.
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And she now allows him to groom her.
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Leah: So I'd just like to point out that one
of Moshe's special interests is animals of all
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kinds.
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So we don't actually advise anybody do this
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without essentially having the equivalent of a
university degree in small animals like he
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does.
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Moshe: They're my hyperfocus.
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Leah: So if you do have questions.
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You can message him about them.
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Avram wants to say something.
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Avrum: As we're speaking right now, I hear one
of the mice in the walls.
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Leah: That makes sense.
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Moshe: Yes. There's a lot of relatives for
little chili that are running around.
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Celeste, you feel that we are unfairly
containing wild animals?
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There's plenty of wild animals still left in
the walls.
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And of course, I would certainly not advise
trapping them, but this is more or less an
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experiment.
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And nibbles seems quite happy with the test
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that we're doing.
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Leah: So now, of course, Moshe has a hyper
focus on small animals, so he bought several
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cages, and one of them was too big for mice.
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So, Raya, talk to us about your new pets.
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Raya: Yay. Okay, so we have two new mystery
pets that are named Cheerio and Colonel, and
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they are gerbils.
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They are very adorable.
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And one of them actually just learned how to
climb the tube that's connected to their cage.
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And it's really cute watching him jump up the
tube.
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Moshe: We're doing the habit trail thing.
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Well, not habit trail, because it's not
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officially a habit trail, but it's the kind of
habit trail knockoff that you can get on.
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Like Alibaba.
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Leah: No, we bought that one at the pet store.
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Moshe: Did we?
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Leah: The mouse house.
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Lee Bob.
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Moshe: I think it's still one of those ones.
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It didn't have the official habitual logo,
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though.
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Leah: I don't know, but it looks pretty good.
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Moshe: Oh, no, it's fully solid.
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It works really, really well.
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It's just, honestly, I'm kind of excited to
possibly one day look into buying some extra
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tubes and creating networks of.
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Leah: Stuff that could be lots of fun.
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So the reality is, it was completely by
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accident that we have two opposite gender
mice.
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But we figured that was okay because they're
not related.
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But the gerbils that we bought were related,
all from the same litter.
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So we bought two boys because boys are sweeter
and we don't want them to breathe with each
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other.
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Right?
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Moshe: Yes.
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Leah: Avram wants to say something, and by the
names.
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Avrum: Guess which one learned how to go to
the slide.
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Moshe: I don't know that the viewers can
guess.
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Leah: Well, I mean, so Cheerio is the one who
learned how to go on the slide.
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But then he showed his brother colonel, and
now they're both doing it.
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Moshe: They both sleep in the tube.
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Avrum: Yes.
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Raya: Cheerio always likes to hang out in the
tube.
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It's like his hangout spot now a little bit
less because now he's learned how to climb it.
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But it's actually very cute.
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He always tries to burrow in the tube and
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we're like, no, buddy, it's.
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Leah: Made out of plastic, bless him.
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He keeps trying to make more tubes anyway.
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So, Abram, which one is your favorite pet and
why?
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Nibbles, tell me why.
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Avrum: I think the mic is a bit too close to
my face.
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Leah: Sorry.
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Tell me what?
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Avrum: He was the first one that I held, and
he is actually very cooperative, except for
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the time that he tries to escape when he goes
behind my neck.
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Leah: He likes you very much, doesn't he?
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Avrum: Yes.
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Leah: He'll climb up your shoulders and give
your face kisses, doesn't he?
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Avrum: Yes.
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Leah: Raya, which one is your favorite pet and
why?
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Raya: Personally, I really like colonel
because he's really adorable and he's really
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like friendly and adventurous, and he likes
exploring a lot.
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And whenever I hold them, he's like, very nice
to me.
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Leah: Moshe's just gonna burst.
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Which one is your favorite pet and why?
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Moshe: I like them all.
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I think that small animals are wonderful
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animals to have.
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I've studied all of them extensively.
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I love gerbils.
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Leah and I actually had gerbils as children.
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Leah: Yes, it was very nostalgic.
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He handed me a box full of gerbils with a big
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smile on his face, and suddenly it was 1991
again.
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Moshe: Yes. I told her it was the last time
she held a box full of gerbils.
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We were horrifying your mother with them.
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Leah: I think we still are.
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The kids called her all the way in North
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America, and she's still pretty horrified, I
think.
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Moshe: But it's just very exciting.
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Mice and gerbils are amazing pets just in
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their own right.
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They're both very different, even though
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they're both rodents.
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Mice are much more skittish, but also they're,
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you know, different in personality.
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Gerbils are very playful and adventurous, but
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maybe a little bit more friendly.
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They're all amazing.
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Much better than hamsters.
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Leah: If I. Well, I mean, don't.
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There are some die hard hamster people don't
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hate.
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Moshe: Hamsters are wonderful.
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But one of the things that I always said was
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that hamsters are not necessarily, I mean,
they're fine.
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Hamsters are fine.
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Leah: But I mean, I liked them.
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But again, males, males, males, males, females
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are very bitey.
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Moshe: The thing is, hamsters are not
necessarily a great first pet for children
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because they can be very bitey.
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Leah: They take a long time to hamstring.
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Moshe: They do sleep quite a lot during the
day, unless you train them not to.
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00:10:50,258 --> 00:10:55,892
And they're just, they're very solitary and I
feel like, and we're going to get into it in a
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second.
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00:10:56,492 --> 00:10:59,716
But watching a multitude of animals, at least
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more than one, sort of cooperate and get along
and play and have fun makes it kind of fun.
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00:11:06,556 --> 00:11:11,676
And hamsters are actually, by nature, one of
the few rodents that do better when they're
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00:11:11,708 --> 00:11:12,364
alone.
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00:11:12,532 --> 00:11:16,084
And it's less fun to just watch one hamster
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00:11:16,132 --> 00:11:20,364
sleep all day than to watch the gerbils run up
and down the tubes and stuff.
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Leah: I think that Avram wanted to talk about
the time that he had a hamster once.
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00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:32,952
Avrum: Yes, I was actually, like, melting it
to you, but we used to have a female hamster
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00:11:33,016 --> 00:11:34,312
named Pikachu.
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00:11:34,496 --> 00:11:37,216
Ryan, do you want to also talk about this with
244
00:11:37,248 --> 00:11:37,800
me?
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00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:38,860
Moshe: I could.
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00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,072
Raya: So, yeah, we had.
247
00:11:41,216 --> 00:11:44,080
When we were littler, we had a female hamster
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00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,952
named Pikachu because, I don't know, I really
wanted a hamster when.
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00:11:47,976 --> 00:11:50,100
Leah: I was little, but she thought she did.
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00:11:50,590 --> 00:11:55,886
Raya: Yeah, I got freaked out by its little
hands, but it's fine.
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00:11:56,038 --> 00:12:01,902
Leah: So this time what we did was that Abba
trained you to train the gerbils because we
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00:12:01,926 --> 00:12:03,806
told you that they're going to have little
hands.
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00:12:03,838 --> 00:12:08,046
They're not just a puff of fur, and then
you're able to actually touch them.
254
00:12:08,198 --> 00:12:10,686
So, Abram, how has life changed since having
them?
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00:12:10,718 --> 00:12:14,182
I should point out we've only really had these
pets for maybe a week, a week and a half.
256
00:12:14,326 --> 00:12:16,700
How has life changed since having them?
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00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:19,904
Avrum: Actually, to correct you, it was five
days or four days.
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00:12:19,952 --> 00:12:21,216
I've been counting.
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00:12:21,408 --> 00:12:22,816
Leah: Thank you, Mister Litterl.
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00:12:22,928 --> 00:12:28,512
Moshe: Yes. Check our previous episode to
learn more about the autistic need to be
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00:12:28,536 --> 00:12:29,100
right.
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00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:30,900
Leah: Absolutely.
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00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:35,656
Avrum: It feels like you just turned into a
commercial, man, right there.
264
00:12:35,728 --> 00:12:37,488
Moshe: Oh, you haven't heard anything yet.
265
00:12:37,584 --> 00:12:39,420
We're going to get to the commercial soon.
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00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:40,440
Keep going.
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00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,400
Leah: So tell me, how has life changed since
we've had them for four or five, three, seven
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00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:46,940
or 27 days?
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00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:55,136
Avrum: What do you mean 27?
Anyways, it's changed from a little bit.
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00:12:55,248 --> 00:12:55,900
Leah: It.
