Autism & AI: Friend or Foe? | Neurodiversity & Tech

Episode Title: Autism & AI: Friend or Foe? | Neurodiversity & Tech

Episode Number: 32

Release Date: December 17, 2024

Duration: 52:13

Episode Summary:

In this episode of Now You Know One Autistic, Moshe and Leah explore the complex relationship between AI and the autistic community. They discuss the potential of AI to facilitate communication for individuals on the spectrum while addressing the possible pitfalls of this emerging technology.

Key Takeaways

• AI can be used to enhance communication for individuals on the autism spectrum. 
• There are potential risks associated with using AI in interpersonal communication, including misleading others and faking emotions.
• AI should be used as a tool to assist in communication, not to replace it entirely.

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• The potential benefits and risks of using AI for communication in the autistic community. 
• Real-world examples of how Moshe uses AI at work and in his personal life.
• Practical tips for using AI effectively as a communication tool.

Quotes

• "AI should be used as a tool to assist in communication, not to replace it entirely." - Moshe
• "The problem is when people behave like they don't care, it's because at least on some level, you don't care." - Leah
• "AI is a great boon for neurodiverse people, provided that you use it effectively as a way of assisting in communication rather than replacing." - Moshe

Resources & Links

• Now You Know One Autistic website: Homepage
• ARK Therapeutic: https://www.arktherapeutic.com/

Connect with Us

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• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61557857484848
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Transcript:

WEBVTT

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<v Music>

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<v Moshe>Hi, I'm Moshe, and I'm autistic.

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<v Leah>I'm Leah, and I'm boring. Welcome to the Now You Know One Autistic podcast.

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<v Moshe>The opinions expressed in this podcast reflect one autistic and one Leah,

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<v Moshe>and don't necessarily reflect the entire autistic community.

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<v Leah>Let's get to it.

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<v Moshe>Hi, Leah. Hi, Moshe. So how are you doing?

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<v Leah>I'm okay. How are you?

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<v Moshe>I'm good. It's good to be back again.

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<v Leah>Yes.

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<v Moshe>So we promised a regular schedule and it didn't work out because of some things

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<v Moshe>that were happening last week. But we're definitely back now.

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<v Moshe>And hopefully the busy, hectic schedule that we had that caused all of these

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<v Moshe>delays is no longer the case.

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<v Leah>I think the lesson is that we just shouldn't make promises. If people like listening

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<v Leah>to us, they should just come and listen.

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<v Moshe>Pretty much. And I think we've recorded enough episodes at this point that if

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<v Moshe>you're new to Now You Know What Autistic Podcast, then you could just listen

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<v Moshe>to the 31, I think, other episodes that we have.

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<v Moshe>And if you're not, then you could re-listen because I'm sure you'll find something new if you listen.

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<v Moshe>And sometimes even with podcasts that I like to listen to, I'll occasionally

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<v Moshe>go back to the very beginning and try to hear the differences between like the

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<v Moshe>latest episode and the first episode.

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<v Leah>Me too. So this week's topic you came up with. Yes. It's a very interesting one.

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<v Leah>I think it requires some explanation because it's not really obvious on the surface.

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<v Leah>So you use AI a lot for work, for social media posts, I guess for texts and emails as well.

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<v Leah>And that helps you a lot. So an AI is becoming really, really advanced very quickly.

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<v Moshe>Yeah.

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<v Leah>So you wanted to talk about how AI could be useful for people on the spectrum

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<v Leah>in terms of helping them relate to other people, but also we wanted to discuss the possible pitfalls.

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<v Leah>So what are some thoughts on that?

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<v Moshe>Okay, so discussion. If I had to title this episode, I'm sure the AI that actually

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<v Moshe>listens to the show, reads the transcript,

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<v Moshe>and comes up with all the information that helps me to formulate things like

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<v Moshe>episode description and title and stuff is itself an AI that is very useful.

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<v Moshe>But really, the title of the episode that I originally came up with is Neurodiversity

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<v Moshe>in Technology, because it's really something that needs to be discussed.

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<v Moshe>And AI is definitely a big part of that, but not the entire part.

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<v Leah>Yeah, isn't it true that autistics, anyway, for the last little bit,

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<v Leah>let's say for the last 20 years or so, have been using technologies as they progress?

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<v Leah>Right so at first they used like picture things picture boards and then picture

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<v Leah>boards they use nonverbal communication I forget what they were called it was

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<v Leah>so long ago but you know where you press the letters and it speaks

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<v Moshe>For you the.

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<v Leah>Thing that Stephen Hawking had

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<v Moshe>Like a speech.

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<v Leah>Box or something like

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<v Moshe>A voice box or text to speech.

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<v Leah>Yeah and then they went to like tablets and then they went to cell phones and

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<v Leah>etc so So autistics have been using technology, especially those who are considered

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<v Leah>nonverbal or less verbal or less communicative, since they've been coming out.

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<v Moshe>Absolutely.

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<v Leah>And as they come out and evolve, they've been using them to help them.

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<v Leah>So AI just seems to be the next incarnation of it.

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<v Moshe>Right. So technology itself, and AI, like you said, is the latest incarnation of this,

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<v Moshe>has been at the forefront of allowing for communication or facilitating,

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<v Moshe>I guess I could say, communication for neurodiverse people and autistics in particular.

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<v Moshe>And I mean, there are a lot of flavors of the neurodiverse spectrum, obviously.

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<v Moshe>But I think for this episode in particular, because we do discuss a lot of different

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<v Moshe>kinds of neurodiversity throughout the show or in the past.

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<v Moshe>We've talked about ADHD and we've talked about Tourette's syndrome and all the

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<v Moshe>kinds of different things that can manifest as neurodiversity.

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<v Moshe>But I want to focus in a little bit more on autism on this show because,

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<v Moshe>well, this episode, this show will be focused on everything.

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<v Leah>I mean, I guess because communication is one of the hallmarks or communication

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<v Leah>issues is one of the spheres or hallmarks of an autism diagnosis.

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<v Moshe>Right. Now, and that is in itself a bit of a false perception.

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<v Moshe>Because as we might have discussed a little bit back when we were talking about

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<v Moshe>genetics and also just as I kind of mentioned from episode number one,

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<v Moshe>communication is sort of threaded through

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<v Moshe>the entirety of the show because communication remains the core issue.

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<v Moshe>Now, when we talk about communication, we're not necessarily talking about being

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<v Moshe>able to express yourself because there's a lot of differences between talking and communicating,

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<v Moshe>just like there's a lot of differences between speaking and talking and hearing

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<v Moshe>and listening and all different.

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<v Moshe>We can talk about passive and active stuff all you want, but...

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<v Moshe>When we talk about the, I'm trying to remember the word for it,

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<v Moshe>but patchwork, one of the hallmarks of a neurodiverse diagnosis,

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<v Moshe>especially with early intervention, is the mismatched or the,

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<v Moshe>what's the word I'm looking for?

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<v Leah>Mismatched development. Mismatched development. It's not necessarily a delay

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<v Leah>in development. It's you develop too quickly in some things,

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<v Leah>not at all in other things, too slowly in other things.

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<v Leah>But the hallmark is that they're not really on target or necessarily appropriate

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<v Leah>for your age group or demographic or whatever.

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<v Moshe>Right. So when we were talking about, I think, the episode on genetics,

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<v Moshe>we talked about how you have your sort of quote unquote normal child who meets

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<v Moshe>the milestones round about the time that,

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<v Moshe>you know, the books and the charts and the doctors and the pediatricians say that they should.

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<v Moshe>They sit up at this time, and they hold their head up at this time,

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<v Moshe>and they start speaking at this time, and they walk at this time,

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<v Moshe>and they run at this time.

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<v Moshe>And then you have sort of the polar opposite of that, which is,

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<v Moshe>I think they called it a global developmental delay. Right.

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<v Leah>So I think we've discussed this before, but Avram, for example,

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<v Leah>was potty training before he could even walk properly.

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<v Leah>And they basically said that was impossible. Right. And you were reading before you could even walk.

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<v Leah>Right. If I'm not mistaken. So those things are just like a little public service announcement by me.

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<v Leah>If your child is not walking or talking by a certain age, you need to go at

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<v Leah>least have them evaluated because early intervention for these things is really

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<v Leah>important for their further development and success in life.

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<v Moshe>But it's really, it has to be a lot more focused on the global scale because you have to.

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<v Moshe>Okay, so again, neither Leah nor I are pediatricians or developmental psychologists.

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<v Moshe>I did take a course once on developmental psychology. It was a wonderful course.

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<v Moshe>But the nugget of it is that when you have a delay, and it could be a small

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<v Moshe>delay or it could be a big delay or it could be a significant delay or it could

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<v Moshe>be an insignificant delay.

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<v Moshe>That's why the doctors and everyone has these charts. Is your child this age?

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<v Moshe>Are they doing these things?

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<v Leah>But I say that because those are the hallmarks that a layperson,

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<v Leah>any parent who has no psychological education could see.

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<v Leah>They're not going to necessarily sit down and watch their child's proprioception

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<v Leah>or ability to grasp something or ability to throw a ball.

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<v Leah>But they will know if their child's not walking or talking at the appropriate time.

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<v Moshe>Right. But you have to start again.

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<v Leah>Leave that other stuff to the experts. That's why I say bring them to an expert. Right.

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<v Moshe>You have to start small and work your way out because a lot of the milestones

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<v Moshe>like walking and talking and potty training and...

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<v Moshe>You know, word development and that stuff are obvious, but a lot of things,

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<v Moshe>at least at first are not so obvious.

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<v Leah>Yeah. So Avram passed his first autism screening and his second.

00:09:02.682 --> 00:09:06.582
<v Leah>Right. And his blood panel for ADHD also came back negative.

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<v Moshe>Because in general, what you have, like I said, a global developmental delay.

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<v Moshe>So you have these, these disabilities or disorders, whatever you want to call

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<v Moshe>them, that are pretty much universal in terms of they affect everything.

