Adult Autism Diagnosis: Love, Laughter, and Late-Blooming Discoveries

Episode Title: Adult Autism Diagnosis: Love, Laughter, and Late-Blooming Discoveries

Episode Number: 20

Release Date: Aug 5, 2024

Duration: 50:56

In this episode of Now You Know One Autistic, Moshe and Leah are joined by special guests Kate and Clark, another neurodiverse couple navigating the complexities of adult autism diagnosis. They share their personal journeys of late diagnosis, the challenges they've faced, and the strategies they've developed to bridge communication gaps and strengthen their relationships. The conversation explores the impact of autism on relationships, work, and social interactions, offering valuable insights and fostering understanding.

Key Takeaways:

• Late Diagnosis: The guests and hosts discuss their experiences with late autism diagnosis, highlighting the challenges and benefits of receiving a diagnosis as an adult.
• Communication and Relationships: The episode delves into the communication difficulties that can arise in neurodiverse relationships and offers practical tips for navigating these challenges.
• Executive Functioning: The guests and hosts share their strategies for managing executive functioning challenges, such as organization, planning, and time management.

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• The importance of self-advocacy in seeking an autism diagnosis.
• The impact of autism on romantic relationships and friendships.
• Practical strategies for improving communication and understanding in neurodiverse relationships.
• Tips for managing executive functioning challenges.
• The importance of celebrating neurodiversity and fostering acceptance.

Quotes:

• "I'm still an adult man. Like, you don't have to instantly see me as a five-year-old." - Moshe
• "Autistics show love in completely different ways than we do." - Leah
• "The realistic perspective is that at home, you will be loved, you will be accepted, you will be appreciated, you will be boosted." - Moshe

Resources & Links:

• Neurodiverse Couple on Instagram: @NeurodiverseCouple
• SEO Keywords: autism, adult diagnosis, neurodiversity, relationships, communication, executive functioning, late-blooming, self-advocacy

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Subscribe & Review:

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the podcast and click the Like button! Your feedback helps us reach more listeners and improve the show.

Transcript:

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Moshe: Hi, I'm Moshe, and I'm autistic.

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Leah: I'm Leah, and I'm boring.

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Welcome to the now, you know, one autistic

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podcast.

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Moshe: The opinions expressed in this podcast
reflect one autistic and one layout and don't

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necessarily reflect the entire autistic
community.

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Leah: Let's get to it.

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Hi, Moshe.

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Moshe: Hi, Leah.

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Leah: How are you, honey?

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Moshe: I'm wonderful.

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How are you today?

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Leah: Good. So what are we doing today?

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Moshe: So today we're going to do an episode
that I think we discussed it last week, sort

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of anticipated that we would have our special
guests on, which we'll introduce in just a

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second on adult autistics and autistic adults.

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As everyone knows from our journey, I was

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diagnosed very late in life, and we had quite
an experience with that, and we thought it

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would be wonderful to have another couple on
where we could discuss our shared experiences.

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We had that wonderful show that we did two or
three weeks ago with the amazing Adam and

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Becca.

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Leah: Yeah.

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Moshe: So today we have some very special
guests on.

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Leah: Yeah. So instead of having a mirror of
us, we have.

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What's an opposite of a mirror?
We have the same.

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We have a congruent couple on you.

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Moshe: I'm asking us.

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So we'll let them introduce themselves.

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Take it away.

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Kate and Clark.

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Kate: Hi, I'm Kate.

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Clark: I'm Clark

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Moshe: Hi, Kate.

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Leah: Hello.

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Moshe: Tell us a little bit about yourselves.

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Kate: I'm Kate. I just turned 42 weeks ago,
so.

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Moshe: Woohoo.

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Clark: Happily.

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Kate: Birthday. Thank you.

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And we have two children, ages eight and four,

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that feel like they're going on 30 and 21.

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We've been married for twelve years.

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Clark: Twelve years.

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Kate: Twelve years, yeah.

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We've been married for twelve years.

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And we've known each other for almost 15.

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And then.

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All right, you have to take it away and you
have to talk about being neurodiverse.

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Clark: My name's Clark.

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I'm almost 40.

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I was diagnosed with autism when I was 35.

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Still a little new to it.

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It was like right before.

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I think it was right before I turned 36.

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It was in 2020.

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Moshe: Yeah.

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Clark: So I've.

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I've been trying to figure out what that means

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for me and how that has affected past jobs and
relationships and things like that for the

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past few years.

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Moshe: We're very excited to be able to talk
to another couple that has some of the same

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experiences that we do.