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00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,888
Avrum: The little bit that has changed has
been changing my favorite part of the day from
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00:13:01,944 --> 00:13:05,976
being, sorry, it went too close to the mic,
maybe.
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00:13:06,048 --> 00:13:07,020
I'm not sure.
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00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:14,170
Leah: And so just to remind you, you were
saying your favorite part of the day has
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00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:15,070
changed too.
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00:13:16,490 --> 00:13:24,530
Avrum: Free time to rodent time, which is when
we play with all of the rodents and pick them
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00:13:24,570 --> 00:13:24,986
up.
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00:13:25,098 --> 00:13:28,706
And that's the part what I was talking about
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00:13:28,818 --> 00:13:32,306
when he would try to escape by going behind my
neck.
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00:13:32,498 --> 00:13:34,770
Leah: Yeah, I understand that, but isn't that
really cool?
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00:13:34,810 --> 00:13:35,386
We're.
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00:13:35,538 --> 00:13:37,526
Abba and I are going to talk about this later.
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00:13:37,598 --> 00:13:41,670
Actually, isn't it really cool that you get to
spend extra time with Abba doing something
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00:13:41,710 --> 00:13:42,702
that you're all interested in.
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00:13:42,726 --> 00:13:45,166
Now, sometimes mommy does rodent time, and
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00:13:45,198 --> 00:13:46,646
sometimes mommy doesn't do rodent time.
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00:13:46,678 --> 00:13:49,478
If the three of you always do, how's life
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00:13:49,534 --> 00:13:54,030
changed for you since having the mariah for
the past 3457 or 28 days?
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00:13:54,110 --> 00:13:56,326
Raya: Well, I don't think it was 28 days.
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00:13:56,478 --> 00:13:59,230
I don't know, but it hasn't.
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00:13:59,350 --> 00:14:00,926
It hasn't changed.
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00:14:01,118 --> 00:14:03,250
It hasn't changed so much.
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00:14:03,650 --> 00:14:09,418
But I do think it has changed a little bit,
because, I mean, now, sometimes they get.
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00:14:09,474 --> 00:14:13,490
It's really adorable because sometimes they
argue with each other.
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00:14:13,530 --> 00:14:16,666
The gerbils, if they're both in the tube, they
do.
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00:14:16,698 --> 00:14:18,722
Leah: They make the cutest little squeaks,
don't they?
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00:14:18,786 --> 00:14:19,618
They yell at each other.
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00:14:19,634 --> 00:14:20,426
It's very funny.
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00:14:20,498 --> 00:14:20,866
Raya: They do.
300
00:14:20,898 --> 00:14:21,898
It's very funny.
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00:14:21,994 --> 00:14:24,834
Eventually, they sort it out, kind of like me
and Avram.
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00:14:24,962 --> 00:14:27,522
But it hasn't changed that much.
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00:14:27,706 --> 00:14:29,410
I mean, obviously, we have.
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00:14:29,450 --> 00:14:35,794
We like the whole living creatures in our
living room now, and we have to, like, take
305
00:14:35,842 --> 00:14:39,298
care of them, but I don't really think it's
changed that much.
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00:14:39,434 --> 00:14:43,830
Leah: Okay, so I'm gonna ask you, Evram, how
is life the same since having pets?
307
00:14:44,170 --> 00:14:46,870
Avrum: Literally everything except for rodent
time.
308
00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:48,370
Leah: I guess that makes sense.
309
00:14:48,410 --> 00:14:51,426
But what if the pets are hungry or run out of
310
00:14:51,458 --> 00:14:55,090
water or need attention and one of us isn't
there to do it?
311
00:14:55,130 --> 00:14:56,262
What would you have to do?
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00:14:56,426 --> 00:14:58,814
Avrum: Actually, that makes me think.
313
00:14:58,862 --> 00:15:03,662
I'm gonna go check if either nibbles or the
314
00:15:03,766 --> 00:15:05,330
germ bolts are out of.
315
00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:09,502
Leah: Okay. Priya, how's life the same since
having pets?
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00:15:09,526 --> 00:15:10,510
We've lost aver.
317
00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:13,010
Raya: Well, it's mostly the same.
318
00:15:13,510 --> 00:15:16,646
It's almostly the same, except, I mean, of
319
00:15:16,678 --> 00:15:22,462
course, the fact that we have to feed them and
take care of them, but I think it's mostly the
320
00:15:22,486 --> 00:15:23,050
same.
321
00:15:23,460 --> 00:15:27,440
Leah: What do you like about having them,
Avraham rodentine?
322
00:15:27,740 --> 00:15:31,252
What else?
Like, okay, so instead of what else, let me
323
00:15:31,276 --> 00:15:32,884
ask you this more specific question.
324
00:15:33,012 --> 00:15:35,684
What about rodent time makes you feel good?
325
00:15:35,732 --> 00:15:37,652
What do you like about rodent time?
326
00:15:37,836 --> 00:15:40,388
Avrum: Just being able to love pets.
327
00:15:40,484 --> 00:15:44,236
Because it's been a while, like a year or two
328
00:15:44,348 --> 00:15:45,468
since I actually.
329
00:15:45,524 --> 00:15:45,732
Moshe: Wait.
330
00:15:45,756 --> 00:15:51,290
Avrum: No, no. It's been like eight months
since I had a pet, not including death.
331
00:15:51,630 --> 00:15:55,490
Leah: So just being able to live on some pets,
that makes sense.
332
00:15:56,270 --> 00:15:58,290
And, Raya, what do you like about having.
333
00:15:58,670 --> 00:16:07,366
Raya: Well, I really like that I have other
living being in my space, like new living
334
00:16:07,438 --> 00:16:08,250
beings.
335
00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:10,630
Of course I have living beings.
336
00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:13,086
I have you, and I have a bee, and I have
Abram.
337
00:16:13,118 --> 00:16:17,030
But, like, new ones, and they're really good
to, like.
338
00:16:17,730 --> 00:16:18,290
Yeah.
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00:16:18,370 --> 00:16:23,450
Leah: Love. What do you hope for the future?
So, picking your favorite pet.
340
00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:25,910
What do you hope to be able to do with them in
the future?
341
00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:29,550
Avrum: Maybe, like, let them on the floor.
342
00:16:30,250 --> 00:16:32,930
It's annoying.
343
00:16:32,970 --> 00:16:39,586
Cause, like, he's either always trying to run
away and I need to keep correcting him by
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00:16:39,618 --> 00:16:49,568
putting my hand in front of him, or he is just
relaxing and until he catches me off guard and
345
00:16:49,584 --> 00:16:51,032
then tries to run away.
346
00:16:51,216 --> 00:16:53,744
Leah: So what you're saying is you would like
to have him really well trained?
347
00:16:53,792 --> 00:16:57,536
It is possible with my sister's heart, you'd
like to have him really well trained, that he
348
00:16:57,568 --> 00:16:58,528
stays with you.
349
00:16:58,664 --> 00:17:02,976
Avrum: Not really well, but, like, I can trust
him.
350
00:17:03,168 --> 00:17:07,490
Not that he would do it all the time, but that
I can trust him.
351
00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:10,206
Leah: That is a really cool thing to say, I
think.
352
00:17:10,238 --> 00:17:15,374
Avram, now, what do you hope for?
Your favorite animal for the future.
353
00:17:15,422 --> 00:17:16,894
What do you hope to do with him?
354
00:17:17,062 --> 00:17:20,094
Raya: Well, I think basically the same as
Avram.
355
00:17:20,262 --> 00:17:28,090
I would love for one of the gerbils to be able
to kind of just, like, hang out with me
356
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:29,454
wherever.
357
00:17:29,542 --> 00:17:30,966
Leah: Like, in your room.
358
00:17:31,078 --> 00:17:31,486
Moshe: I don't.
359
00:17:31,518 --> 00:17:32,718
Raya: Well, maybe not in my room.
360
00:17:32,774 --> 00:17:34,950
I don't think I would trust them in my room.
361
00:17:35,070 --> 00:17:38,250
I don't think I would trust myself with them
in my room, to be honest.
362
00:17:38,550 --> 00:17:44,006
But I would kind of just be able to, like,
hang out with them or maybe eventually be able
363
00:17:44,038 --> 00:17:46,130
to, like, take them out of the cage myself.
364
00:17:46,430 --> 00:17:48,930
Leah: That. That's a really good thing to aim
toward.
365
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:50,190
Avram.
366
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:53,086
And then, Raya, what is your ideal pet?
367
00:17:53,158 --> 00:17:55,190
So any pet in the entire world that you could
have?