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<v Moshe>The child isn't walking when they're supposed to. It's not holding their head

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<v Moshe>up when they're supposed to. They're not speaking when they're supposed to.

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<v Moshe>They're not potty training when they're supposed to.

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<v Leah>It's one of those trickle-down effects. We call that like

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<v Moshe>A global developmental delay. They're just slow.

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<v Leah>That anybody can see with the naked eye and know that they should take this

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<v Leah>child to a professional who will then do all this tiny micro-diagnoses and see what intervention is.

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<v Moshe>And it ends up in this thing that I keep talking about where we used to use

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<v Moshe>the labels of high functioning and low functioning.

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<v Moshe>And the global developmental delay, the child that is slow, the child that either

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<v Moshe>has a disorder or a disability.

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<v Leah>Yeah, but also let's just say slow. By slow, do you mean learning disabled?

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<v Leah>Because a lot of autistic kids are not.

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<v Moshe>Well, that's the thing. If you have a child, any child, like pick a child,

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<v Moshe>any child at all, and that child is just simply not meeting their milestones

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<v Moshe>or they're meeting them really late,

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<v Moshe>and they're meeting most or all of them late, then you would call that, I guess, a global delay.

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<v Moshe>Like they're not rocking when they're supposed to, they're not talking when they're supposed to.

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<v Leah>Which also used to be a diagnosis when they didn't want to give out diagnoses of autism.

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<v Moshe>It was. But when you start introducing, Like when you get close to and you get

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<v Moshe>past that milestone where speech is supposed to be involved in some way,

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<v Moshe>it really kind of becomes a little bit more noticeable.

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<v Moshe>But the problem comes when you're meeting a lot of those checkboxes,

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<v Moshe>but you're not meeting some of them.

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<v Leah>Okay, so let me stop you. We're getting off the topic. Everybody's heard us

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<v Leah>talk about autism diagnoses and what they should look out for.

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<v Leah>And if they have a child that has this or this or this problem,

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<v Leah>they should seek, you know, professional care.

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<v Leah>What we're trying to get to the nugget of is Moshe's talking about speech and

00:11:20.422 --> 00:11:24.582
<v Leah>communication. So let me just bring it back to you because that's who they come here to listen to.

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<v Leah>So clearly Moshe can speak. Right. Clearly Moshe can formulate words that make

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<v Leah>sense to other human beings into cohesive sentences and thoughts. Right.

00:11:34.210 --> 00:11:38.330
<v Leah>That does not mean that Moshe can necessarily communicate effectively.

00:11:38.750 --> 00:11:38.990
<v Moshe>Exactly.

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<v Leah>What does that mean? Inside his heart or inside his mind, he could be feeling, I'm really sad now.

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<v Leah>But what will come out of his mouth is, I'm great. I'm super happy about that.

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<v Leah>So he's making a sentence that makes sense to the outside world and they're

00:11:50.710 --> 00:11:53.270
<v Leah>perceiving something, but that's not what's happening on the inside.

00:11:53.710 --> 00:11:59.470
<v Leah>Right. So how does the current technologies, I can see how the older technologies didn't help you.

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<v Leah>You don't need a text-to-speech device.

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<v Leah>You don't need something that is going to create words for you.

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<v Leah>What you need is something that's going to interpret your thoughts or gather

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<v Leah>your thoughts or organize your thoughts and put them into a way that you can express them.

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<v Leah>So how is AI different and how is it helping you versus all of those other technologies

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<v Leah>that were available to autistics that you didn't necessarily need because you're

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<v Leah>clearly very good at making words?

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<v Moshe>Well, the innovative of technology was essentially to allow the development of information.

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<v Moshe>And again, it's going to be a little bit of a longer episode because it's impossible

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<v Moshe>for me to talk about AI without talking about delay and development.

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<v Moshe>And in order to talk about that, you have to discuss the concept of the advancement

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<v Moshe>of technology in our time.

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<v Moshe>And when you and I were growing up in the 80s and 90s, we had at our disposal

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<v Moshe>computers, but they weren't like great computers.

00:13:08.990 --> 00:13:09.990
<v Leah>But you know, I remember.

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<v Moshe>We had calculators.

00:13:11.430 --> 00:13:12.590
<v Leah>I remember for those of you who

00:13:12.590 --> 00:13:15.510
<v Leah>aren't super fans of ours, we do know each other since we're very young.

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<v Leah>Yes. You had a Game Boy that you could take with you anywhere,

00:13:19.010 --> 00:13:21.670
<v Leah>and it would keep you calm and it would keep you from running around places

00:13:21.670 --> 00:13:22.810
<v Leah>and breaking everything.

00:13:23.851 --> 00:13:28.711
<v Leah>You know, just smashing food and stuff at restaurants, which is a thing you

00:13:28.711 --> 00:13:31.731
<v Leah>would do because you were maybe more hyperactive when you were younger.

00:13:32.131 --> 00:13:35.411
<v Leah>And you had one of those, which your mom gave to you and let you take everywhere

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<v Leah>because it kept you more sedated.

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<v Moshe>But that was a technology that diverted my attention.

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<v Moshe>I'm talking about technology that allows or facilitates for the production and

00:13:48.931 --> 00:13:51.351
<v Moshe>the reception of information.

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<v Leah>Correct.

00:13:52.151 --> 00:13:58.011
<v Moshe>So when you are trying to communicate, in order to learn communication,

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<v Moshe>you have to communicate information. You can't just sit there babbling unless

00:14:03.051 --> 00:14:04.611
<v Moshe>you're a baby, in which case that's wonderful.

00:14:05.391 --> 00:14:11.631
<v Moshe>And it starts very small. If you are a person who's living in the, I don't know,

00:14:11.911 --> 00:14:18.451
<v Moshe>70s or 80s or 90s, then if you wanted to access a newspaper from 20 to 30 years

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<v Moshe>ago, you had to go to a library and you'd have to ask if they have back copies.

00:14:23.231 --> 00:14:27.291
<v Moshe>A lot of those have been converted to something that used to be called microfilm or microfiche.

00:14:27.791 --> 00:14:31.031
<v Moshe>And then you'd have to go through with like a little dial. If you're old enough

00:14:31.031 --> 00:14:35.351
<v Moshe>to remember, you'd turn it and it would have like copies of the newspapers.

00:14:35.711 --> 00:14:39.551
<v Moshe>And it would be laborious because of course somebody, an archivist would have

00:14:39.551 --> 00:14:43.071
<v Moshe>to work, like who worked in a public library or something, would have to go

00:14:43.071 --> 00:14:45.991
<v Moshe>down into the depths of the bowels of the,

00:14:46.831 --> 00:14:51.771
<v Moshe>building and go through these canisters of things, find the right film,

00:14:51.891 --> 00:14:55.511
<v Moshe>then have to install it, and then you'd have to sit there and idly flip through it.

00:14:55.891 --> 00:15:00.611
<v Leah>That was how they solved every mystery in every 80s and 90s movie. Do you remember that?

00:15:00.951 --> 00:15:04.371
<v Leah>Yes. They would go to the library and look at old articles.

00:15:05.871 --> 00:15:10.631
<v Moshe>And really briefly, I'll start by telling the story that I always tell about

00:15:10.631 --> 00:15:12.151
<v Moshe>the project that I had to do in grade 6.

00:15:12.971 --> 00:15:18.131
<v Moshe>So the year was, I'm going to say, approximately either 92 or 93.

00:15:19.584 --> 00:15:25.004
<v Moshe>My teacher, my English teacher, assigned the class a project where they had

00:15:25.004 --> 00:15:28.624
<v Moshe>to go, they had to create in a readable format.

00:15:28.844 --> 00:15:32.704
<v Moshe>They call it a timeline project where for every year that you've been alive

00:15:32.704 --> 00:15:36.784
<v Moshe>from the date of birth to the present year, you'd have to find one international

00:15:36.784 --> 00:15:38.804
<v Moshe>story, one national story, one local story.

00:15:39.524 --> 00:15:43.404
<v Moshe>And you would have to do it. And we were all 11 and 12 years old.

00:15:43.544 --> 00:15:50.704
<v Moshe>So we would have to do whatever 11 or 12 times 3 is. So like 36 stories, we'll say, at the most.

00:15:51.464 --> 00:15:54.644
<v Moshe>And each story would have to be researched. And in order to research it,

00:15:54.844 --> 00:15:56.704
<v Moshe>you'd have to go generally to a library.

00:15:56.944 --> 00:16:01.264
<v Moshe>So first you'd have to go to the indexes. You'd have to go through those little

00:16:01.264 --> 00:16:04.384
<v Moshe>drawers that used to be in the libraries and find the card for the book.

00:16:04.484 --> 00:16:06.944
<v Moshe>And then you'd have to go to the shelves and see if the book was there.

00:16:07.084 --> 00:16:09.084
<v Moshe>And then you'd have to pull the book off the reference shelf,

00:16:09.104 --> 00:16:12.144
<v Moshe>and you'd have to sit at a little desk and search through everything.

00:16:12.744 --> 00:16:15.824
<v Moshe>And then you'd have to find, hopefully, that you'd find a story.

00:16:15.824 --> 00:16:20.324
<v Moshe>But if you wanted to find the actual literal stories, because in international

00:16:20.324 --> 00:16:24.184
<v Moshe>news and national news, you could usually find in the reference books.

00:16:24.324 --> 00:16:28.344
<v Moshe>But if you're looking for a local story, we grew up in Montreal, you and I.

00:16:28.484 --> 00:16:32.984
<v Moshe>So I would have to go to the Montreal Public Library, the Jewish Public Library,

00:16:33.144 --> 00:16:39.224
<v Moshe>and I'd have to find the microfilm for the Montreal Gazette that existed in 1981, say.

00:16:40.104 --> 00:16:44.224
<v Leah>Yeah, the only English newspapers. Montreal Gazette, the Suburban, and the Mirror.