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Leah: So, Moshe, just to remind the listeners,
when were you diagnosed?

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Moshe: So I was diagnosed three years ago.

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Leah: You were 40. So a bit longer, actually.

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Moshe: Yeah. There was a suspicion for a long
time that I might be on the spectrum, and we

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we got to talking about it, and one day I just
turned to you and I was like, I think I'd like

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a diagnosis.

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So we pursued it and pursued it and pursued

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it, and we'll sort of get into the specifics
of it because it was quite a journey.

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But in the end, I managed to get, like, a bona
fide diagnosis.

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And the rest, as they say, is history.

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Leah: I think we should touch real quick on
what it was that or what the impetus was for

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each of you to look at getting a diagnosis,
because it's actually really uncommon for an

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adult to get diagnosed at 35, let alone 40.

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Moshe: Essentially, I'd spent my entire life
being the weird kid.

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I spent my entire life being the kid who did
the strange things.

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And this was way, way, way back in the 1980s,
and we had very little in the way of

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diagnosing neurodivergency.

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I mean, of course, there was things like

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autism, and I think at the time, mild autism,
as it's called today, was called, I think,

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Asperger's or Asperger's, depending on who you
talk to.

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And what happened with me was I was just the
weird kid, I was the shy kid, and those were

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the labels that they used.

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There was always things coming up.

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Leah: What was your emphasis as an adult,
especially one of 40, to want to seek a

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diagnosis?
Well, it wasn't actually for me.

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I pushed you more for your ADHD diagnosis
because I found it much more interruptive to

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our life in your autism.

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Moshe: Well, I found my autism to be a lot
more all encompassing.

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And when we talked about how you had some
experience with autism, so I thought maybe I

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was autistic.

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And we talked about it with my regular doctor.

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And the answer that I got was, you don't have
to.

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It's such a long process, and it's so
needless.

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And, I mean, you have a job and a family and
children and stuff.

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What's it going to do for you, really?
Just, like, what is having a label going to

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do?
So I thought, you know what?

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It's going to do more than you think.

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And if I have to explain it to you, then maybe

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you don't understand what it's been like being
me.

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So we pursued him, and even when I was finally
able to find a doctor who was willing to give

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me an assessment.

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Leah: Yeah, he told you to find the spot of
right behind your forehead.

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And that will.

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I still don't know what that was supposed to

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do.

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Moshe: So I had an appointment with a
psychiatrist, and I gave him my list of

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symptoms and everything.

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And I talked him into it.

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I literally had to talk him into it.

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Leah: They're members.

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Moshe: And eventually he was like, fine, I'll
give you the diagnostics.

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So he went through everything, and I.

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Leah: Remember his diagnosis of you.

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And it was a male in his forties with an

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unkempt beard and appearance, a robotic
response.

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It wasn't very glowing.

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An unkempt man in his forties with a robotic

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response or something.

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Moshe: Yes. So I said, all right, well, that's
a great start, I think, because you really

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want a doctor who's going to brag on you.

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And we went through the different things, and

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he kept telling me, I don't really know what
you want me to do with this, but if you want

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me to say that you're autistic, then bam,
you're autistic.

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And I said, wow, thank you very much for that.

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And I said to leah at the time, I said, it's

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kind of like going to your fiance and saying,
so you want to get married?

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I guess we could if you really want to, kind
of.

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It's very unromantic, but it's like, wow, you
just got a diagnosis that answered all of your

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life's questions, and you practically had to
twist my arm to do it.

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But it did.

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It was very emotional for me because we ended

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up being like, wow, I guess this is something
for me.

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And it meant a lot of kept asking me, they
kept saying, what does it matter?

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Leah: I don't think I'm a good one to answer
that.

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It didn't matter to me because when we first
got back together as adults, he said, I think

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I'm autistic.

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I said, yeah, that makes sense.

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When we just moved on with life, we didn't do
the diagnostic or anything.

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Clark: Yours sounds really horrible.

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Mine was a lot easier than that.

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I don't know if it was a product of the
pandemic on why it was easier, but that's why.

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That's why I went to get assessed, because I
think before that, you know, we were, you

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know, you go about your normal life and
you're, you know, you go off to work and

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you're home for, you know, just a little bit,
a few hours that you spent, you know, you get

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to spend together.

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But at that time, we were spending every

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minute of every day with each other.

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I think part of the stress of that, the

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dysregulating part of, like, that's a
completely different life and change and daily

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activities, but also the fear and all those
type things, I think that that combined with

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being together.