368
00:17:55,230 --> 00:17:56,414
It has to be a real one.
369
00:17:56,462 --> 00:17:58,490
It can't be like a unicorn or anything.
370
00:17:59,310 --> 00:17:59,718
What.
371
00:17:59,774 --> 00:18:01,010
What would you have?
372
00:18:01,390 --> 00:18:05,374
Avrum: A chinchilla?
Or what was the other one that was pointing?
373
00:18:05,422 --> 00:18:08,050
I had it in my brain as I just lost it.
374
00:18:08,670 --> 00:18:10,130
Leah: A chinchilla or.
375
00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:11,822
I forgot.
376
00:18:12,006 --> 00:18:13,078
You forgot.
377
00:18:13,214 --> 00:18:14,158
That's okay.
378
00:18:14,294 --> 00:18:15,930
So why a chinchilla, though?
379
00:18:17,310 --> 00:18:23,542
Avrum: Chinchillas are cute, and most of the
time, when I see them, I think they're pretty
380
00:18:23,686 --> 00:18:24,370
fun.
381
00:18:24,670 --> 00:18:26,108
Leah: They are pretty fun.
382
00:18:26,294 --> 00:18:27,776
Now. Same question for Uriah.
383
00:18:27,808 --> 00:18:29,368
What's your ideal pet for the future?
384
00:18:29,504 --> 00:18:31,620
Raya: I have been waiting for this question.
385
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:36,272
I definitely think that a bearded dragon would
386
00:18:36,296 --> 00:18:37,500
be so cool.
387
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,008
It would take a lot of, like, things because.
388
00:18:40,104 --> 00:18:46,944
And money, because I would need, like, a light
and, like, a cage for it, like, a tank without
389
00:18:46,992 --> 00:18:47,384
the water.
390
00:18:47,432 --> 00:18:47,816
Of course.
391
00:18:47,848 --> 00:18:48,520
It's not a fish.
392
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:49,696
It's bearded dragon.
393
00:18:49,808 --> 00:18:51,768
But I think that would be so cool.
394
00:18:51,824 --> 00:18:54,102
I've wanted one since I was like littler.
395
00:18:54,256 --> 00:18:54,954
Not so.
396
00:18:55,042 --> 00:18:56,990
Not so little, but like littler.
397
00:18:57,330 --> 00:18:59,154
And I think that would be so cool.
398
00:18:59,202 --> 00:19:00,194
And they're very sweet.
399
00:19:00,242 --> 00:19:02,010
They sometimes crawl on your arm.
400
00:19:02,050 --> 00:19:05,474
They crawl up your arm and they're very sweet.
401
00:19:05,642 --> 00:19:07,962
Leah: Welcome to ADHD info dumping.
402
00:19:08,146 --> 00:19:08,882
Raya: Sorry.
403
00:19:09,026 --> 00:19:10,058
Leah: It's okay.
404
00:19:10,234 --> 00:19:12,322
So I am gonna tell you that when we're at the
405
00:19:12,346 --> 00:19:14,946
pet shop, Abbo is looking at a bearded dragon
for you.
406
00:19:14,978 --> 00:19:20,308
But she was really expensive, like with all
the stuff, so we didn't get you one.
407
00:19:20,474 --> 00:19:24,608
Raya: Well, maybe eventually I can get myself
one.
408
00:19:24,784 --> 00:19:27,328
Avrum: I still hear the mouse in the walls.
409
00:19:27,504 --> 00:19:28,540
Leah: Good for you.
410
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,260
Alright, kids, so that's your segment.
411
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,432
You can choose to stay for the more adult
stuff or you can go off and do whatever you
412
00:19:36,456 --> 00:19:37,020
want.
413
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:47,298
Moshe: So now Raya and Avram have gone off to
play, and we really are happy to have them on
414
00:19:47,314 --> 00:19:47,770
the show.
415
00:19:47,850 --> 00:19:50,350
And it was a lot of fun.
416
00:19:50,970 --> 00:19:58,866
So let's continue discussing the rest of what
we're discussing, because there's a lot more
417
00:19:58,898 --> 00:20:04,962
to talk about when it comes to the effect of
animals and pets.
418
00:20:05,026 --> 00:20:09,106
Leah: Yeah, that was a lot of fun on
autistics, and I was super happy to have them,
419
00:20:09,138 --> 00:20:11,818
but there's kind of a built in time limit,
especially with.
420
00:20:11,834 --> 00:20:12,866
Moshe: Autism, especially with children.
421
00:20:12,978 --> 00:20:17,818
Leah: Yeah. And, you know, we're going to sort
of discuss more of the serious side of things,
422
00:20:17,874 --> 00:20:18,306
so.
423
00:20:18,418 --> 00:20:19,050
Moshe: For sure.
424
00:20:19,170 --> 00:20:21,762
Now, speaking of time limits, running a
425
00:20:21,786 --> 00:20:27,034
podcast can be a bit challenging, but it's
something that Leah and I really do enjoy
426
00:20:27,082 --> 00:20:27,650
doing.
427
00:20:27,810 --> 00:20:30,426
And that's why I would ask that all of you
428
00:20:30,498 --> 00:20:38,658
subscribe, like comment, download and listen
to this episode and all previous episodes and
429
00:20:38,674 --> 00:20:40,022
all future episodes.
430
00:20:40,186 --> 00:20:43,894
We have a number of things that are available
431
00:20:43,982 --> 00:20:47,410
for you to do to show your support for this
podcast.
432
00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:49,918
And most of them are actually non monetary.
433
00:20:50,014 --> 00:20:55,070
We do have a Patreon at Patreon 901 autistic.
434
00:20:55,230 --> 00:21:04,742
However, by subscribing and liking the podcast
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify podcasts, whatever
435
00:21:04,846 --> 00:21:11,522
podcasting sites you're listening to this on,
you have the ability to boost where it shows
436
00:21:11,546 --> 00:21:14,042
up in the ratings, which will allow more
people to come.
437
00:21:14,146 --> 00:21:21,634
If you have friends, family, coworkers,
enemies, whoever, share these podcasts on this
438
00:21:21,682 --> 00:21:24,658
episode with them and encourage them to share.
439
00:21:24,834 --> 00:21:29,266
Leah: Essentially, the most important things
you can do to help a podcast are non monetary.
440
00:21:29,418 --> 00:21:36,324
So Patreon aside and like share, download,
listen, rate, even message us.
441
00:21:36,452 --> 00:21:36,996
Moshe: Absolutely.
442
00:21:37,028 --> 00:21:37,684
We have an email.
443
00:21:37,772 --> 00:21:40,160
Contact us@nowyourknowithautistic.com.
444
00:21:40,660 --> 00:21:45,564
and of course, if you do want to help us out
445
00:21:45,612 --> 00:21:51,092
monetarily, we do have some really interesting
Patreon programs we'll call you out in future
446
00:21:51,156 --> 00:21:51,668
episodes.
447
00:21:51,724 --> 00:21:53,732
You can appear as a guest and talk about your
448
00:21:53,756 --> 00:21:55,212
own special interests.
449
00:21:55,396 --> 00:21:56,800
We can talk.
450
00:21:57,540 --> 00:22:01,172
They're all listed on the Patreon site for
this podcast.
451
00:22:01,316 --> 00:22:08,116
And of course, it would really help us to
continue to talking about this interesting
452
00:22:08,188 --> 00:22:08,956
material.
453
00:22:09,108 --> 00:22:12,980
We also do plan at some point on posting some
454
00:22:13,020 --> 00:22:18,756
stuff to the Apple podcast subscription site
because we did sign up for that and we haven't
455
00:22:18,788 --> 00:22:19,732
been very good about it.
456
00:22:19,756 --> 00:22:21,880
But we're definitely working on a few things
457
00:22:22,420 --> 00:22:29,820
that are unique to Apple podcasts and also a
few things that might be unique to Patreon.
458
00:22:29,940 --> 00:22:32,820
So, like subscribe, download, listen.
459
00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:34,804
Everything that you do helps us.
460
00:22:34,932 --> 00:22:39,148
And of course, if you want to give us
anything, whether it's small or big, you can
461
00:22:39,164 --> 00:22:41,188
go to our Patreon on the website.
462
00:22:41,244 --> 00:22:43,172
There's actually a link on the top of our
463
00:22:43,196 --> 00:22:48,364
homepage at nowyouknowenautistic dot
podbean.com that'll take you right to the
464
00:22:48,412 --> 00:22:53,924
Patreon site, which will allow you to donate
whatever you, you want to do.