00:16:44.224 --> 00:16:50.204
<v Moshe>And for the local story, I would have to go through not just one newspaper,

00:16:50.204 --> 00:16:51.164
<v Moshe>because obviously there was

00:16:51.164 --> 00:16:56.864
<v Moshe>a newspaper every day of every week of every month for the entire year.

00:16:57.024 --> 00:17:01.344
<v Moshe>So we're talking probably 30 to 31 different newspapers.

00:17:01.504 --> 00:17:05.844
<v Moshe>And I'd have to go through 31 different newspapers of the edition of the Montreal

00:17:05.844 --> 00:17:08.684
<v Moshe>Gazette and find a story that was relevant.

00:17:09.164 --> 00:17:12.724
<v Moshe>Because I remember, I forget what year it was, but I found a local story about

00:17:12.724 --> 00:17:16.164
<v Moshe>a woman that had a chicken that laid a lot of eggs that year.

00:17:16.544 --> 00:17:20.044
<v Moshe>And my teacher wrote like a comment, do you really feel that this is a relevant

00:17:20.044 --> 00:17:21.904
<v Moshe>story worth mentioning?

00:17:22.204 --> 00:17:28.404
<v Moshe>So you had to find a story that was relevant that happened locally in the Montreal

00:17:28.404 --> 00:17:29.704
<v Moshe>or the Hampstead region.

00:17:30.204 --> 00:17:34.604
<v Moshe>And that project, that entire project took hours and hours and hours and hours of work.

00:17:34.764 --> 00:17:38.044
<v Moshe>I'd have to go to the library after school every day and stay there until around

00:17:38.044 --> 00:17:39.264
<v Moshe>five or six, before supper.

00:17:39.704 --> 00:17:42.404
<v Moshe>And I'd have to do that. And it took me about a week, maybe two weeks.

00:17:43.564 --> 00:17:49.144
<v Moshe>And I was 12. So that was 92 or 93. In five to six years,

00:17:50.228 --> 00:17:54.668
<v Moshe>we had access at least to the basic internet. The first time I ever used the internet was 98.

00:17:54.908 --> 00:17:55.828
<v Leah>Netscape Navigator.

00:17:56.188 --> 00:18:01.328
<v Moshe>Yeah. So 98 used to get those CDs in the mail for like 20 or 50 or 100 free

00:18:01.328 --> 00:18:02.508
<v Moshe>hours of AOL or something.

00:18:03.288 --> 00:18:08.288
<v Moshe>And in a matter of five to six years, we went from a project taking two to three

00:18:08.288 --> 00:18:14.468
<v Moshe>weeks, depending on how much time you had, to a project taking probably two to three days.

00:18:14.848 --> 00:18:19.908
<v Moshe>I say two to three days because every page you loaded took 45 minutes.

00:18:20.228 --> 00:18:23.968
<v Moshe>And sometimes someone would pick up the phone and then you'd be done for the night.

00:18:25.308 --> 00:18:30.288
<v Moshe>To fast forward, I would say probably another three to four years, maybe even less.

00:18:30.548 --> 00:18:34.068
<v Moshe>You had more mainstream internet that was in most people's homes.

00:18:34.328 --> 00:18:40.348
<v Moshe>And now the internet was not like high speed the way we have it today, but it was faster.

00:18:40.568 --> 00:18:43.628
<v Leah>They switched it to cable, like how we used to have TV. Right.

00:18:43.848 --> 00:18:46.828
<v Leah>And that eliminated the need for it to go over the phone lines.

00:18:46.828 --> 00:18:49.828
<v Leah>And so it sped it up and it also stopped the issue of like your mom not being

00:18:49.828 --> 00:18:51.108
<v Leah>able to make calls while you were on.

00:18:51.268 --> 00:18:55.428
<v Moshe>So now, all of a sudden, in a matter of a decade, maybe, maybe a little more,

00:18:55.608 --> 00:19:01.968
<v Moshe>we went from having to go to a library to find our information to having to

00:19:01.968 --> 00:19:05.008
<v Moshe>go on the computer at home and find that information.

00:19:05.008 --> 00:19:12.428
<v Moshe>And how that translates to communication is if you were to talk to me in the

00:19:12.428 --> 00:19:17.688
<v Moshe>early 90s and say, do you remember that restaurant that we used to go to?

00:19:18.008 --> 00:19:21.568
<v Moshe>I forget its name. It was on Queen Mary Street. Remember the place that was

00:19:21.568 --> 00:19:25.488
<v Moshe>next to the ice cream store that I used to go to? It had like a brown sign. Remember that?

00:19:25.888 --> 00:19:32.808
<v Moshe>And if you were in the early 90s, you would probably have to go to a library.

00:19:33.028 --> 00:19:33.788
<v Leah>The yellow pages.

00:19:33.788 --> 00:19:36.628
<v Moshe>You'd have to go to the, but maybe the Yellow Pages didn't exist.

00:19:37.008 --> 00:19:40.768
<v Moshe>You'd have to go to the library or something and find the Yellow Pages from like 1987.

00:19:41.348 --> 00:19:44.788
<v Moshe>And then you'd have to hope that it was in there because you didn't know what the name of it was.

00:19:45.228 --> 00:19:48.688
<v Moshe>And then in a matter of 10 to 15 years, you could just go online and write in

00:19:48.688 --> 00:19:51.048
<v Moshe>restaurant on Queen Mary ice cream or whatever.

00:19:51.188 --> 00:19:54.288
<v Moshe>And it would give you a lot of the time, the information you were looking for.

00:19:54.508 --> 00:19:58.888
<v Moshe>So with the innovation of internet, you had the innovation of the reception of information.

00:19:59.748 --> 00:20:05.568
<v Moshe>So autistic people were in their prime because now instead of being hyper-focused

00:20:05.568 --> 00:20:09.248
<v Moshe>on one specific thing and researching and researching and researching and researching it,

00:20:09.388 --> 00:20:15.468
<v Moshe>they can now sit on a tablet or a phone or a computer and spend hours just researching

00:20:15.468 --> 00:20:21.268
<v Moshe>in minute detail insects or trains or whatever their hyper-focus was.

00:20:21.448 --> 00:20:27.068
<v Moshe>And the reception of information allowed for the distribution of information. So you could go...

00:20:27.993 --> 00:20:31.533
<v Moshe>To me, or I could go to you, and I could say, hey, I read a book about this

00:20:31.533 --> 00:20:33.673
<v Moshe>the other day. It was a really good book, and this is what it said.

00:20:33.993 --> 00:20:37.573
<v Moshe>And that may be a conversation that could take 10, 15 minutes.

00:20:37.953 --> 00:20:41.733
<v Moshe>But now I had access to the world's information, and I could spend four weeks

00:20:41.733 --> 00:20:45.913
<v Moshe>sitting there because I'd researched this thing to the point that it was unresearchable,

00:20:45.993 --> 00:20:48.733
<v Moshe>and I could tell you everything at all about it.

00:20:49.373 --> 00:20:53.633
<v Moshe>So communication was facilitated because now I could communicate with my hyperfocus.

00:20:54.073 --> 00:20:56.533
<v Moshe>But of course, no, but not everyone wanted to hear about this.

00:20:56.913 --> 00:21:01.833
<v Moshe>You had the development of the text-to-speech thing that we mentioned.

00:21:02.473 --> 00:21:04.213
<v Moshe>Stephen Hawking was most known

00:21:04.213 --> 00:21:07.413
<v Moshe>besides all of his research on space and whatever, which was wonderful.

00:21:08.193 --> 00:21:10.373
<v Leah>Space and whatever. I love you.

00:21:10.533 --> 00:21:14.033
<v Moshe>For his robotic monotonous voice.

00:21:14.333 --> 00:21:16.293
<v Leah>Not initially, but yes. Yes.

00:21:16.793 --> 00:21:22.733
<v Moshe>But text-to-speech has advanced significantly, especially to this day,

00:21:22.893 --> 00:21:29.973
<v Moshe>with the innovation of text-to-speech tools, including AI again, where you have,

00:21:30.673 --> 00:21:36.513
<v Moshe>not exact, but a very close approximation of human speech, right down to cadences,

00:21:37.213 --> 00:21:41.093
<v Moshe>pauses, natural inflection when you're asking the question.

00:21:41.393 --> 00:21:45.593
<v Leah>So I want to stop you there too, because there's something about that that's interesting to me.

00:21:45.833 --> 00:21:49.253
<v Leah>You are very impressed with the way the speech sounds. I am not.

00:21:49.373 --> 00:21:51.473
<v Leah>I can tell. Well, why do you think that is?

00:21:52.293 --> 00:21:54.353
<v Moshe>Because it has that uncanny valley thing.

00:21:54.653 --> 00:21:55.093
<v Leah>Yeah, you think?

00:21:55.533 --> 00:22:01.753
<v Moshe>Yeah. Like, it sounds good, but it doesn't sound exact.

00:22:02.153 --> 00:22:08.273
<v Leah>It sounds like I'm speaking to an Isaac Asimov creation. Right.

00:22:09.233 --> 00:22:13.473
<v Moshe>And I mean, we can talk about the Turing test and everything when we talk about AI. But the thing is...

00:22:14.598 --> 00:22:19.698
<v Moshe>From the timeline project that took weeks to the internet that took a couple

00:22:19.698 --> 00:22:23.498
<v Moshe>of days to high-speed internet, which was significant.

00:22:24.158 --> 00:22:31.318
<v Moshe>Then you start to get into the innovation of the facilitation of communication.

00:22:32.698 --> 00:22:37.638
<v Moshe>There are books that are written about how to communicate better.

00:22:37.838 --> 00:22:42.478
<v Moshe>And you could sit there and you can read a book and you can study it And you

00:22:42.478 --> 00:22:45.378
<v Moshe>can do all these self-help stuff, and you can become a better public speaker.

00:22:45.498 --> 00:22:49.278
<v Moshe>Or you could join, you know, Touchmasters Club or whatever.