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Twenty four seven.

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The ratcheted upness of how I was feeling and
then being around Kate all day, then she kind

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of impressed me.

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Like, is there something else?

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At one point, you'd seen something, and it was
like, what type of disorder was it?

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Nonverbal learning disorder.

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Leah: Yeah. One of my best friends had that.

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And I think you were diagnosed with that as

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well.

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I was, yeah.

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So generalized.

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You're probably autistic term.

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We have really strong beliefs about that.

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Moshe: It's like pre autism.

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Leah: Yeah.

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Moshe: Like, you better be careful.

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You might be pre autistic.

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You might have to alter your lifestyle.

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Kate: And I also think, like, adjustment
disorders make it like that's your pre autism

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diagnosis.

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Leah: Anything that really has to do with any
learning disability, any global delay, any

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language, anything is usually kind of a pre
indicator.

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They're dipping your toe.

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Clark: Yeah. So then I just, you know, we made
an appointment and went and I was kind of

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shocked at how quickly the psychiatrist just
talking to me.

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He was like, I don't think you have that.

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I think you're autistic.

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I don't think you have the nonverbal learning.

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Leah: Did they give you the Aidos and all
that?

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Like, all the paperwork to fill out?
And then they give, like, Kate all that

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paperwork to fill out?
No, Canada's really strict.

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Moshe: They interviewed me.

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They interviewed you?

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It was like a whole.

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It was like a double, you know.

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Are you sure that all these things.

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He's talking a lot about things.

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What do you think?

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Kate: What an exclusive club.

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Clark: Yeah.

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Kate: In Canada.

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Clark: Yeah.

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Moshe: They let.

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Clark: They let you into the diagnosis here a
lot easier.

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She was like, yeah, you look and sound like
you're autistic.

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Thanks.

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Moshe: Yeah, I appreciate that.

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Leah: I mean, that was nicer than robot man.

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But essentially, that's what they were saying.

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Moshe: Unkempt robot man.

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He's like, you're not looking at me and you're

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not.

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Clark: I was like, okay, all right.

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Moshe: So then you were autistic.

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How did the diagnosis make you feel, Clark?

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Clark: It was kind of weird.

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It made me.

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It made a lot of things make sense.

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But at the same time, then it was like, well,

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how do you know?
How do I go from here?

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And then I think the.

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Well, besides learning how to cope with

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things, like, for my life, the biggest thing
externally is, like, who do I tell?

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Do I tell somebody?
It almost felt like, because there's a huge

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stigma attached to it.

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I don't know about in every country of the

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world.

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But even.

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00:09:55,632 --> 00:09:58,968
I mean, even the other day, I was talking to a
friend and we used to work together.

223
00:09:59,024 --> 00:10:00,328
And he was talking about someone.

224
00:10:00,464 --> 00:10:01,792
He was like, oh, were you there when that

225
00:10:01,816 --> 00:10:04,980
autistic guy worked with us?
You know, in my head, I'm like, me?

226
00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:06,908
I'm like, no. And then I was like, he's not
talking about me.

227
00:10:06,924 --> 00:10:11,080
I was like, no. And then he went on to talk
about it, you know?

228
00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:12,148
So it's.

229
00:10:12,204 --> 00:10:12,868
It's.

230
00:10:13,044 --> 00:10:17,428
Yeah, so I think that it's almost like
realizing something about yourself.

231
00:10:17,484 --> 00:10:22,332
But then also, I don't know what to liking it
to, but, you know, it's like, who do I share

232
00:10:22,396 --> 00:10:24,172
this information with?
Do I?

233
00:10:24,236 --> 00:10:24,972
And I had some.

234
00:10:25,036 --> 00:10:26,956
I can't remember if it was a counselor who was

235
00:10:26,988 --> 00:10:31,632
like, you might not want to be cautious with
who you tell because some kind of, like, a

236
00:10:31,656 --> 00:10:32,496
paranoid thing with them.

237
00:10:32,528 --> 00:10:34,784
They were like, if you tell someone, you know,

238
00:10:34,832 --> 00:10:38,416
they may be try to use it against you in
whatever way, you know, that you're not

239
00:10:38,448 --> 00:10:41,960
understanding or, you know, try to twist
things and manipulate things.

240
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,232
It was like, oh, okay.

241
00:10:43,296 --> 00:10:44,360
So that.

242
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,952
Leah: That shouldn't be true, but it is true.