465
00:22:54,092 --> 00:22:55,640
So now back to our program.
466
00:22:55,940 --> 00:22:57,644
Leah: So, Colonel looking at me.
467
00:22:57,772 --> 00:22:58,244
Moshe: Yes.
468
00:22:58,332 --> 00:23:03,164
Leah: Yeah. Yes. So he's interested in what
we're talking about as well.
469
00:23:03,292 --> 00:23:07,508
So the real meat, I mean, the kids were a fun
thing because we just got them pets, and
470
00:23:07,524 --> 00:23:08,260
they're very excited.
471
00:23:08,340 --> 00:23:09,732
Moshe: They're very excited to talk about, of.
472
00:23:09,756 --> 00:23:13,876
Leah: Course they want to talk about them, but
the actual meat of the episode, 25 minutes in,
473
00:23:13,988 --> 00:23:19,420
as we usually do, is about the benefits of
pets for autistics, other neurodivergents, and
474
00:23:19,460 --> 00:23:21,540
sometimes even neurotypical people.
475
00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:24,164
For sure, there are, there's some overlap.
476
00:23:24,212 --> 00:23:29,572
So we want to talk about the benefits to
children specifically, but also benefits to
477
00:23:29,596 --> 00:23:30,276
adults.
478
00:23:30,388 --> 00:23:32,276
And they do overlap and they do differ.
479
00:23:32,348 --> 00:23:36,788
So that's going to be, I think, on you to help
me with that.
480
00:23:36,884 --> 00:23:37,820
Moshe: Definitely.
481
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:41,400
Leah: So the first benefit that I saw was
reducing stress.
482
00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:47,556
So handling a warm, fluffy thing
scientifically has been shown to lower your
483
00:23:47,588 --> 00:23:53,766
heart rate, lower your breathing rate, just
literally, physically de stress your body.
484
00:23:53,878 --> 00:23:54,750
Moshe: Absolutely.
485
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:57,430
Now, if you go to places that are known for
486
00:23:57,470 --> 00:24:02,038
being somewhat stressful, like schools and of
course, dentists offices, you'll often see a
487
00:24:02,054 --> 00:24:07,774
fish tank, because fish do have an effect at
lowering stress and inducing a sense of calm,
488
00:24:07,822 --> 00:24:09,710
watching little fishies swimming around.
489
00:24:09,870 --> 00:24:11,982
But they've actually done studies that show
490
00:24:12,046 --> 00:24:18,430
that you get much more of that reduction of
the stress effect and anxiety from handling.
491
00:24:18,730 --> 00:24:20,234
It's typically mammals.
492
00:24:20,282 --> 00:24:22,442
I know a lot of people, they absolutely love
493
00:24:22,466 --> 00:24:25,522
their snake or their parrot or whatever, and
that's wonderful.
494
00:24:25,666 --> 00:24:29,218
But the studies are typically done on warm
blooded mammals.
495
00:24:29,274 --> 00:24:35,090
So everything from, of course, you know, dogs
and cats right down to the gerbils, mice,
496
00:24:35,170 --> 00:24:37,922
rats, hamsters, chinchillas.
497
00:24:38,066 --> 00:24:41,422
As Avraham mentioned, anything small and
498
00:24:41,446 --> 00:24:46,302
fuzzy, just the act of holding them and
petting them induces a sense of calm, doesn't
499
00:24:46,326 --> 00:24:46,582
it?
500
00:24:46,646 --> 00:24:47,046
Leah: It does.
501
00:24:47,078 --> 00:24:47,398
Whatever.
502
00:24:47,454 --> 00:24:48,590
Really stupid question.
503
00:24:48,750 --> 00:24:50,686
I understand why fish tanks at doctor's
504
00:24:50,718 --> 00:24:54,530
offices and dentists, but why is there always
a fish tank at chinese restaurants?
505
00:24:58,030 --> 00:24:59,590
Moshe: I think it's more for ambiance.
506
00:24:59,630 --> 00:25:02,614
And also sometimes you want to sort of look at
507
00:25:02,662 --> 00:25:05,062
the fish tank and go, you know what?
We should have seafood tonight.
508
00:25:05,086 --> 00:25:05,414
I think.
509
00:25:05,462 --> 00:25:06,350
Leah: Honey, I love you.
510
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:07,774
And I love mom so much.
511
00:25:07,822 --> 00:25:08,530
Your mom.
512
00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:10,594
But going to a chinese restaurant with her was
513
00:25:10,642 --> 00:25:12,426
definitely stress inducing.
514
00:25:12,618 --> 00:25:13,466
Moshe: It was.
515
00:25:13,618 --> 00:25:16,394
She was very much about, you know, by the time
516
00:25:16,442 --> 00:25:16,674
she.
517
00:25:16,722 --> 00:25:19,442
When she sits down, she wants the order to be
518
00:25:19,466 --> 00:25:20,058
taken.
519
00:25:20,234 --> 00:25:22,602
And once they take the menus away, she wants
520
00:25:22,626 --> 00:25:26,082
the order to be, you know, in front of her in
five minutes, or someone's going to hear
521
00:25:26,106 --> 00:25:26,218
about.
522
00:25:26,234 --> 00:25:27,778
Leah: It and screaming, no msg.
523
00:25:27,834 --> 00:25:28,402
Remember that?
524
00:25:28,466 --> 00:25:29,210
Moshe: No msg.
525
00:25:29,290 --> 00:25:30,082
Leah: No msg.
526
00:25:30,186 --> 00:25:31,018
Moshe: I don't know.
527
00:25:31,074 --> 00:25:32,910
Leah: I think he put extra msg.
528
00:25:34,090 --> 00:25:35,210
Moshe: I don't know that.
529
00:25:35,290 --> 00:25:38,090
That chinese restaurants have regularly put
530
00:25:38,130 --> 00:25:41,218
MSG on food in a long time.
531
00:25:41,394 --> 00:25:43,746
Not to say that they shouldn't.
532
00:25:43,778 --> 00:25:47,002
It's definitely very flavorful, but no msg.
533
00:25:47,106 --> 00:25:48,202
No msg.
534
00:25:48,386 --> 00:25:49,510
No msg.
535
00:25:49,810 --> 00:25:52,530
And I'll be 100% honest with you, I didn't
536
00:25:52,570 --> 00:25:54,634
know what msg was until I was in my twenties.
537
00:25:54,682 --> 00:25:56,522
Leah: He totally put extra MSG.
538
00:25:56,586 --> 00:25:58,314
And honestly, the MSG is not bad for you.
539
00:25:58,322 --> 00:25:58,962
But we.
540
00:25:59,106 --> 00:26:00,274
Anyway, write to us if you want.
541
00:26:00,282 --> 00:26:03,192
Moshe: To hear more, have, like, a sensitivity
around.
542
00:26:03,296 --> 00:26:06,928
Leah: But. But I do think that the fish tanks
helped us run away from your mother when we
543
00:26:06,944 --> 00:26:08,936
went to chinese restaurant back in Montreal.
544
00:26:09,008 --> 00:26:09,824
Moshe: And I know, I think.
545
00:26:09,872 --> 00:26:11,632
Didn't we go to a restaurant where there was
546
00:26:11,696 --> 00:26:12,016
like.
547
00:26:12,088 --> 00:26:13,656
Like a fountain with, like.
548
00:26:13,768 --> 00:26:15,360
Like goldfish or whatever?
549
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,256
Leah: That was Picasso.
550
00:26:16,288 --> 00:26:17,440
That was a breakfast restaurant.
551
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,976
Moshe: Yeah. But we did go there, and we used
to, like, put our fingers in the.
552
00:26:21,048 --> 00:26:22,616
Leah: And they used to yell at us.
553
00:26:22,808 --> 00:26:24,528
Yeah, I remember we used to throw money in
554
00:26:24,544 --> 00:26:24,864
there.
555
00:26:24,952 --> 00:26:26,792
Moshe: Yeah. Like, people.
556
00:26:26,856 --> 00:26:29,328
People see, like, a fountain or water and they
557
00:26:29,344 --> 00:26:30,416
want to throw coins.
558
00:26:30,568 --> 00:26:32,768
The poor fish, they're like, I don't know why
559
00:26:32,864 --> 00:26:35,992
you're throwing things into my home anyway.