00:22:49.498 --> 00:22:52.918
<v Moshe>And you could get really good at communicating, or you could join Debate Club.

00:22:53.678 --> 00:22:59.038
<v Moshe>Or you could go on the internet and say, how can I write a better cover letter?

00:22:59.158 --> 00:23:01.378
<v Moshe>How can I communicate better?

00:23:01.518 --> 00:23:04.458
<v Moshe>How can I resolve this issue? So it was a search engine.

00:23:04.718 --> 00:23:07.618
<v Moshe>And then when Google sort of cornered the market on search engines,

00:23:07.818 --> 00:23:09.078
<v Moshe>you could just Google it.

00:23:09.178 --> 00:23:13.318
<v Moshe>And everything was sort of limited. Because remember the old web crawlers? Yes.

00:23:13.678 --> 00:23:17.218
<v Moshe>You didn't know what you were going to get, and sometimes it was completely irrelevant.

00:23:17.358 --> 00:23:19.658
<v Leah>No, it sometimes came up in alphabetical order, like a weird order.

00:23:19.818 --> 00:23:22.558
<v Leah>Google was the first one to sort things by relevance,

00:23:22.578 --> 00:23:24.578
<v Moshe>I think. Exactly. Or hits.

00:23:24.778 --> 00:23:27.038
<v Leah>Like, so many people looked at this, so look at this one. Yeah.

00:23:27.338 --> 00:23:31.638
<v Moshe>So you knew that the top link, generally, unless it was sponsored...

00:23:31.638 --> 00:23:32.438
<v Leah>Was the best.

00:23:32.558 --> 00:23:34.818
<v Moshe>...was the best link or closest to what you were trying to find.

00:23:34.818 --> 00:23:41.378
<v Moshe>So you could look up how to be a better public speaker, how to show empathy better.

00:23:42.138 --> 00:23:44.698
<v Moshe>And I mean, I'm skipping years and years and years.

00:23:44.918 --> 00:23:46.498
<v Leah>Obviously, but we don't have to like micro.

00:23:47.118 --> 00:23:48.818
<v Moshe>But then we get to...

00:23:49.398 --> 00:23:50.078
<v Leah>Skip Linux altogether.

00:23:50.318 --> 00:23:59.918
<v Moshe>Right. Then we get to AI. Now, AI was theoretical for the majority of our life.

00:24:00.358 --> 00:24:03.698
<v Leah>I mean, so everybody was like all paranoid and everybody would think,

00:24:03.818 --> 00:24:06.538
<v Leah>well, as soon as we give computers the ability to think, they're going to take

00:24:06.538 --> 00:24:09.078
<v Leah>over the world. So far, that hasn't been the case.

00:24:10.178 --> 00:24:14.518
<v Moshe>Yes, but that is because human intervention limits.

00:24:16.498 --> 00:24:21.298
<v Moshe>Because, and again, I'm going to be a bit blue here and that's okay because

00:24:21.298 --> 00:24:22.638
<v Moshe>it's my show and I can do what I want.

00:24:22.638 --> 00:24:28.678
<v Moshe>But when you allow AI to be more mainstream and not theoretical,

00:24:29.058 --> 00:24:34.058
<v Moshe>because they talked about AI in like the 50s and 60s and 70s and all that stuff, Isaac Asimov.

00:24:34.338 --> 00:24:38.578
<v Leah>Yeah, there's a really cool movie series called Terminator that's based on it. Right.

00:24:39.038 --> 00:24:46.918
<v Moshe>So I remember there was right around the, I would say the last 10 years,

00:24:47.118 --> 00:24:52.578
<v Moshe>probably about 10 years, you used to be able to download an AI friend.

00:24:52.858 --> 00:24:57.498
<v Moshe>The AI friend craze started. And if you go online to your app store or Apple

00:24:57.498 --> 00:25:02.858
<v Moshe>store, whatever, and you just write AI, not now because you'll get the current

00:25:02.858 --> 00:25:05.838
<v Moshe>ones, but if you write AI in like 2010 or 2015,

00:25:06.298 --> 00:25:09.338
<v Moshe>you would end up with AI friends.

00:25:09.518 --> 00:25:13.198
<v Moshe>And it was very rudimentary and it was very much...

00:25:14.796 --> 00:25:18.556
<v Moshe>Guided by your input. It didn't learn that well.

00:25:18.796 --> 00:25:22.816
<v Moshe>And people could download these apps on their phone that they could talk to

00:25:22.816 --> 00:25:27.096
<v Moshe>and they could make basic conversation. It was very clear that it was not a

00:25:27.096 --> 00:25:30.736
<v Moshe>person, but it was great for people that just wanted to talk.

00:25:30.896 --> 00:25:32.016
<v Leah>That makes me really sad.

00:25:32.736 --> 00:25:39.176
<v Moshe>And then the AI friend ended up falling out of fashion over the last,

00:25:39.356 --> 00:25:45.056
<v Moshe>I would say, two to three to four years because unfortunately,

00:25:45.536 --> 00:25:47.336
<v Moshe>if you know what Rule 34 is,

00:25:47.856 --> 00:25:53.616
<v Moshe>it affected AI because if you give someone the opportunity to talk to someone

00:25:53.616 --> 00:25:58.596
<v Moshe>and you allow someone to have an AI friend, I'll let you fill in the blanks.

00:25:58.836 --> 00:26:04.276
<v Moshe>So people stopped using that and a lot of these manufacturers had the gumption

00:26:04.276 --> 00:26:05.856
<v Moshe>to actually be surprised.

00:26:06.296 --> 00:26:08.956
<v Leah>No, they just repackaged them and remarketed them.

00:26:09.116 --> 00:26:09.816
<v Moshe>So they said, They.

00:26:09.816 --> 00:26:13.976
<v Leah>Literally remarketed them as AI boyfriend, AI girlfriend, and they had like

00:26:13.976 --> 00:26:15.656
<v Leah>a Sprite with sexy clothes on.

00:26:15.776 --> 00:26:21.236
<v Moshe>So you had – They remarketed them. Because they created these apps quite innocently,

00:26:21.236 --> 00:26:26.576
<v Moshe>I might add, to allow people to have a friend that they could talk to and dress

00:26:26.576 --> 00:26:29.716
<v Moshe>up and communicate with and ask about their interests.

00:26:30.256 --> 00:26:35.336
<v Moshe>And the people just wanted to, you know, do stuff with them.

00:26:35.436 --> 00:26:38.776
<v Moshe>So they're like, okay, all right, I see what's happening here.

00:26:40.156 --> 00:26:45.796
<v Moshe>One of the AI companies actually had to pull their app.

00:26:45.996 --> 00:26:49.856
<v Moshe>And when they reintroduced it, they actually had it so that you were not allowed

00:26:49.856 --> 00:26:53.176
<v Moshe>to, like it was very PG type of thing.

00:26:53.556 --> 00:26:57.396
<v Moshe>But then others, as you said, decided that they were going to sort of lean into that.

00:26:57.776 --> 00:27:03.696
<v Moshe>And then I would say probably only in the last couple of years,

00:27:03.896 --> 00:27:08.596
<v Moshe>one or two years ago, I think we were actually, this was before Aaliyah.

00:27:08.776 --> 00:27:12.576
<v Moshe>This was probably when we were still in Montreal, even.

00:27:13.256 --> 00:27:14.736
<v Leah>Yeah, ChatGPT started to be a thing.

00:27:15.536 --> 00:27:23.076
<v Moshe>ChatGPT came out, and I just heard about it, and it was marketed as the first

00:27:23.076 --> 00:27:28.956
<v Moshe>multifunctional AI, and nobody had ever seen anything like it before.

00:27:29.096 --> 00:27:32.056
<v Leah>I have a really, to be honest with you, I've only ever really used it to create

00:27:32.056 --> 00:27:35.036
<v Leah>graphics and pictures that I send to people for silly stuff.

00:27:35.036 --> 00:27:41.816
<v Moshe>That is also a newer innovation, because ChatGPT was marketed as a fully functional

00:27:41.816 --> 00:27:43.176
<v Moshe>AI, and nobody could believe it.

00:27:43.216 --> 00:27:43.816
<v Leah>It's totally not.

00:27:43.896 --> 00:27:46.776
<v Moshe>Nobody could believe it. South Park did an episode about it.

00:27:47.076 --> 00:27:49.516
<v Moshe>You know you've made it when South Park makes fun of it.

00:27:49.956 --> 00:27:55.696
<v Moshe>And people would use ChatGPT for creating tech to send to people,

00:27:55.956 --> 00:27:58.876
<v Moshe>for creating letters to send to people, for writing stories.

00:27:59.256 --> 00:28:02.576
<v Moshe>And instead of going online and Googling.

00:28:04.129 --> 00:28:08.589
<v Moshe>Bedroom, bedtime story for my child about bears.

00:28:09.049 --> 00:28:12.489
<v Moshe>And you could find a list of stories that had been written. You could go to

00:28:12.489 --> 00:28:20.429
<v Moshe>ChatDBT and say, please write a 2000 word story to tell my five year old about teddy bears.

00:28:20.609 --> 00:28:26.329
<v Moshe>And ChatDBT would write a story for you. And it just blew people's minds that

00:28:26.329 --> 00:28:27.709
<v Moshe>there was this much functionality.

00:28:28.329 --> 00:28:33.989
<v Moshe>And then of course, people noticeably decided that it would be used for nefarious purposes.

00:28:34.249 --> 00:28:38.809
<v Moshe>So people used it to write their book reports and their projects and their essays and stuff.

00:28:38.929 --> 00:28:42.569
<v Leah>Yeah, so that's where I have a problem because coming from a pretty serious

00:28:42.569 --> 00:28:47.969
<v Leah>academic background, if I forgot to cite a source in college,

00:28:48.569 --> 00:28:51.689
<v Leah>I would have gotten a zero and maybe been kicked out of my program.

00:28:51.969 --> 00:28:54.909
<v Leah>So that's really, for me, that's pretty icky.