243
00:10:47,016 --> 00:10:49,936
Unfortunately, Moshe and I always discuss most

244
00:10:49,968 --> 00:10:53,976
of the time before he discloses to somebody
that we know mutually, because he's like,

245
00:10:54,128 --> 00:10:56,860
should I. Do you think it was a good idea?
Is it necessary?

246
00:10:57,410 --> 00:11:01,442
Because the last person you disclosed to is
actually one of the managers at work, and she

247
00:11:01,466 --> 00:11:03,658
ended up handling it very badly.

248
00:11:03,794 --> 00:11:06,274
She did complained about him sounding deadpan

249
00:11:06,322 --> 00:11:09,066
or something, and then he said, well, listen,
I'm autistic sometimes.

250
00:11:09,098 --> 00:11:10,586
I can't always mask.

251
00:11:10,778 --> 00:11:13,034
And then she took that as an opportunity to

252
00:11:13,082 --> 00:11:16,674
pull him aside and explain literally
everything like he was a two year old.

253
00:11:16,762 --> 00:11:18,650
Moshe, you have to stay in the chat.

254
00:11:18,770 --> 00:11:21,770
Moshe, can you ask me intelligent questions,

255
00:11:21,810 --> 00:11:24,370
please?
To the point where he had to tell our boss,

256
00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:25,426
like, I'm an adult.

257
00:11:25,458 --> 00:11:26,816
You can't talk to me like that.

258
00:11:26,898 --> 00:11:30,812
Moshe: And we talked about it a little bit,
actually, with Adam and Becca is that for

259
00:11:30,836 --> 00:11:36,044
whatever reason, a lot of people, even, like
these days, they hear the word autism and they

260
00:11:36,092 --> 00:11:42,876
start thinking of the r word, and that is
always something that is going to come up.

261
00:11:42,908 --> 00:11:49,164
And that happens almost as an unconscious
thing, where I received several complaints

262
00:11:49,212 --> 00:11:53,268
from my manager at work, and she said, you're
always sounding so deadpan.

263
00:11:53,324 --> 00:11:57,642
You don't sound like you care, and you sound
so bored, and you sound so unserious.

264
00:11:57,836 --> 00:12:01,290
And sometimes you say things that are not
appropriate.

265
00:12:01,590 --> 00:12:06,350
So I talked about it with Leah, and I said,
well, she didn't think I should tell her.

266
00:12:06,430 --> 00:12:09,822
Leah: Yeah, in my defense, I said no, because
I don't think she's mature enough to handle

267
00:12:09,846 --> 00:12:09,982
it.

268
00:12:10,006 --> 00:12:11,238
Moshe: But I told her.

269
00:12:11,374 --> 00:12:14,886
And based on that, she instantly decided that

270
00:12:14,918 --> 00:12:17,590
that was an invitation to start treating me
like I was five.

271
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:18,774
Leah: You were a project Mary.

272
00:12:18,822 --> 00:12:22,742
Moshe: Now, you know, Moshe, when you ask a
question, you have to sit there and wait for

273
00:12:22,766 --> 00:12:23,278
the answer.

274
00:12:23,334 --> 00:12:25,110
You can't just go off and do something else.

275
00:12:25,150 --> 00:12:26,766
You know that right?
Now.

276
00:12:26,798 --> 00:12:27,534
You know that when.

277
00:12:27,582 --> 00:12:29,150
Now, you said that thing.

278
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:33,702
Now, I don't think you meant it that way, but
let me let you listen to that, and you tell me

279
00:12:33,726 --> 00:12:34,334
what you think.

280
00:12:34,382 --> 00:12:37,334
That it was very patronizing, and it was very

281
00:12:37,382 --> 00:12:42,574
infantilizing, and it was like, I'm still an
adult man.

282
00:12:42,622 --> 00:12:45,694
Like, you don't have to instantly see me as a
five year old.

283
00:12:45,862 --> 00:12:47,550
Leah: So he's excellent at his job.

284
00:12:47,630 --> 00:12:49,438
So you get promoted above everybody else.

285
00:12:49,494 --> 00:12:53,016
But it does seem to be, like this woman thing
where they.

286
00:12:53,088 --> 00:12:55,912
They get offended by your lack of.

287
00:12:55,976 --> 00:12:57,632
What's the good word for that?

288
00:12:57,736 --> 00:12:58,328
Moshe: Tact.

289
00:12:58,464 --> 00:13:01,600
Leah: Yeah, I get offended by your directness.

290
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:02,880
Moshe: Yes, my bluntness.