560
00:26:36,136 --> 00:26:41,176
Leah: Yeah. So the next thing that I saw,
that's actually really interesting study is
561
00:26:41,208 --> 00:26:46,408
that especially autistic children who
sometimes have issues with bonding, having a
562
00:26:46,424 --> 00:26:49,500
family pet can encourage a stronger bond with
their parent.
563
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,220
Moshe: That's really interesting.
564
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,640
I do know, in general, that having an animal,
565
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,260
especially for autistic children, can help
with teaching them empathy.
566
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:07,760
Because if you are autistic, a lot of the time
you struggle with, as you call, theory of
567
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:08,380
mind.
568
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:14,056
And when you are so internally focused, you
569
00:27:14,088 --> 00:27:19,824
sometimes have difficulty exploring the
feelings of others.
570
00:27:19,872 --> 00:27:25,126
And when you have this helpless little mouse,
we have pictures, actually, I have pictures of
571
00:27:25,198 --> 00:27:30,518
Avram that I'll post on the site of him just
playing with this little, tiny mouse.
572
00:27:30,694 --> 00:27:36,814
And we talk to him about how the mouse feels
and to keep the mouse, and you wouldn't want
573
00:27:36,822 --> 00:27:39,422
to lose the mouse, and you don't want to make
the mouse upset.
574
00:27:39,446 --> 00:27:41,750
So you have to be very quiet when you're
around the mouse.
575
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:49,310
So it teaches him to be more respectful and
more aware of what he's doing and how he's
576
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:49,988
acting.
577
00:27:50,134 --> 00:27:52,720
Leah: And he evolved unbelievably well and
quickly.
578
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,544
The first time he held the mouse, he was
screeching because it was tickling him and he
579
00:27:56,552 --> 00:27:57,376
was scaring the mouse.
580
00:27:57,408 --> 00:27:58,680
And then it was getting away from him every
581
00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:59,440
five minutes.
582
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,216
But by the next day, he really.
583
00:28:01,288 --> 00:28:02,472
He had a handle on the mouse.
584
00:28:02,496 --> 00:28:03,824
You could hear him talking about it.
585
00:28:03,912 --> 00:28:04,888
Moshe: Yes, absolutely.
586
00:28:04,984 --> 00:28:08,024
Leah: And I do find it's a thing for you and
he to have in common.
587
00:28:08,072 --> 00:28:11,992
So I do think that it is increasing your
bonding potential because it gives.
588
00:28:12,016 --> 00:28:12,920
Moshe: You something to do.
589
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,456
Unfortunately, I don't know if it's a
590
00:28:15,528 --> 00:28:20,194
consequence of the modern society that we live
in, despite the fact that we happen to live in
591
00:28:20,202 --> 00:28:26,178
one of the oldest countries in the world, but
we're unfortunately, in a lot of places
592
00:28:26,234 --> 00:28:34,770
getting away from the family times that they
had in our child days and in our parents days,
593
00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:38,610
where families spend time together, maybe
listening to the radio or possibly even
594
00:28:38,650 --> 00:28:39,882
watching tv later on.
595
00:28:39,986 --> 00:28:41,906
But now there's so many screens and so much
596
00:28:41,938 --> 00:28:43,710
tvs and so many video games.
597
00:28:44,090 --> 00:28:49,466
And to be able to go to him as his parent or
598
00:28:49,498 --> 00:28:55,082
as parents to him when you're involved and be
like, okay, it's time to hold the mouse.
599
00:28:55,226 --> 00:28:56,762
It's something that we can do together.
600
00:28:56,866 --> 00:28:59,082
And he can go to school when school's back in
601
00:28:59,106 --> 00:29:00,190
session and go.
602
00:29:00,650 --> 00:29:03,850
My father and I, we spend time over the summer
603
00:29:03,890 --> 00:29:08,738
playing with our pets, and it develops a sense
of trust because we'll be sitting on the bus
604
00:29:08,794 --> 00:29:13,012
and we'll be like, remember that funny thing
that the mouse did when we were playing with
605
00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:17,492
it?
So it creates that connection that you have,
606
00:29:17,676 --> 00:29:24,060
because like it or not, a child, any child,
neurotypical or neurodivergent, that watches
607
00:29:24,100 --> 00:29:27,480
their parent show love for another living
thing.
608
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:34,076
It can project that amount of love
unconsciously, even in the child, and go.
609
00:29:34,188 --> 00:29:41,898
It makes them feel good to watch their parents
loving something else, potentially.
610
00:29:42,074 --> 00:29:45,858
Leah: I mean, our kids pretend that they're
disgusted when we hug and kiss each other, but
611
00:29:45,874 --> 00:29:46,258
they love it.
612
00:29:46,274 --> 00:29:47,562
It makes them feel secure.
613
00:29:47,706 --> 00:29:50,250
Moshe: Right. And I mean, absolutely.
614
00:29:50,410 --> 00:29:54,826
We can talk all day about the positive impact
615
00:29:54,898 --> 00:29:56,550
of showing.
616
00:29:57,650 --> 00:29:58,770
What's the word I'm looking for?
617
00:29:58,810 --> 00:29:59,282
PDA.
618
00:29:59,346 --> 00:30:01,786
Public displays of affection in front of your
619
00:30:01,818 --> 00:30:02,390
children.
620
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,528
This is not a podcast on child rearing or
621
00:30:05,544 --> 00:30:12,352
developmental psychology, but especially when
it comes to autistic children, watching your
622
00:30:12,416 --> 00:30:18,592
parents love each other can mirror that amount
of love that they show.
623
00:30:18,656 --> 00:30:22,540
I saw mom and dad hugging, so I want to hug
mom and dad.
624
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,288
Getting a bit off topic, but that's definitely
something worth discussing.
625
00:30:26,344 --> 00:30:27,320
Leah: Absolutely.
626
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,154
So the next thing I saw was relieved anxiety.
627
00:30:30,352 --> 00:30:30,926
Moshe: Right?
628
00:30:31,038 --> 00:30:34,358
Leah: I mean, they're approximately the same
thing, but there are subtle differences.
629
00:30:34,454 --> 00:30:34,974
Moshe: A little bit.
630
00:30:35,022 --> 00:30:38,590
Leah: Reducing stress is one thing, but
relieving anxiety is like, you're anxious
631
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:38,830
already.
632
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:39,430
You're up there.
633
00:30:39,470 --> 00:30:41,670
You're not just stressed, you're like, whoo,
you're.
634
00:30:41,710 --> 00:30:42,678
You're gone.
635
00:30:42,854 --> 00:30:45,046
And it can relieve anxiety by increasing
636
00:30:45,118 --> 00:30:50,366
emotional regulation, because especially when
you're holding a small little thing, you have
637
00:30:50,398 --> 00:30:51,374
to be calm.
638
00:30:51,502 --> 00:30:54,166
In order for them to be calm, you have to take
639
00:30:54,198 --> 00:30:54,886
care of them.
640
00:30:54,998 --> 00:30:57,266
So it's kind of easy to forget about the
641
00:30:57,298 --> 00:30:59,810
things that are bothering you, right?
642
00:30:59,890 --> 00:31:00,514
Moshe: Exactly.
643
00:31:00,602 --> 00:31:05,470
Leah: And it can also teach empathy, reason
being, nonverbal communication.
644
00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:11,738
So animals, they don't have speech, so you
have to learn their looks and their body
645
00:31:11,794 --> 00:31:13,698
language and their needs.
646
00:31:13,874 --> 00:31:16,282
Moshe and I, yesterday, we discovered that the
647
00:31:16,306 --> 00:31:18,226
mouse didn't have a working water bottle.
648
00:31:18,258 --> 00:31:20,610
By watching his body language, he didn't say,
649
00:31:20,650 --> 00:31:22,584
hey, I'm thirsty.
650
00:31:22,762 --> 00:31:25,788
But that was a thing that we had to see.
651
00:31:25,964 --> 00:31:33,556
And that is a good thing for especially
autistics to learn because they struggle with
652
00:31:33,708 --> 00:31:35,388
nonverbal body language.
653
00:31:35,564 --> 00:31:37,236
Moshe: Sometimes they do.
654
00:31:37,428 --> 00:31:40,780
And last week, Leah and I discussed coping
655
00:31:40,820 --> 00:31:43,600
mechanisms when it comes to things like
anxiety.
656
00:31:43,980 --> 00:31:51,628
And this is a really good segue into this
week's episode because we talked, I think,
657
00:31:51,684 --> 00:31:53,556
close to the end of last week's episode.
658
00:31:53,588 --> 00:31:55,188
You can go back and listen to it, although you
659
00:31:55,204 --> 00:31:56,836
should anyway, because it's a great episode.