00:28:55.369 --> 00:28:59.609
<v Moshe>So JGBT was, I believe, one of the first, if not the first, to allow,

00:28:59.609 --> 00:29:05.669
<v Moshe>basically enter what you want and it will actually give it to you in a format that is reasonable.

00:29:06.069 --> 00:29:11.189
<v Moshe>And then people started developing the ChatGPT and they created,

00:29:11.389 --> 00:29:13.089
<v Moshe>and this is the innovation of prompts.

00:29:13.809 --> 00:29:19.849
<v Moshe>So people actually made good money developing prompts that allowed you to engineer

00:29:19.849 --> 00:29:21.849
<v Moshe>what you want a ChatGPT to do.

00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:26.209
<v Moshe>And you'll see it because I use it for work, which I'm going to get to in a minute.

00:29:26.909 --> 00:29:32.949
<v Moshe>And it's just huge paragraphs of things that you're telling ChatGPT to do.

00:29:33.309 --> 00:29:37.949
<v Moshe>And then ChatGPT was quickly overshadowed. It's still around, obviously.

00:29:38.189 --> 00:29:42.409
<v Moshe>It's still doing fine. But once ChatGPT sort of set the precedent,

00:29:42.709 --> 00:29:44.469
<v Moshe>everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

00:29:44.629 --> 00:29:48.569
<v Moshe>You ended up with Microsoft having an AI and Google having an AI.

00:29:48.789 --> 00:29:53.949
<v Moshe>And now Elon Musk created an AI for Twitter and all that stuff.

00:29:54.669 --> 00:29:57.129
<v Moshe>But here's the kicker.

00:29:57.889 --> 00:30:02.889
<v Moshe>People figured out, once they got over the whole, you know, cheating on your

00:30:02.889 --> 00:30:07.069
<v Moshe>homework thing, that AI could be used to person.

00:30:07.429 --> 00:30:13.209
<v Moshe>And this brings me back to the topic of the show, which is, as an autistic,

00:30:13.749 --> 00:30:19.589
<v Moshe>we are really good at communicating about things that we like.

00:30:19.749 --> 00:30:26.169
<v Moshe>And we are really good at learning things that interest us. But what we're not

00:30:26.169 --> 00:30:29.669
<v Moshe>very good at is personing in a lot of ways.

00:30:29.889 --> 00:30:33.989
<v Moshe>The old adage that, that autistics have no empathy, which is completely untrue.

00:30:34.509 --> 00:30:37.629
<v Moshe>So the neurodiverse community is.

00:30:38.824 --> 00:30:47.904
<v Moshe>Has discovered, or did discover, that AI can be used to communicate with.

00:30:48.564 --> 00:30:51.724
<v Moshe>So, and I mean, people use this for everything.

00:30:52.004 --> 00:30:56.124
<v Moshe>Like the bro dudes would be like, my girlfriend just sent me this task.

00:30:56.224 --> 00:30:58.144
<v Moshe>What's a cute thing that I could text her back?

00:30:58.184 --> 00:31:02.704
<v Leah>I'm sure also like middle managers and professionals use it to craft emails and text.

00:31:02.744 --> 00:31:09.124
<v Moshe>Jobs. Yeah, for sure. Like work sites have jumped on this. It was only about six or seven months ago.

00:31:09.244 --> 00:31:10.724
<v Leah>Polish your resume, stuff like that.

00:31:10.904 --> 00:31:14.864
<v Moshe>Yeah, it was six or seven months ago that I went to a job interview,

00:31:14.864 --> 00:31:19.724
<v Moshe>and one of the jobs was writing stuff to customers.

00:31:20.164 --> 00:31:26.624
<v Moshe>And they said, we use ChatGPT. What we do is we ask ChatGPT to comb their resume

00:31:26.624 --> 00:31:30.024
<v Moshe>and write a list of skills that they've listed because we don't have time to

00:31:30.024 --> 00:31:32.984
<v Moshe>read a thousand resumes. So we have ChatGPT just read it for us.

00:31:33.604 --> 00:31:40.624
<v Moshe>And when we write an email back to them, we have ChatGPT write an email with

00:31:40.624 --> 00:31:44.844
<v Moshe>this heading and this body and this conclusion and this signature.

00:31:45.024 --> 00:31:49.364
<v Moshe>And then we just spit it out and write it to them. And it just saves time.

00:31:49.924 --> 00:31:52.724
<v Moshe>I use that for work, the job that I do.

00:31:52.884 --> 00:31:56.844
<v Leah>That's a good use of it. So using it for work, using it to save yourself time,

00:31:57.044 --> 00:32:00.824
<v Leah>especially, you know, when you're trying to increase your functionality at work,

00:32:01.024 --> 00:32:06.624
<v Leah>that's great. But there are some really, really kind of backdoor nefarious uses for it.

00:32:06.704 --> 00:32:09.264
<v Leah>So you brought up the whole cheating on your homework thing. That's one.

00:32:09.784 --> 00:32:14.824
<v Leah>And you use it for work a lot. And you use it, like I said, to craft social

00:32:14.824 --> 00:32:20.484
<v Leah>media posts and send emails to people because you communicate with people a

00:32:20.484 --> 00:32:22.884
<v Leah>lot, whether it be for the podcast or other things.

00:32:23.064 --> 00:32:23.464
<v Moshe>Yes.

00:32:23.664 --> 00:32:27.264
<v Leah>Just to polish, I guess, your own thoughts or to make sure that the thoughts

00:32:27.264 --> 00:32:29.324
<v Leah>that are in your head are coming out. Polish is good.

00:32:30.044 --> 00:32:32.804
<v Moshe>Completely do from whole cloth is less good.

00:32:33.804 --> 00:32:35.024
<v Leah>Because... Now, that was your idea.

00:32:35.364 --> 00:32:35.684
<v Moshe>Right.

00:32:35.904 --> 00:32:39.584
<v Leah>I'm pretty sure your AI is like, dude, you can stop talking to me now.

00:32:39.704 --> 00:32:42.764
<v Leah>You're right. I want this and I want this and I want this. It's all your ideas.

00:32:43.024 --> 00:32:49.884
<v Moshe>Right. And this is the difference. Polished. So we did a... I'll talk about what happened.

00:32:50.024 --> 00:32:54.224
<v Moshe>The last meeting that I had at work, they're trying to teach us to express more

00:32:54.224 --> 00:32:57.204
<v Moshe>empathy in our communication with customers because empathy is a big thing in

00:32:57.204 --> 00:32:58.924
<v Moshe>customer service and I work in customer service.

00:32:59.424 --> 00:33:02.964
<v Moshe>So they said, okay, so I want you to do a chart based on this email,

00:33:02.964 --> 00:33:06.544
<v Moshe>and I want you to pick out what the customer is thinking, what the customer

00:33:06.544 --> 00:33:11.284
<v Moshe>is feeling, why the customer is upset, and what you can do to resolve the issue.

00:33:11.864 --> 00:33:14.844
<v Moshe>And I want you to write it out, and I want to see what you come up with.

00:33:15.024 --> 00:33:18.744
<v Moshe>And everyone did their own spin on it. But, of course, what I did was I literally

00:33:18.744 --> 00:33:23.884
<v Moshe>copied word for word what he said and threw it into an AI. And the AI gave me a chart.

00:33:24.424 --> 00:33:27.084
<v Moshe>This is what the customer was thinking. This is what the customer was feeling.

00:33:27.224 --> 00:33:30.064
<v Moshe>This is what the customer is concerned about. This is what you can do about

00:33:30.064 --> 00:33:35.524
<v Moshe>it And they said did you just ask the AI To come up with this for you I'm like yeah.

00:33:36.619 --> 00:33:44.019
<v Moshe>Interesting, because one of the things that you would think is basically human

00:33:44.019 --> 00:33:46.479
<v Moshe>is the concept of empathy.

00:33:46.659 --> 00:33:49.979
<v Moshe>And we could do a whole episode on empathy, and I think we have actually.

00:33:50.439 --> 00:33:58.219
<v Moshe>But the number one thing that I use AI for at work is adding empathy to emails.

00:33:58.499 --> 00:34:00.959
<v Moshe>A customer will write in with a complaint.

00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:04.819
<v Moshe>And I will generally, the way I do it is I will write a response.

00:34:05.399 --> 00:34:08.239
<v Moshe>But then I will take that response, I will throw it into an AI,

00:34:08.539 --> 00:34:11.659
<v Moshe>I will say, polish this response and add more empathy.

00:34:11.819 --> 00:34:16.519
<v Moshe>And it'll rewrite the response and use empathetic phrases like,

00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:20.559
<v Moshe>I understand your fear, your concern, I see that you're upset,

00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:22.979
<v Moshe>and I'm really sorry for the inconvenience.

00:34:23.059 --> 00:34:29.459
<v Moshe>Like, it has phrases that are known in communication to express empathy.

00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:37.799
<v Moshe>But you can take it a step further. And this is where we talk about the innovation of the AI therapist.

00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:44.639
<v Moshe>Because therapy, not to poo-poo on therapists because it's a good living,

00:34:44.939 --> 00:34:49.519
<v Moshe>but therapy is very much about helping the person to understand what they're thinking.

00:34:50.319 --> 00:34:53.679
<v Moshe>Therapists, in a lot of ways, are not really meant to tell the person what to

00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:57.279
<v Moshe>do. They're meant to help them realize what they should be doing.

00:34:57.579 --> 00:35:02.819
<v Moshe>And that AI has capitalized like that, like nothing else. because essentially

00:35:02.819 --> 00:35:06.239
<v Moshe>the AI therapist is, tell me what your problem is.

00:35:06.479 --> 00:35:11.339
<v Moshe>And it has access to the internet and it has access to the DSMs and it has access

00:35:11.339 --> 00:35:16.199
<v Moshe>to mental illness and it has access to communication because it's an AI.