291
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,520
Leah: And then when they find out, they want
to, like, mom, you.

292
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:06,768
It's a really weird thing.

293
00:13:06,864 --> 00:13:08,496
Whereas men will look at it as a good

294
00:13:08,528 --> 00:13:09,136
characteristic.

295
00:13:09,168 --> 00:13:10,496
They're like, yeah, moshe gets it done.

296
00:13:10,568 --> 00:13:11,700
This is direct.

297
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:13,256
Moshe: I try to.

298
00:13:13,368 --> 00:13:16,144
I try to disclose as little as possible for.

299
00:13:16,192 --> 00:13:17,852
For the same reason that you.

300
00:13:18,016 --> 00:13:19,828
That you mentioned, clark, because a lot of

301
00:13:19,844 --> 00:13:21,972
people, there is a stigma attached.

302
00:13:21,996 --> 00:13:23,876
Leah: To it in everybody's detriments.

303
00:13:23,948 --> 00:13:26,668
That current diagnostic criteria only came out

304
00:13:26,684 --> 00:13:30,452
in 2015, just in time for our son to be
diagnosed.

305
00:13:30,516 --> 00:13:32,996
So that's actually another thing that's pretty
sad.

306
00:13:33,068 --> 00:13:38,372
Moshe: When I was, I think, ten or eleven, my
mother took me to a social worker, and she

307
00:13:38,396 --> 00:13:39,828
says, he doesn't pay attention in class.

308
00:13:39,884 --> 00:13:41,844
He's always focusing on these little things.

309
00:13:41,972 --> 00:13:46,736
He'll sit by himself and, like, sift sand
through his fingers and play with, like,

310
00:13:46,808 --> 00:13:48,660
thing, like, blocks and whatever.

311
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,072
And he never wants to take part in what's

312
00:13:51,096 --> 00:13:52,380
going on in the classroom.

313
00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:55,088
And they talked to me, and then they had the

314
00:13:55,104 --> 00:13:56,992
bright idea of saying, oh, you know what?
You know.

315
00:13:57,056 --> 00:13:59,584
You know what's going on, right?
He's gifted.

316
00:13:59,752 --> 00:14:00,544
He's a gifted.

317
00:14:00,592 --> 00:14:01,360
He's a prodigy.

318
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,832
He's a. He's a gifted.

319
00:14:03,016 --> 00:14:04,376
He's a prodigy.

320
00:14:04,528 --> 00:14:06,696
So my mom said, oh, well, that makes sense.

321
00:14:06,848 --> 00:14:07,712
And they sent me.

322
00:14:07,776 --> 00:14:10,894
They sent me to a. To a camp for gifted
children.

323
00:14:11,072 --> 00:14:16,746
And I walked in, and there was this kid half
my age doing calculus on the board and this

324
00:14:16,778 --> 00:14:21,082
person quoting Shakespeare, and this guy
walked up and asked me what my famous.

325
00:14:21,146 --> 00:14:24,506
What my favorite philosophical theorem was.

326
00:14:24,698 --> 00:14:27,378
And I was just kind of looking around going I

327
00:14:27,394 --> 00:14:28,074
like animals.

328
00:14:28,122 --> 00:14:28,730
Do you like animals?

329
00:14:28,770 --> 00:14:29,750
I like animals.

330
00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:30,730
Leah: Toast.

331
00:14:30,770 --> 00:14:31,346
Do you want toast?

332
00:14:31,378 --> 00:14:33,110
Moshe: Do you want toast?
I could make toast.

333
00:14:33,570 --> 00:14:35,770
My mom lets me make grilled cheese sometime.

334
00:14:35,930 --> 00:14:39,478
So after a few days of that, they called my

335
00:14:39,494 --> 00:14:41,878
mom, and they said, you know, I don't think
he's gifted.

336
00:14:42,054 --> 00:14:45,270
And, I mean, and then she was like, well, I
don't know what's wrong.

337
00:14:45,310 --> 00:14:49,358
Leah: Then I'd like to talk to Clark about
that assumption that every autistic has a

338
00:14:49,374 --> 00:14:50,230
superpower.

339
00:14:50,390 --> 00:14:53,690
Like, the autism comes with a super whatever.

340
00:14:54,070 --> 00:14:56,334
So people will go around going, oh, what's
your.

341
00:14:56,422 --> 00:14:58,478
What's your strength?
Are you good at math?

342
00:14:58,574 --> 00:15:00,102
Math?
Are you good at math?