660
00:31:56,868 --> 00:31:57,964
One of my favorites.
661
00:31:58,092 --> 00:32:02,116
Of course, I say that about every episode,
about one of the things, one of the healthy
662
00:32:02,148 --> 00:32:06,740
ways, because we talked about some unhealthy
ways, but one of the healthy ways that you can
663
00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:13,644
deal with anxiety or problems that come from
stress and whatever.
664
00:32:13,812 --> 00:32:15,210
Bye.
665
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,930
Refocusing your attention.
666
00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:22,550
And one of the things that you refocus is by
diverting.
667
00:32:22,670 --> 00:32:28,046
So if you have, we're going to talk about this
a little bit, but if you have a child that is
668
00:32:28,078 --> 00:32:34,782
very anxious or even an autistic child that's
in the middle of a meltdown, you can take out
669
00:32:34,806 --> 00:32:38,062
the mouse and go, hey, look at, look at
nibbles.
670
00:32:38,166 --> 00:32:38,606
Nibbles.
671
00:32:38,638 --> 00:32:39,030
Funny.
672
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:40,570
Leah: You're upsetting nibbles.
673
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:44,190
Moshe: And it'll be like, oh, wait, wait a
second.
674
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:47,660
What's going on here?
And they'll just like, it'll stop, it'll
675
00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:50,724
divert their focus or, you seem really
stressed.
676
00:32:50,812 --> 00:32:53,160
You want to pet the mouse?
Come, let me show you.
677
00:32:54,660 --> 00:32:57,092
Look what the mouse is doing when you touch
it.
678
00:32:57,116 --> 00:32:58,100
Give him a pet.
679
00:32:58,260 --> 00:33:00,860
And it creates that sense of calm and that
680
00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:06,716
distraction that can divert attention and
cause less anxiety.
681
00:33:06,908 --> 00:33:12,410
And I've noticed that when Abram is playing
with the mouse, even when he's not, like
682
00:33:12,490 --> 00:33:17,666
always aware of where the mouse is, he's
calmer, he's far more focused.
683
00:33:17,858 --> 00:33:20,826
He is aware of what's going on around him.
684
00:33:20,938 --> 00:33:22,682
He's not distracted.
685
00:33:22,866 --> 00:33:26,362
And it zeros in his attention.
686
00:33:26,506 --> 00:33:30,210
Leah: He has to be, because as he pointed out,
nibbles can just run off.
687
00:33:30,250 --> 00:33:31,682
So he has to be wherever nibbles.
688
00:33:31,706 --> 00:33:36,898
Moshe: Is because you're putting that level of
care and caregiving onto him.
689
00:33:36,954 --> 00:33:41,422
You're going, oh, you should check to see if,
if nibbles has water, you should check the
690
00:33:41,446 --> 00:33:43,330
food to see if there's enough food in there.
691
00:33:43,670 --> 00:33:45,062
It's allowing him.
692
00:33:45,126 --> 00:33:49,930
And this is amazing for autistic children, but
it's great for all children.
693
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:56,342
It allows them to think about the needs of
other people instead of always being concerned
694
00:33:56,366 --> 00:33:57,094
with their own needs.
695
00:33:57,142 --> 00:33:58,974
Because a lot of children, most children, I
696
00:33:58,982 --> 00:34:03,366
would say, are by their very nature selfish,
of course, not just autistic children.
697
00:34:03,398 --> 00:34:11,150
And it teaches children to be aware of other
things, needs which are very helpful to their
698
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:14,830
personal development and a sense of empathy.
699
00:34:14,990 --> 00:34:19,190
Leah: So the next benefit, which it seems
relatively obvious, but we still should
700
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:21,090
discuss it, pressure.
701
00:34:21,390 --> 00:34:23,550
So when you're talking about bigger animals
702
00:34:23,590 --> 00:34:30,430
like cats or dogs, you know, having something
warm and heavy in your lap or push its head
703
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:35,320
against you or whatever, can help a lot with
emotional regulation, pressure is something
704
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:36,392
that actually helps you a lot.
705
00:34:36,416 --> 00:34:37,980
Can you talk about that a little bit?
706
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:44,792
Moshe: Feeling pushed or grounded or held
together, I think held together is probably a
707
00:34:44,816 --> 00:34:46,464
better description of it.
708
00:34:46,592 --> 00:34:48,688
Sometimes when you're feeling especially
709
00:34:48,784 --> 00:34:53,208
anxious, especially either under
overstimulated, you need some sort of a
710
00:34:53,224 --> 00:35:01,078
grounding influence a little, I say a little
while ago, but some time ago, I started
711
00:35:01,254 --> 00:35:06,686
getting big dogs, and for me, that was
important.
712
00:35:06,758 --> 00:35:13,734
I didn't know yet that I was autistic, but I
knew that being in bed and having this heavy
713
00:35:13,902 --> 00:35:18,726
creature lying on top of me made me feel good,
and I didn't really know why.
714
00:35:18,918 --> 00:35:27,016
And I also felt that when they weren't around,
I felt anxious and upset, and it was a level
715
00:35:27,048 --> 00:35:29,160
of security that I enjoyed.
716
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,744
And that's why.
717
00:35:30,832 --> 00:35:32,904
And we're going to talk about it a little bit.
718
00:35:33,072 --> 00:35:35,728
When you talk about emotional support animals,
719
00:35:35,784 --> 00:35:38,460
but that's a little bit less service animals.
720
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,968
They actually do teach therapy animals, and
721
00:35:43,024 --> 00:35:47,984
service animals are more specific, but they
teach therapy animals to actually lie on top
722
00:35:48,032 --> 00:35:53,944
of a. Of an autistic person to help them.
723
00:35:54,112 --> 00:35:56,592
They identify the signs of meltdown or signs
724
00:35:56,616 --> 00:36:03,160
of anxiety or just when the child is feeling
really, really out of control and
725
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,312
overstimulated or whatever.
726
00:36:05,496 --> 00:36:08,392
They have these dogs that can lie on top of
727
00:36:08,416 --> 00:36:08,980
them.
728
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:10,872
And this is not just dogs.
729
00:36:10,896 --> 00:36:12,400
I mean, I love dogs.
730
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,466
Dogs are amazing, but cats, you can't train
731
00:36:15,498 --> 00:36:16,194
them so much.
732
00:36:16,282 --> 00:36:18,914
But having a cat will also help.
733
00:36:19,082 --> 00:36:26,970
Rabbits are also used because rabbits are very
skittish, but they can be calming to just
734
00:36:27,050 --> 00:36:29,354
stick the rabbit in the lap and the rabbit.
735
00:36:29,402 --> 00:36:32,522
Just petting the rabbit and just petting the
736
00:36:32,546 --> 00:36:33,018
rabbit.
737
00:36:33,114 --> 00:36:37,230
And it's very useful for helping children.
738
00:36:37,650 --> 00:36:40,290
Leah: So that brings me to the next thing,
actually petting rabbit.
739
00:36:40,330 --> 00:36:41,070
Texture.
740
00:36:41,780 --> 00:36:43,868
You know, a lot of people who are
741
00:36:43,884 --> 00:36:49,012
neurodivergent, also neurotypical, will seek
textures that they like to feel through their
742
00:36:49,036 --> 00:36:50,300
fingers or their hands.
743
00:36:50,420 --> 00:36:52,196
And that can also be very calming.
744
00:36:52,308 --> 00:36:52,860
Moshe: Yes.
745
00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:53,840
Leah: Warmth.
746
00:36:54,220 --> 00:36:56,572
And also teaching, especially children, and
747
00:36:56,596 --> 00:36:59,924
especially children on the spectrum, how to
touch something gently.
748
00:37:00,092 --> 00:37:02,428
Moshe: Yes, it's very nice.
749
00:37:02,484 --> 00:37:06,654
Leah: It's good practice when you actually
have to interact with other humans, especially
750
00:37:06,702 --> 00:37:08,318
when you have a partner later in life.
751
00:37:08,454 --> 00:37:14,286
Moshe: One of the things that concern certain
people who don't fully understand what is
752
00:37:14,358 --> 00:37:22,010
going on is they are loathe to give an
autistic child, or a child with difficulties,
753
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:27,358
mental illness, intellectual disability,
whatever you want to call it, a small
754
00:37:27,414 --> 00:37:30,606
creature, like a mouse or a gerbil.
755
00:37:30,758 --> 00:37:32,852
Rats are a little bit bigger, so they kind of.