00:35:16.779 --> 00:35:20.919
<v Moshe>And you could say, I got into an argument with my wife, my girlfriend,

00:35:21.019 --> 00:35:22.219
<v Moshe>my boyfriend, my husband, whatever.

00:35:22.699 --> 00:35:25.879
<v Moshe>And then the AI therapist will go, I'm really sorry to hear that.

00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.159
<v Moshe>What was it about? Well, I said this and he said that.

00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:34.339
<v Moshe>Well, what I'm seeing is that you are not being sensitive enough to their needs

00:35:34.339 --> 00:35:38.119
<v Moshe>and they were not understanding what you were saying. Is that correct?

00:35:39.279 --> 00:35:44.099
<v Moshe>And you would end up reaching a conclusion where the AI, in fact,

00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:46.039
<v Moshe>didn't actually tell you anything new.

00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:52.859
<v Moshe>It just helped you to realize what was going on because you're an idiot, I guess. But that is...

00:35:52.859 --> 00:35:54.279
<v Leah>But this thing is hard to drive.

00:35:54.479 --> 00:35:55.459
<v Moshe>But this is AI.

00:35:56.139 --> 00:35:58.739
<v Leah>But when I say this thing, I mean our brains. So...

00:35:59.682 --> 00:36:05.942
<v Leah>We're running like, you know, 21st century technology on hardware that's 5 million years old.

00:36:06.182 --> 00:36:09.882
<v Leah>So it's sometimes hard to navigate having a human brain.

00:36:10.062 --> 00:36:14.742
<v Moshe>It is. But when you're talking to a neurodiverse person, you're talking to somebody

00:36:14.742 --> 00:36:17.402
<v Moshe>who struggles to express themselves.

00:36:17.962 --> 00:36:23.422
<v Moshe>It depends. Some autistics are wonderful at just speaking to people and they

00:36:23.422 --> 00:36:24.502
<v Moshe>struggle in other areas.

00:36:24.662 --> 00:36:28.762
<v Moshe>But a lot of communication issues do manifest themselves when it comes to AI.

00:36:29.402 --> 00:36:35.782
<v Moshe>AI, when it comes to life. And the issue is where you have access to AI,

00:36:36.162 --> 00:36:37.822
<v Moshe>particularly in written communication.

00:36:38.702 --> 00:36:43.982
<v Moshe>So you could either do a preemptive strike and say something to the tone of,

00:36:44.562 --> 00:36:47.062
<v Moshe>today I'm feeling really upset about this issue.

00:36:47.402 --> 00:36:51.342
<v Moshe>What are some productive ways that I can resolve this with my partner,

00:36:51.442 --> 00:36:56.702
<v Moshe>with my spouse or whatever, that will allow them to feel like I understand where

00:36:56.702 --> 00:37:00.342
<v Moshe>they're coming from, and it doesn't make me come across as too selfish.

00:37:00.582 --> 00:37:05.622
<v Moshe>And the AI will help you with that. That's a very complex and general thing.

00:37:06.542 --> 00:37:12.342
<v Leah>It is, but it's my second pitfall, to be honest with you, because there's a few things now.

00:37:13.122 --> 00:37:14.622
<v Moshe>You could literally say.

00:37:15.042 --> 00:37:19.062
<v Leah>Craft a text that will make this girl like me. Craft a text that will let this

00:37:19.062 --> 00:37:20.582
<v Leah>girl think I think these things of her.

00:37:20.862 --> 00:37:23.822
<v Leah>She wrote this to me. Why is she upset at me? explain it.

00:37:24.302 --> 00:37:28.682
<v Leah>And these are skills that to have a real life relationship, you have to actually

00:37:28.682 --> 00:37:30.202
<v Leah>have. You can't just pretend

00:37:30.202 --> 00:37:30.762
<v Moshe>To have them.

00:37:31.142 --> 00:37:35.002
<v Leah>Because a couple of things, you're misleading the other person to thinking you

00:37:35.002 --> 00:37:35.462
<v Moshe>Know what they.

00:37:35.462 --> 00:37:39.642
<v Leah>Feel and you know what you're doing and that you're capable of maintaining this

00:37:39.642 --> 00:37:41.022
<v Leah>type of communication when you're not.

00:37:43.682 --> 00:37:47.362
<v Leah>And what happens when you're face to face with them and they expect for you

00:37:47.362 --> 00:37:49.122
<v Leah>to know everything and you don't have your AI.

00:37:49.442 --> 00:37:54.922
<v Leah>So when it comes to interpersonal relationships, the AI thing kind of scares me a bit.

00:37:55.222 --> 00:37:58.802
<v Moshe>Well, because it's not instantaneous. And who's to say that maybe it won't,

00:37:58.802 --> 00:38:00.082
<v Moshe>you know, be more instantaneous.

00:38:00.322 --> 00:38:04.162
<v Leah>Right. You sound like Serenot de Bergerac on the text and then she meets you

00:38:04.162 --> 00:38:05.162
<v Leah>and you're like, I'm Steve.

00:38:05.422 --> 00:38:08.522
<v Leah>Like she's going to notice. And it's misleading.

00:38:09.162 --> 00:38:14.482
<v Moshe>It's very misleading. And I remember when ChatGPT first came out and maybe because

00:38:14.482 --> 00:38:18.682
<v Moshe>of, or maybe in congruence with the South Park episode about JackGPT.

00:38:19.642 --> 00:38:23.462
<v Moshe>There was actually an update to JackGPT where if you went to it and said,

00:38:23.962 --> 00:38:29.122
<v Moshe>please write a romantic text to send to my girlfriend, JackGPT would say, I don't know her.

00:38:29.382 --> 00:38:34.122
<v Moshe>I can help you to better craft something that you want to say,

00:38:34.242 --> 00:38:38.402
<v Moshe>but I can't tell you what to say to make her happy because I don't know who she is.

00:38:38.562 --> 00:38:42.502
<v Leah>Exactly. And that would be the correct response, to be honest.

00:38:43.884 --> 00:38:47.544
<v Leah>But that scares me. And also another aspect of that scares me,

00:38:47.624 --> 00:38:50.604
<v Leah>and it has to do with neurodivergent people, definitely, but neurotypicals,

00:38:50.744 --> 00:38:55.984
<v Leah>anybody, is, you know, the ability to be like, okay, so I want to say this,

00:38:56.064 --> 00:38:57.084
<v Leah>make it sound like I care.

00:38:57.624 --> 00:39:03.704
<v Leah>And again, when you're talking to a customer or when you're talking to your boss, it's fine.

00:39:03.904 --> 00:39:07.284
<v Leah>But when you're in an interpersonal, either romantic relationship or,

00:39:07.484 --> 00:39:10.504
<v Leah>you know, I don't know, parent-child relationship or brother-sister,

00:39:10.604 --> 00:39:13.004
<v Leah>whatever, somebody you're supposed to be interpersonal with,

00:39:13.724 --> 00:39:18.724
<v Leah>The problem is when people behave like they don't care, it's because at least

00:39:18.724 --> 00:39:20.784
<v Leah>on some level, you don't care.

00:39:20.964 --> 00:39:22.744
<v Moshe>Exactly. And you have to care.

00:39:23.024 --> 00:39:27.224
<v Leah>So just, again, being able to fake the fact that you care is not helping anyone

00:39:27.224 --> 00:39:29.164
<v Leah>or moving the relationship along.

00:39:29.784 --> 00:39:36.764
<v Moshe>It's going to come out. Right. And AI has hopefully adapted a little bit to that,

00:39:36.984 --> 00:39:44.684
<v Moshe>where if I were to go to Google Gemini or ChatGPT or Grok or Copilot or any

00:39:44.684 --> 00:39:49.584
<v Moshe>of the AIs that are out there, perplexity, and I were to say something as general as,

00:39:49.824 --> 00:39:54.464
<v Moshe>please, please write an email to my wife to show her that I care about her.

00:39:55.124 --> 00:39:58.024
<v Moshe>What it should come up with, in fact, a lot of the time it does,

00:39:58.224 --> 00:40:02.504
<v Moshe>is I don't know your wife, but here are some things you might want to consider

00:40:02.504 --> 00:40:03.564
<v Moshe>when you're talking to her.

00:40:04.024 --> 00:40:11.604
<v Moshe>Or, you know, if you try to craft, if you try to ask it essentially to predict

00:40:11.604 --> 00:40:16.844
<v Moshe>what someone is going to like or not like, at this point it should tell you,

00:40:17.004 --> 00:40:18.564
<v Moshe>I don't know this person.

00:40:18.564 --> 00:40:24.684
<v Moshe>And if you tell them, like Google Gemini has a thing now where you can actually give it prompts.

00:40:25.104 --> 00:40:29.184
<v Moshe>Like, I live in this place and I have this job and this is who my wife is.

00:40:29.484 --> 00:40:33.924
<v Moshe>And it'll remember. Like, it'll say, I recall you mentioned that your wife liked to receive flowers.

00:40:34.244 --> 00:40:37.624
<v Moshe>So if she's upset at you, maybe you should consider getting her flowers.

00:40:37.844 --> 00:40:40.244
<v Moshe>But that's because you told it that this is what she likes.

00:40:40.464 --> 00:40:41.004
<v Leah>That's the same thing.

00:40:41.642 --> 00:40:43.722
<v Leah>Advice that a guy friend would tell you.

00:40:43.822 --> 00:40:44.322
<v Moshe>Exactly.

00:40:44.682 --> 00:40:50.582
<v Leah>To be honest. And that's also fine. It's really to the level of when they're

00:40:50.582 --> 00:40:55.662
<v Leah>taking over communication to the point where you're able to fake it is a problem.

00:40:56.342 --> 00:41:00.502
<v Moshe>Right. And there's a difference between polish this email so it sounds more professional.

00:41:00.822 --> 00:41:06.202
<v Moshe>And please take this, you know, insensitive thought and make it look like I care.