343
00:15:00,286 --> 00:15:05,006
And it doesn't make it any better that our son
does have, like, a couple of autistic

344
00:15:05,038 --> 00:15:05,710
superpowers.

345
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:08,890
And then Moshe's like, I don't have any.

346
00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:10,890
Where's mine?

347
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:13,810
Moshe: I'm unkempt, robotic man.

348
00:15:14,390 --> 00:15:18,294
Leah: Let's talk about reframing past
experiences through your diagnosis.

349
00:15:18,342 --> 00:15:19,558
Let's start with Clark.

350
00:15:19,734 --> 00:15:21,342
Moshe: Right?
So when I was.

351
00:15:21,526 --> 00:15:25,342
When I. When I got my autistic diagnosis, I
went.

352
00:15:25,526 --> 00:15:32,168
I went back sort of throughout my life to all
those things that I mentioned, and suddenly I

353
00:15:32,184 --> 00:15:34,660
was like, oh, that's what was going on.

354
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,552
So I wanted to ask you, Clark, once you got

355
00:15:37,576 --> 00:15:42,048
the diagnosis, did you ever sort of rethink
some of things that have happened in your past

356
00:15:42,104 --> 00:15:44,980
and connected to that?

357
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,672
Clark: Yeah, just from what the person was
talking to me about and the main stuff that he

358
00:15:50,696 --> 00:15:57,770
brought up when he was doing the diagnosis, I
think the main things were like relationships,

359
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,902
romantic relationships, or, like, how many
cues I misread and, you know, things like that

360
00:16:03,926 --> 00:16:07,606
where I'm like, oh, I see how I, you know,
responded wrong in that.

361
00:16:07,638 --> 00:16:11,502
Or like, oh, I think that person wasn't
interested in me, and I was just reading it

362
00:16:11,526 --> 00:16:12,090
wrong.

363
00:16:12,430 --> 00:16:14,318
And then from there, it went on to work

364
00:16:14,374 --> 00:16:16,454
relationships or work interactions.

365
00:16:16,542 --> 00:16:19,806
You know, where I had a previous job where my

366
00:16:19,838 --> 00:16:26,176
manager said that, you know, a lot of your co
workers think that you think you're better

367
00:16:26,208 --> 00:16:26,624
than them.

368
00:16:26,672 --> 00:16:27,832
I was like, what?

369
00:16:27,896 --> 00:16:28,624
Leah: Oh, yeah.

370
00:16:28,752 --> 00:16:31,860
Clark: And I think it was because I'm not as
talkative.

371
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,936
You know, like, I'll engage and have
conversations, but I don't normally make small

372
00:16:37,008 --> 00:16:40,040
talk if I. There's nothing to talk about now.

373
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,440
I've kind of tried to do that just to fit in

374
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,816
better with everybody else, but at the time,
you know, I was like, why do I need to.

375
00:16:47,848 --> 00:16:48,400
I don't know why.

376
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,048
But before I found out my diagnosis, why do I

377
00:16:51,064 --> 00:16:55,032
need to make small talk when there's nothing
to talk about, you know, just stuff like that

378
00:16:55,096 --> 00:17:01,536
or just sort of going in and doing my job and,
you know, getting it done and going home and

379
00:17:01,568 --> 00:17:06,900
not having, you know, friendships at work that
carry it outside of work and things like that.

380
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,496
Leah: You struggle with that, too.

381
00:17:09,568 --> 00:17:11,216
Work friends are work friends, and you don't

382
00:17:11,248 --> 00:17:12,296
talk to them outside of work.

383
00:17:12,328 --> 00:17:19,608
Moshe: And, yeah, it's not even necessarily
because I don't want friends or that I don't

384
00:17:19,664 --> 00:17:22,456
necessarily like the people that I've worked
with.

385
00:17:22,568 --> 00:17:23,820
It's mostly just.

386
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,640
It never occurred to me to ask them to do

387
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:28,920
things outside of work.

388
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,992
Leah: You got one of those double whammies at
your job.

389
00:17:32,136 --> 00:17:36,784
In BC, before we got back together, there was
a girl at work who probably wanted to date

390
00:17:36,832 --> 00:17:39,620
you, and you were like, she's a work person.

391
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,792
Moshe: She was just somebody that we talked
all the time.

392
00:17:42,856 --> 00:17:44,040
She was on the next cubicle.

393
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,802
We chatted a lot, and then it was just like,

394
00:17:47,826 --> 00:17:48,778
well, days over.

395
00:17:48,834 --> 00:17:49,178
Bye.

396
00:17:49,234 --> 00:17:49,978
And that was it.