756
00:37:33,006 --> 00:37:34,648
It'll fall a little bit outside of there.
757
00:37:34,744 --> 00:37:36,712
But like a small animal, they're like, well,
758
00:37:36,736 --> 00:37:38,024
how do you trust it?
How do you know?
759
00:37:38,072 --> 00:37:41,056
How do you, you know what happens if he
doesn't?
760
00:37:41,088 --> 00:37:46,288
What happens if he squeezes it?
But that's the thing, is you want to do that.
761
00:37:46,344 --> 00:37:52,984
You want to teach someone who needs that kind
of help, that when he has this tiny little
762
00:37:53,032 --> 00:37:55,280
mouse, he has to be so gentle.
763
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,212
And you tell them, you have to be so gentle
764
00:37:58,336 --> 00:37:59,156
when you pet them out.
765
00:37:59,188 --> 00:38:01,836
You have to be so gentle because it's very
766
00:38:01,908 --> 00:38:03,740
small and you don't want to hurt it.
767
00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:10,260
And it actually allows a child to temper the
768
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:11,600
pressure that they use.
769
00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:15,572
That's not to say that these gigantic dogs are
770
00:38:15,596 --> 00:38:19,388
not also wonderful, because you can hug them
as tightly as you want and you're not going to
771
00:38:19,404 --> 00:38:20,404
really do much.
772
00:38:20,572 --> 00:38:22,280
Leah: Okay, so here's the thing.
773
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:24,436
There's a few things to talk about there.
774
00:38:24,468 --> 00:38:28,542
Your dogs, aka our dogs, were not service dogs
or be dogs.
775
00:38:28,566 --> 00:38:29,686
They were not trained at all.
776
00:38:29,758 --> 00:38:30,342
Moshe: Not at all.
777
00:38:30,406 --> 00:38:31,782
Leah: And they were so huge.
778
00:38:31,846 --> 00:38:33,294
They were designed for you.
779
00:38:33,422 --> 00:38:36,254
For me being half your size and him being half
my size.
780
00:38:36,302 --> 00:38:38,278
Again, they didn't work so well for us.
781
00:38:38,334 --> 00:38:38,846
Moshe: Not for that.
782
00:38:38,878 --> 00:38:40,810
Leah: No, for anything.
783
00:38:41,150 --> 00:38:42,942
We couldn't walk them anyway.
784
00:38:42,966 --> 00:38:43,750
It was the whole thing.
785
00:38:43,830 --> 00:38:45,710
Moshe: It was a challenging part.
786
00:38:45,790 --> 00:38:47,566
I mean, they were wonderful dogs on their own,
787
00:38:47,598 --> 00:38:49,438
right?
But they didn't receive the training that they
788
00:38:49,454 --> 00:38:49,998
should have received.
789
00:38:50,054 --> 00:38:52,240
And that's unfortunate.
790
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:56,620
And we couldn't take them with us when we came
to Israel.
791
00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:58,508
Leah: They did find a really good home
together.
792
00:38:58,684 --> 00:39:03,796
They had been raised together since very
young, and we rehomed them to a fantastic
793
00:39:03,868 --> 00:39:04,532
family.
794
00:39:04,716 --> 00:39:07,052
I think it was with two teenage kids and a mom
795
00:39:07,076 --> 00:39:09,964
and dad, which made sense because they weren't
good for small children.
796
00:39:10,012 --> 00:39:14,924
Moshe: They were large and they required a lot
of training and obedience.
797
00:39:15,092 --> 00:39:23,214
But I mean, dogs are wonderful, but small
animals, especially delicate animals, are
798
00:39:23,262 --> 00:39:31,230
really good for teaching a child how to temper
their pressure because you're going to go and
799
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:35,366
grab something and it's going to smush that
and you don't want to smush your animals.
800
00:39:35,398 --> 00:39:37,610
So you teach the child, be very gentle.
801
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:40,622
And I mean, sometimes you can, sometimes you
802
00:39:40,646 --> 00:39:40,926
can't.
803
00:39:40,958 --> 00:39:43,902
And I'm talking a lot about the benefits of
804
00:39:43,926 --> 00:39:44,086
it.
805
00:39:44,118 --> 00:39:49,080
But unfortunately, if you have a child that
806
00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:55,492
doesn't have the ability to temper what they
do, a mouse or a small animal may not be the
807
00:39:55,516 --> 00:39:56,420
best pet for them.
808
00:39:56,460 --> 00:39:58,668
Leah: So Abram, as you heard, is quite
functional.
809
00:39:58,764 --> 00:39:59,436
Moshe: Yes.
810
00:39:59,588 --> 00:40:03,960
Leah: If you have a level three autistic
child, then maybe don't.
811
00:40:04,340 --> 00:40:04,996
Moshe: I don't.
812
00:40:05,068 --> 00:40:08,332
I mean, there's definitely benefits to it.
813
00:40:08,476 --> 00:40:15,970
But as I said, if you have a child that is
unfortunately unable to regulate their
814
00:40:16,270 --> 00:40:22,010
anything a lot of the time, then having a
small, delicate creature maybe not necessarily
815
00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:25,610
the best plan.
816
00:40:26,030 --> 00:40:28,734
But that's not to say that they can't have
817
00:40:28,782 --> 00:40:29,094
animals.
818
00:40:29,142 --> 00:40:32,110
And we're going to be talking a lot more soon
819
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:38,824
about HIPAA therapy or horse therapy, which
has amazing results with autistics.
820
00:40:38,942 --> 00:40:39,244
Leah: So.
821
00:40:39,292 --> 00:40:40,004
Moshe: Of all kinds.
822
00:40:40,052 --> 00:40:43,396
Leah: Yeah. So confidence, that's the next
thing it'll teach.
823
00:40:43,548 --> 00:40:47,572
Not just an autistic child, any child, or
autistic adults also, because they're not
824
00:40:47,596 --> 00:40:50,508
always great with reciprocal interactions,
confidence.
825
00:40:50,644 --> 00:40:50,940
Moshe: Right.
826
00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:54,756
Leah: That they can have a reciprocal
interaction with something or someone that's
827
00:40:54,788 --> 00:40:59,708
not going to judge them and they can actually
affect chain onto another living thing.
828
00:40:59,884 --> 00:41:08,920
Moshe: Yes. And one of the things that I came
across Reddit, and I do find a lot of my best
829
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:16,816
material on Reddit for a variety of reasons,
someone posted under the autism, it was either
830
00:41:16,848 --> 00:41:20,856
the autistic subreddit or the autistic adult
subreddit.
831
00:41:21,048 --> 00:41:26,060
And the question was, do you think my dog
knows that I'm autistic?
832
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,664
And we're going to talk a little bit about
whether dogs can detect autism.
833
00:41:30,832 --> 00:41:33,152
But this was not so much about detection.
834
00:41:33,216 --> 00:41:36,384
It was more, do you think the question was, do
835
00:41:36,392 --> 00:41:38,736
you think my dog judges me for being autistic?
836
00:41:38,848 --> 00:41:39,408
Leah: No.
837
00:41:39,544 --> 00:41:46,176
Moshe: And my answer, if you go on the
subreddit, if you find the question, can my
838
00:41:46,208 --> 00:41:51,072
dog tell that I'm autistic?
And my answer was quite simply, one of the
839
00:41:51,096 --> 00:41:57,770
most beautiful things about a dog or a cat or
any animal is that the question is not even
840
00:41:57,850 --> 00:41:59,602
whether or not it can tell if you're autistic.
841
00:41:59,626 --> 00:42:03,270
The fact is it doesn't care because an animal
842
00:42:03,810 --> 00:42:09,962
either completely lacks the ability to judge
someone or doesn't have the ability to judge
843
00:42:09,986 --> 00:42:10,922
them at all.
844
00:42:11,106 --> 00:42:13,962
Because if your dog, if you get your autistic
845
00:42:13,986 --> 00:42:20,826
child, a dog or a cat or a mouse or a rat or a
gerbil or any animal, the animal is not going
846
00:42:20,858 --> 00:42:24,470
to look at the child and go, oh my, it's an
autistic child.
847
00:42:25,020 --> 00:42:26,788
It's just going to say, are you going to feed
me?
848
00:42:26,844 --> 00:42:29,308
Are you going to love me?
Are you going to take care of me?
849
00:42:29,444 --> 00:42:32,724
Are you going to spend the rest of my life
with me?
850
00:42:32,772 --> 00:42:33,916
Then fantastic.