00:41:06.782 --> 00:41:11.082
<v Moshe>Because you can email it, but when, like you said, when you're face-to-face

00:41:11.082 --> 00:41:13.282
<v Moshe>with the person, it's clear you don't.

00:41:13.602 --> 00:41:17.042
<v Moshe>What you can do in those cases, in fact, what maybe you should do,

00:41:17.922 --> 00:41:23.882
<v Moshe>is ask, you know, the AI to allow you to understand a situation.

00:41:24.522 --> 00:41:27.982
<v Moshe>A lot of them will allow you, especially the AI therapist variety.

00:41:28.082 --> 00:41:30.382
<v Leah>Yeah, like I said this, why would somebody be upset about that?

00:41:30.462 --> 00:41:33.302
<v Leah>Right. That's more appropriate. That is a little bit better. But that requires a lot.

00:41:33.402 --> 00:41:35.882
<v Leah>It requires for you to want to know. It requires for you to care.

00:41:35.882 --> 00:41:37.642
<v Leah>And again, it's the caring aspect.

00:41:38.122 --> 00:41:41.282
<v Leah>And do you have to care about every client you talk to on the phone? No.

00:41:41.682 --> 00:41:43.602
<v Leah>No, not really. Do you have to care about your boss? I mean,

00:41:43.722 --> 00:41:47.542
<v Leah>you do. You have a good relationship with your boss, but not everybody does. You don't.

00:41:48.062 --> 00:41:51.862
<v Leah>Do you have to care about the random lady at the checkout counter? Not necessarily.

00:41:52.362 --> 00:41:57.302
<v Leah>But like your first degree people, you really do need to actually care.

00:41:57.602 --> 00:42:01.902
<v Moshe>And I think either the last episode or maybe the one before, quite possibly.

00:42:02.202 --> 00:42:06.522
<v Moshe>It's been a while, unfortunately. We talked about the...

00:42:07.695 --> 00:42:12.675
<v Moshe>The problems that a lot of autistics, including myself, have with small talks

00:42:12.675 --> 00:42:16.835
<v Moshe>and banal pleasantries.

00:42:17.075 --> 00:42:23.915
<v Moshe>And actually how small talk is not undesirable because it's fake.

00:42:24.075 --> 00:42:26.095
<v Moshe>It's desirable because it's fake.

00:42:26.195 --> 00:42:26.955
<v Leah>Everybody knows that.

00:42:26.955 --> 00:42:28.195
<v Moshe>Because people expect it.

00:42:28.295 --> 00:42:29.975
<v Leah>It's a joke that everybody's in on.

00:42:30.255 --> 00:42:30.815
<v Moshe>Exactly.

00:42:31.015 --> 00:42:31.615
<v Leah>That's the point.

00:42:32.055 --> 00:42:36.095
<v Moshe>I had a person who called me the other day. And they did the thing that I've

00:42:36.095 --> 00:42:40.055
<v Moshe>mentioned many times, even on this show, that I hate. Hey, how are you doing?

00:42:41.555 --> 00:42:45.595
<v Moshe>And to my credit, this time I was actually prepared to respond.

00:42:45.935 --> 00:42:47.915
<v Moshe>But when I opened my mouth, they just kept talking.

00:42:48.135 --> 00:42:50.475
<v Leah>Yes, they do that. But I also have a canned answer for that.

00:42:50.955 --> 00:42:52.555
<v Leah>Right away, I go, I'm good. How are you?

00:42:53.135 --> 00:42:56.455
<v Moshe>Right. You toss the ball back. I'm good. I'm great. I'm fine.

00:42:56.615 --> 00:43:00.675
<v Moshe>I'm wonderful. I'm amazing. I'm just peachy. I still like that one.

00:43:00.795 --> 00:43:04.035
<v Leah>Yeah, but that's not effective. I'm great. How are you? is much more effective

00:43:04.035 --> 00:43:07.235
<v Leah>because it gets them talking and moves everything.

00:43:07.855 --> 00:43:10.095
<v Moshe>Right. Because you want to give them something that they expect.

00:43:10.495 --> 00:43:15.755
<v Moshe>I use the word peachy because it allowed people to be caught off guard.

00:43:15.955 --> 00:43:18.975
<v Moshe>And in that, I was actually shooting myself in the foot. Yes.

00:43:19.115 --> 00:43:20.555
<v Moshe>Because then they would pause and go peachy.

00:43:20.675 --> 00:43:21.975
<v Leah>You're making your call take longer.

00:43:22.475 --> 00:43:25.515
<v Moshe>What do you mean peachy? How are you peachy? Explain what peachy means.

00:43:25.755 --> 00:43:28.295
<v Moshe>Because it's an old expression. People don't use it quite as much.

00:43:28.395 --> 00:43:32.695
<v Moshe>So I would accomplish far more by just saying, as you said, I'm great. How are you? Good?

00:43:33.015 --> 00:43:36.415
<v Moshe>Great. Let's continue talking now because that's what's expected.

00:43:36.875 --> 00:43:40.735
<v Moshe>Just like when someone expresses ping pong. Yeah.

00:43:41.135 --> 00:43:42.615
<v Leah>Conversations are a lot like ping pong.

00:43:42.775 --> 00:43:45.535
<v Moshe>They really are. It's like playing tennis or ping pong or badminton,

00:43:45.535 --> 00:43:46.815
<v Moshe>whatever your favorite sport is.

00:43:47.467 --> 00:43:52.567
<v Moshe>It's essentially, and I actually used to approach conversations like that because

00:43:52.567 --> 00:43:53.967
<v Moshe>I struggled with communicating.

00:43:54.267 --> 00:44:00.007
<v Moshe>So I put in my mind that this conversation, like any conversation, is a game of tennis.

00:44:00.387 --> 00:44:04.407
<v Moshe>The person talks. What they expect is me to respond.

00:44:04.647 --> 00:44:08.507
<v Moshe>And once I've completed my response, I've hit the ball back to them.

00:44:08.687 --> 00:44:11.967
<v Moshe>I can stop talking now. And now they have to respond.

00:44:11.967 --> 00:44:15.287
<v Leah>Except it's awkward and uncanny valley, like you said, because you have to ask

00:44:15.287 --> 00:44:18.187
<v Leah>another question in order to elicit another response from them.

00:44:18.427 --> 00:44:20.847
<v Leah>It's actually really complicated when I think about it.

00:44:21.127 --> 00:44:23.527
<v Leah>It's one of those flowchart opportunities, actually.

00:44:24.007 --> 00:44:24.867
<v Moshe>And it's a hard game.

00:44:24.967 --> 00:44:30.287
<v Leah>You need to respond to what they said appropriately and then ask another inquisitive.

00:44:30.427 --> 00:44:31.987
<v Moshe>Right. Otherwise, the game is over.

00:44:32.147 --> 00:44:34.027
<v Leah>Otherwise, they won't bat it back to you, etc.

00:44:34.327 --> 00:44:38.467
<v Moshe>Right. How are you doing? I'm fine. How are you? I'm great. What did you do today?

00:44:38.487 --> 00:44:40.107
<v Leah>My toe hurts. Actually, how does that make you feel?

00:44:40.107 --> 00:44:42.527
<v Moshe>You would just kind of go back and forth.

00:44:42.527 --> 00:44:46.827
<v Leah>Oh, my toe hurt one time. What happened? But you have to always follow it up

00:44:46.827 --> 00:44:48.767
<v Leah>with a question and be like, okay, your turn.

00:44:49.087 --> 00:44:54.427
<v Moshe>And then you have to discuss how to effectively end a conversation.

00:44:54.887 --> 00:44:57.607
<v Moshe>And I struggle with that. In fact, if you listen to our show,

00:44:57.787 --> 00:45:02.987
<v Moshe>the last part of the show is me mentioning that autistic struggle with ending things.

00:45:03.367 --> 00:45:06.967
<v Moshe>So I just kind of do the thing that when you're not around that I do,

00:45:07.147 --> 00:45:10.407
<v Moshe>which is just kind of trail off, nod my head, and then walk away.

00:45:10.807 --> 00:45:14.967
<v Moshe>If I was more, you know, if I acted more like the typical, I guess,

00:45:15.147 --> 00:45:17.427
<v Moshe>autistic, I'd be like, this conversation is over.

00:45:17.547 --> 00:45:20.687
<v Moshe>I'm going to walk away now. But that would be seen as rude. And you should.

00:45:20.687 --> 00:45:23.327
<v Leah>But again, it's one of those, it's a joke everyone's in on. You're supposed

00:45:23.327 --> 00:45:24.547
<v Leah>to kind of make an excuse.

00:45:25.207 --> 00:45:30.227
<v Leah>Well, I got to get going. Anyway, you know, I've got to pick up my kids. So I'll see you later.

00:45:30.487 --> 00:45:34.107
<v Leah>Or actually, your sister had a great one. She always had dogs at home.

00:45:34.587 --> 00:45:37.647
<v Leah>So she could leave a situation. I've got to go feed the dogs.

00:45:37.827 --> 00:45:38.847
<v Leah>They're not going to feed themselves.

00:45:39.367 --> 00:45:41.047
<v Leah>Like it was a good excuse to leave situations.

00:45:41.127 --> 00:45:46.107
<v Moshe>Right. But sometimes I'll be caught in these like preemptive strike conversations

00:45:46.107 --> 00:45:51.007
<v Moshe>where somebody will corner me and want to talk to me and I won't have like my

00:45:51.007 --> 00:45:53.567
<v Moshe>Rolodex of responses ready.

00:45:53.827 --> 00:46:00.087
<v Moshe>So I'll have to like write a script for this conversation because I haven't prepared for it.

00:46:00.187 --> 00:46:03.707
<v Leah>So I think what we're saying here is, first of all, any of the AIs who want

00:46:03.707 --> 00:46:06.227
<v Leah>to sponsor us, we're talking about you. So that's one thing.