397
00:17:50,074 --> 00:17:51,298
And that happened a lot.

398
00:17:51,394 --> 00:17:52,106
Kate: I know.

399
00:17:52,258 --> 00:17:54,802
I remember even when we were together going

400
00:17:54,866 --> 00:17:56,258
out, this was before we had kids.

401
00:17:56,314 --> 00:17:57,786
I don't even know if we were married yet, but

402
00:17:57,858 --> 00:18:04,746
I remember we were at a bar, and this woman
was definitely flirting with Clark, and I knew

403
00:18:04,778 --> 00:18:08,498
he had no idea that that was what was
happening, so I just kind of let it play out.

404
00:18:08,554 --> 00:18:13,322
But she was touching his arm, and they were
talking about business, and Clark was, like,

405
00:18:13,426 --> 00:18:15,752
someone to talk about business with.

406
00:18:15,946 --> 00:18:17,720
Was so excited.

407
00:18:18,060 --> 00:18:21,756
And then, you know, she eventually walked
away, and I, of course, giggled.

408
00:18:21,788 --> 00:18:27,244
And Clark had no concept that he was being hit
on and flirted with.

409
00:18:27,372 --> 00:18:28,076
Leah: There was this girl.

410
00:18:28,108 --> 00:18:30,844
She was very drunk, and she was, like, this

411
00:18:30,892 --> 00:18:35,916
close to his face, and just, he was like, I
don't know why she was blowing alcohol in my

412
00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:36,212
face.

413
00:18:36,276 --> 00:18:37,160
And I'm like.

414
00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:40,388
Kate: I know.

415
00:18:40,404 --> 00:18:40,724
Clark: So just.

416
00:18:40,772 --> 00:18:45,066
Kate: I just let it happen because he has no
concept of what is the happening.

417
00:18:45,178 --> 00:18:47,090
Moshe: Yeah. And it wouldn't even occur to me.

418
00:18:47,170 --> 00:18:51,122
So it was just like, yeah, girl is touching me

419
00:18:51,146 --> 00:18:51,730
and stuff.

420
00:18:51,810 --> 00:18:53,590
Leah: Yeah, weird girl touching me.

421
00:18:54,170 --> 00:18:55,830
Kate: That's how you would feel, too.

422
00:18:57,650 --> 00:19:02,458
Leah: So, Kate, actually, now that you've
brought up sort of before times, it's always

423
00:19:02,514 --> 00:19:08,690
interesting to me meeting people in my same
situation, because I went into this sort of

424
00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:09,578
eyes wide open.

425
00:19:09,634 --> 00:19:11,346
I knew Moshe when we were children and

426
00:19:11,378 --> 00:19:15,510
teenagers, and then we parted ways for a
while, and then we were.

427
00:19:16,090 --> 00:19:20,470
Knew each other for a while as adults and then
not, and then we were together.

428
00:19:20,970 --> 00:19:25,550
But as children, there was no doubt in my mind
that there was something up with him.

429
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:27,714
And as an adult, I came into it.

430
00:19:27,722 --> 00:19:29,298
With him going, I'm probably autistic, and me

431
00:19:29,314 --> 00:19:30,538
going out, that made sense.

432
00:19:30,674 --> 00:19:34,082
So when you first got together, like, those

433
00:19:34,146 --> 00:19:38,802
things that annoyed you enough for him to
check him out, did you not see them, or did

434
00:19:38,826 --> 00:19:42,284
they not bother you enough because you weren't
together as much?

435
00:19:42,482 --> 00:19:46,040
Or was it just like one of those rose colored
glasses things?

436
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,584
And I'm not asking to be insensitive.

437
00:19:47,632 --> 00:19:51,664
I'm genuinely, like, interested, because your

438
00:19:51,712 --> 00:19:53,496
experience tends to be more often than mine.

439
00:19:53,528 --> 00:19:55,176
These women end up married to this autistic

440
00:19:55,208 --> 00:19:56,976
guy and go, oh, my God, he's terrible.

441
00:19:57,048 --> 00:19:57,720
What happened?

442
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,020
And I'm going, how did you not know?
Like, how did you not see?

443
00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:07,000
Kate: I mean, I definitely, I think my rose
colored glasses have gone off, and now I think

444
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,576
everyone is autistic.

445
00:20:08,768 --> 00:20:11,506
I just, you know, I'm now on the opposite

446
00:20:11,538 --> 00:20:14,842
where I think everyone is autistic until told
otherwise.