851
00:42:33,948 --> 00:42:34,596
That's all that matters.
852
00:42:34,628 --> 00:42:36,244
Leah: Your dog just knows that it loves you.
853
00:42:36,332 --> 00:42:38,476
And can they sense autism?
854
00:42:38,548 --> 00:42:42,020
Maybe there's been some studies, but what does
sense mean?
855
00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:43,444
They're certainly not judging.
856
00:42:43,572 --> 00:42:45,740
Dogs are probably the most non judgmental
857
00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:47,932
creatures that God ever created.
858
00:42:47,996 --> 00:42:51,912
Moshe: The post was quite sad, as a lot of
these ones is.
859
00:42:52,096 --> 00:42:54,848
You have this person who has a dog.
860
00:42:55,024 --> 00:42:58,288
And it struck with me because I also was an
861
00:42:58,304 --> 00:42:59,896
autistic adult with a dog.
862
00:43:00,048 --> 00:43:02,832
And when the guy has a meltdown, when the guy
863
00:43:02,976 --> 00:43:10,980
is flapping his hands, when the guy is just
completely overstimulated and shutting down,
864
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,216
is his dog judging him?
Is his dog mad at him?
865
00:43:16,368 --> 00:43:22,820
Does my dog, do you think my dog gets mad at
me when I'm always crying and I just, I can't
866
00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:27,540
stand loud noises?
Do you think my dog thinks less of me because
867
00:43:27,580 --> 00:43:32,988
of how I act?
And I said, the dog knows that you love it and
868
00:43:33,004 --> 00:43:35,780
the dog is never going to judge you for who
you are.
869
00:43:35,860 --> 00:43:36,836
Leah: The dog doesn't care.
870
00:43:36,868 --> 00:43:37,508
The dog knows that.
871
00:43:37,524 --> 00:43:40,812
That's how their human behaves and that's that
exactly.
872
00:43:40,996 --> 00:43:44,282
Moshe: And if that's, that's all they know.
873
00:43:44,436 --> 00:43:47,926
And if you happen to be a. I talked to Talea
874
00:43:47,958 --> 00:43:48,726
about this.
875
00:43:48,878 --> 00:43:51,918
Not to compare dogs to children, but if you
876
00:43:51,934 --> 00:43:56,774
have a dog that has been with you since or a
cat, I mean, I don't want to limit it to dogs,
877
00:43:56,862 --> 00:44:02,206
but if you have a dog or a cat or an animal
that's known you for most of its life, then
878
00:44:02,238 --> 00:44:05,370
that's just how it feels that you act.
879
00:44:05,710 --> 00:44:08,382
It's going to go, well, I guess humans are
880
00:44:08,406 --> 00:44:09,828
always doing this sort of thing.
881
00:44:09,974 --> 00:44:12,080
And I said to Leah, that's kind of like having
882
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,504
a child that's born to an autistic parent.
883
00:44:14,672 --> 00:44:17,288
It's, you know, sending the kid to school and
884
00:44:17,304 --> 00:44:20,640
the kid going, what?
You mean all fathers aren't autistic?
885
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:20,976
I don't.
886
00:44:21,008 --> 00:44:22,808
Like, I thought your dad doesn't have.
887
00:44:22,824 --> 00:44:24,320
Leah: To go in the bedroom and cry sometimes.
888
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,656
Moshe: I thought all fathers, you know, had
meltdowns.
889
00:44:26,728 --> 00:44:28,088
That's weird that yours doesn't.
890
00:44:28,144 --> 00:44:29,136
What's wrong with him?
891
00:44:29,248 --> 00:44:31,704
Leah: Right?
You know, I mean, Avram knows better because
892
00:44:31,752 --> 00:44:34,736
he knows that you're both autistic and he
understands it in a different way.
893
00:44:34,888 --> 00:44:36,612
And Raya's just, whatever.
894
00:44:36,676 --> 00:44:38,280
Too smart for her own pants.
895
00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:39,844
Yeah.
896
00:44:39,892 --> 00:44:41,836
I mean, having a baby raised with an autistic
897
00:44:41,868 --> 00:44:45,748
father the first time they go to school, they
may say, your dad doesn't have to go in the
898
00:44:45,764 --> 00:44:47,720
bedroom and cry sometimes for a bit.
899
00:44:48,340 --> 00:44:49,156
Moshe: Right.
900
00:44:49,348 --> 00:44:53,092
Leah: Anyway, so increased exercise.
901
00:44:53,196 --> 00:44:55,180
Actually, let's go back to calming meltdowns.
902
00:44:55,220 --> 00:44:58,240
Let's talk about how an animal can help with
calming meltdown.
903
00:44:58,660 --> 00:44:59,396
Moshe: We are.
904
00:44:59,468 --> 00:45:02,350
Leah: This seems to be across the board,
adults, children.
905
00:45:02,690 --> 00:45:03,562
Moshe: We kind of did.
906
00:45:03,626 --> 00:45:06,802
Because it comes back to providing an
907
00:45:06,826 --> 00:45:07,830
alternate focus.
908
00:45:08,130 --> 00:45:10,770
The child is in the midst of a meltdown
909
00:45:10,930 --> 00:45:14,330
regardless of the cause of it, and you present
an animal.
910
00:45:14,490 --> 00:45:19,510
And again, as we just discussed, the animal
doesn't judge.
911
00:45:20,170 --> 00:45:22,426
It might be a little bit concerned.
912
00:45:22,578 --> 00:45:25,818
It might be wondering what's going on, if it's
913
00:45:25,834 --> 00:45:27,170
a dog or something.
914
00:45:27,210 --> 00:45:29,294
It might sense that you're anxious and want to
915
00:45:29,362 --> 00:45:33,250
find some way to help you, but it can provide
a focus.
916
00:45:33,550 --> 00:45:36,054
It can go, hey, you're having a meltdown.
917
00:45:36,102 --> 00:45:36,334
Look.
918
00:45:36,382 --> 00:45:37,414
Look what the.
919
00:45:37,502 --> 00:45:39,142
Look what the dog is doing.
920
00:45:39,286 --> 00:45:42,090
Look what the cat's doing, what the mouse is
doing.
921
00:45:42,990 --> 00:45:46,862
You want your pet nibbles?
Want your pet nibbles for a few seconds, make
922
00:45:46,886 --> 00:45:49,254
you feel better, and it just provides this.
923
00:45:49,302 --> 00:45:49,814
Wait, what?
924
00:45:49,862 --> 00:45:51,606
Something else to focus on.
925
00:45:51,638 --> 00:45:52,690
Oh, wow.
926
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:55,318
I can do this now and again.
927
00:45:55,374 --> 00:45:56,534
Leah: For both adults and children.
928
00:45:56,622 --> 00:45:57,910
It will increase exercise.
929
00:45:57,950 --> 00:45:59,966
A lot of times, if you have a dog, they have
to walk.
930
00:46:00,118 --> 00:46:01,574
It'll give you a reason.
931
00:46:01,622 --> 00:46:02,822
You had that right.
932
00:46:02,886 --> 00:46:05,318
It gave you a reason to literally get out of
the house.
933
00:46:05,494 --> 00:46:06,690
Moshe: Sense of purpose.
934
00:46:07,150 --> 00:46:09,374
That applies a lot to mental illness, too.
935
00:46:09,422 --> 00:46:17,366
A lot of people with depression will actually
get a dog or something that requires regular
936
00:46:17,438 --> 00:46:20,198
support, like a cat or a caged animal.
937
00:46:20,254 --> 00:46:21,862
You can theoretically just kind of leave to
938
00:46:21,886 --> 00:46:22,590
their own devices.
939
00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:24,358
And a lot of the time they're happy with it.
940
00:46:24,454 --> 00:46:28,568
But a dog requires, like, you have to get up
and walk them.
941
00:46:28,664 --> 00:46:30,512
You have to go and feed them.
942
00:46:30,616 --> 00:46:33,024
You have to provide them with attention.
943
00:46:33,192 --> 00:46:37,408
You can't just, you know, go to bed for two
days and just, they're going to be cool with
944
00:46:37,424 --> 00:46:37,576
it.
945
00:46:37,608 --> 00:46:41,368
Leah: That was a big part of your recuperation
from your Covid phase where you were at home
946
00:46:41,424 --> 00:46:45,760
all the time and you had gained a lot of
weight, and you were happy with that, and you
947
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,980
just, you brought the dogs to the park and you
started exercising too.
Version: 20240731