00:46:06.807 --> 00:46:09.227
<v Leah>And the second thing is I think they need to come up with like,

00:46:09.327 --> 00:46:13.207
<v Leah>you know how they had Google glasses? They need a Google earbud that listens

00:46:13.207 --> 00:46:14.507
<v Leah>to everything you say and says,

00:46:14.807 --> 00:46:18.927
<v Moshe>Say this instead. Wasn't there a Shakespearean play where there's someone like

00:46:18.927 --> 00:46:20.547
<v Moshe>in the bushes feeding lines to someone?

00:46:20.547 --> 00:46:21.767
<v Leah>Sarno de Bergerac. Yeah, exactly.

00:46:22.507 --> 00:46:27.547
<v Moshe>Again, not big on that. But AI is actually really good for that.

00:46:27.667 --> 00:46:30.827
<v Moshe>And again, you would think that this show is being sponsored by an AI.

00:46:30.967 --> 00:46:32.087
<v Moshe>It's not, but we're welcome to.

00:46:32.127 --> 00:46:34.527
<v Leah>I mean, hi, any of you really.

00:46:34.527 --> 00:46:39.827
<v Moshe>So, and I've used it for this actually, you know, if you go to Google Gemini

00:46:39.827 --> 00:46:44.627
<v Moshe>or chat GPT or one of the other AIs, you can actually write what are good.

00:46:45.631 --> 00:46:50.111
<v Moshe>Conversation openers. What are good things to say when you want to end a conversation?

00:46:50.451 --> 00:46:53.971
<v Moshe>And this, again, takes me back to the topic of the show or the episode.

00:46:55.011 --> 00:47:00.711
<v Moshe>Autistic people love AI because they can ask questions that if you asked a normal

00:47:00.711 --> 00:47:03.351
<v Moshe>person, they'd be like, what are you, crazy? What are you asking.

00:47:03.351 --> 00:47:06.291
<v Leah>Me this for? So there are questions that you can ask, for example,

00:47:06.471 --> 00:47:11.131
<v Leah>me, but you're not going to ask everybody on the street. They're going to be like, you're 40, man.

00:47:11.511 --> 00:47:15.451
<v Moshe>Yeah, go to ChatGPT or Gemini or Copilot or whatever and just write,

00:47:15.651 --> 00:47:19.471
<v Moshe>go online right now while you're listening and write the following prompt.

00:47:19.731 --> 00:47:26.291
<v Moshe>Please provide five examples of sentences that can be used to end a conversation,

00:47:27.131 --> 00:47:31.871
<v Moshe>or alternatively you can add more meat to it and go, I often struggle with how

00:47:31.871 --> 00:47:36.351
<v Moshe>to leave a conversation because I don't like to just walk away.

00:47:36.531 --> 00:47:41.471
<v Moshe>What are some things that I can say that will come across as polite and professional

00:47:41.471 --> 00:47:45.911
<v Moshe>and not rude that I can say to someone when I want a conversation to be over.

00:47:46.171 --> 00:47:49.151
<v Moshe>And it will provide you a list of, I don't know what they are,

00:47:49.311 --> 00:47:51.131
<v Moshe>I haven't done it, but they will provide you.

00:47:51.131 --> 00:47:53.791
<v Leah>If you're a job, it's easy because you come up with canned answers,

00:47:53.791 --> 00:47:55.831
<v Leah>but in the wild, it's a little bit harder.

00:47:56.571 --> 00:48:00.991
<v Moshe>You have to kind of know the person and you can, you know, you can use the,

00:48:01.011 --> 00:48:07.791
<v Moshe>you can use the, the, the examples that you've kind of grown up with.

00:48:08.491 --> 00:48:14.991
<v Moshe>Louis C.K. did an act where he was talking about smoking cannabis or whatever

00:48:14.991 --> 00:48:19.931
<v Moshe>and he felt that he was too overwhelmed so he just screamed at the crowd,

00:48:20.071 --> 00:48:21.391
<v Moshe>I'm leaving, and then walk away.

00:48:21.851 --> 00:48:27.251
<v Moshe>Which you can absolutely do. It might get some weird looks but if you're interested

00:48:27.251 --> 00:48:31.091
<v Moshe>in walking away, you could simply just yell out I'm leaving now and walk away.

00:48:31.311 --> 00:48:34.771
<v Moshe>You might not be able to talk to those people again but it'd be a really fun

00:48:34.771 --> 00:48:35.811
<v Moshe>way to leave a conversation.

00:48:36.691 --> 00:48:41.671
<v Leah>I mean, Oh, okay. So if you have enough money, you could be considered eccentric instead of weird.

00:48:42.151 --> 00:48:42.551
<v Moshe>Right.

00:48:42.771 --> 00:48:44.391
<v Leah>But it doesn't work for everyone.

00:48:45.111 --> 00:48:49.851
<v Moshe>So in general, I'll wrap things up real nicely.

00:48:50.271 --> 00:48:56.251
<v Moshe>AI is a great boon for neurodiverse people, provided that you use it effectively

00:48:56.251 --> 00:49:00.811
<v Moshe>as a way of assisting in communication rather than replacing.

00:49:01.071 --> 00:49:04.231
<v Leah>Yeah, but like everything else, it can have pitfalls, as we said. Right.

00:49:04.551 --> 00:49:08.251
<v Moshe>So I want to take the opportunity before we wrap up, once again,

00:49:08.371 --> 00:49:11.491
<v Moshe>just to thank all the people who still listen to the show.

00:49:12.571 --> 00:49:16.451
<v Moshe>Unfortunately, the regularity hasn't been as good as it could be,

00:49:16.531 --> 00:49:19.151
<v Moshe>and I'd love to be able to promise that it'll pick up, and I hope it will.

00:49:19.491 --> 00:49:23.151
<v Moshe>But obviously, you're welcome to go back to the very beginning and listen to all the shows.

00:49:23.471 --> 00:49:27.651
<v Moshe>We still have ads that come up periodically throughout each episode,

00:49:27.651 --> 00:49:31.111
<v Moshe>and if you listen to the ad, if you throw a little bit of money our way.

00:49:32.551 --> 00:49:37.431
<v Moshe>We'd love to have sponsors. Right now we do have the sponsor of Arc Therapeutic.

00:49:38.151 --> 00:49:41.391
<v Moshe>And they are a wonderful company.

00:49:41.991 --> 00:49:47.551
<v Moshe>And the Now You Know 10 coupon code has been extended until next spring.

00:49:47.731 --> 00:49:53.831
<v Moshe>And you get 10% off any order with Arc Therapeutic. I think you can use it as many times as you want.

00:49:54.311 --> 00:49:59.991
<v Moshe>So if you go on to Arc Therapeutic and place an order, you can get 10% off with

00:49:59.991 --> 00:50:02.071
<v Moshe>the coupon code Now You Know 10.

00:50:02.551 --> 00:50:05.411
<v Moshe>All capitals, and it's the number 1010.

00:50:06.371 --> 00:50:13.151
<v Moshe>Thank you very much for everyone who is still listening, for everyone who has listened.

00:50:13.551 --> 00:50:17.711
<v Moshe>I think the last time I checked, we were almost at 9,000 downloads.

00:50:17.931 --> 00:50:19.071
<v Moshe>That's amazing. Or something like that.

00:50:19.871 --> 00:50:23.491
<v Moshe>32 episodes, I think this will be, maybe 33. I have lost count at this point.

00:50:23.951 --> 00:50:29.351
<v Moshe>I'm really glad for all of the support, and we definitely appreciate everyone

00:50:29.351 --> 00:50:35.971
<v Moshe>who wants to write in, either on Facebook or email, which is contact us at nowyouknowanautistic.com.

00:50:36.151 --> 00:50:40.451
<v Moshe>If you want to financially tip us, we do have a PayPal, which does work.

00:50:40.791 --> 00:50:42.891
<v Moshe>I've been told at times.

00:50:43.271 --> 00:50:48.711
<v Moshe>So you're welcome to go there. The link is on the website, which is nowyouknowanautistic.podbean.com.

00:50:48.871 --> 00:50:51.311
<v Moshe>Of course, thank you very much to our hosting company, Podbean,

00:50:51.531 --> 00:50:57.751
<v Moshe>which has still been so wonderful in hosting us still after all of this time.

00:50:57.751 --> 00:51:05.591
<v Moshe>Um, and yeah, so we'd like to, to do another episode, you know,

00:51:05.751 --> 00:51:07.531
<v Moshe>in a week's time and keep up the schedule.

00:51:07.791 --> 00:51:11.731
<v Moshe>Uh, we, we did a, we did a recording a couple of weeks ago with,

00:51:11.851 --> 00:51:13.691
<v Moshe>with Dr. Temple Grandin, which was wonderful.

00:51:14.571 --> 00:51:16.051
<v Leah>She discusses earlier intervention.

00:51:16.151 --> 00:51:20.691
<v Moshe>So you could listen to that episode again. And, uh, it was, it was just wonderful

00:51:20.691 --> 00:51:27.851
<v Moshe>to do. and we do have some guests lined up in the new year and 2025 to do.

00:51:28.851 --> 00:51:31.411
<v Moshe>And yeah, so Leia, do you have any closing thoughts?

00:51:32.011 --> 00:51:33.131
<v Leah>No, I think I'm good.

00:51:33.851 --> 00:51:39.391
<v Moshe>All right, well, thank you for listening and we will hopefully see you next week.

00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:47.760
<v Music>

00:51:47.751 --> 00:51:52.491
<v Moshe>Well, that's the end of our episode and Now You Know One Autistic just a little bit better.

00:51:53.051 --> 00:51:57.251
<v Moshe>Now, something you may not know about some autistics is that we often struggle

00:51:57.251 --> 00:51:59.051
<v Moshe>with ending social interactions.

00:52:00.271 --> 00:52:01.231
<v Moshe>So, Leia?

00:52:01.951 --> 00:52:06.591
<v Leah>It's okay, Moshe. I'll take care of it. Thank you for listening to Now You Know

00:52:06.591 --> 00:52:08.231
<v Leah>One Autistic. See you next week.