447
00:20:14,906 --> 00:20:22,842
But it really was the pandemic of being
together 24/7 we'd always had our, our fights

448
00:20:23,026 --> 00:20:28,898
where it never, he never seemed to understand
where I was coming from, because I'm very much

449
00:20:28,914 --> 00:20:33,122
an emotional person, and I talked from an
emotional standpoint.

450
00:20:33,306 --> 00:20:37,642
And in, in the moment after we fought, I was
like, oh, he gets it.

451
00:20:37,666 --> 00:20:40,586
It's gonna be great, and everything's gonna
change.

452
00:20:40,698 --> 00:20:44,410
And then, oh, yeah, the exact same fight
again.

453
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:50,646
And we've been, I mean, we've been on and off
in couples counseling since we did premarital

454
00:20:50,678 --> 00:20:55,318
counseling, and we just kept it because we
both come from broken homes, and so we thought

455
00:20:55,374 --> 00:20:59,542
that this is, we're going to outlive this and
we're not going to repeat our parents.

456
00:20:59,606 --> 00:21:05,870
But isn't it, was it couples counseling or
during one of your counseling where they asked

457
00:21:05,910 --> 00:21:08,496
if, like, we spoke different languages?

458
00:21:08,678 --> 00:21:13,892
Clark: My counseling, it was before we were
married, like, engaged or something, and I was

459
00:21:13,916 --> 00:21:20,868
going to counseling because of stuff from my
childhood and, like, deploying to Iraq twice.

460
00:21:20,924 --> 00:21:24,964
I thought my biggest problems at the time
were, but, you know, that's, I was going to

461
00:21:24,972 --> 00:21:26,516
deal with stuff like that for myself.

462
00:21:26,668 --> 00:21:28,396
But then they were asking about my

463
00:21:28,428 --> 00:21:33,172
relationship, and I think, just by the way I
was describing it, that we weren't

464
00:21:33,236 --> 00:21:34,436
understanding each other.

465
00:21:34,508 --> 00:21:36,524
We were, you know, talking to each other,

466
00:21:36,572 --> 00:21:39,212
saying things, but we were not understanding
each other.

467
00:21:39,236 --> 00:21:43,276
They were like, is English her first language?
Or something like that?

468
00:21:43,308 --> 00:21:45,780
You know, do you natively speak the same
language?

469
00:21:45,820 --> 00:21:46,556
Maybe is what they said.

470
00:21:46,588 --> 00:21:47,800
I was like, yes.

471
00:21:48,180 --> 00:21:52,400
Leah: Yeah. And they were being metaphorical.

472
00:21:52,780 --> 00:21:56,900
Kate: Yeah. And I guess having not met me,
we've always been great communicators.

473
00:21:56,980 --> 00:22:02,148
But when it comes to, like, emotions and
feelings and things like that, that was always

474
00:22:02,204 --> 00:22:04,130
like our biggest barrier.

475
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:11,326
Leah: And so by very hard with that, because
if you don't have the autism diagnosis and

476
00:22:11,358 --> 00:22:16,678
even afterwards, if you don't have that, the
communication skills and the understanding of

477
00:22:16,734 --> 00:22:22,646
the intrinsic skills that they don't have,
it's very easy to put a moral characteristic

478
00:22:22,678 --> 00:22:27,206
on it, like, oh, he's not nice or he's not a
good partner because we keep having the same

479
00:22:27,238 --> 00:22:28,374
fight and he's not listening.

480
00:22:28,462 --> 00:22:30,650
No, he's not understanding you.

481
00:22:30,790 --> 00:22:32,282
But that's, that's work.

482
00:22:32,346 --> 00:22:34,026
That takes work on both sides.

483
00:22:34,058 --> 00:22:38,714
So when you said that, I identified it right
away because I'd be like, I feel so about.

484
00:22:38,842 --> 00:22:42,282
And he was just like, I'm sorry and I love you
and I'll do anything because he just wanted

485
00:22:42,306 --> 00:22:44,338
the screaming to stop, but he didn't
understand.

486
00:22:44,474 --> 00:22:46,186
So we have the same fight.

487
00:22:46,378 --> 00:22:46,754
Kate: Right.

488
00:22:46,802 --> 00:22:49,418
He'd always say the thing I wanted to hear,

489
00:22:49,594 --> 00:22:54,470
but he wasn't actually processing it to
change.

490
00:22:54,930 --> 00:23:01,886
Leah: Yeah, but I'm, I'm extremely stubborn
and I'm extremely logical, so I'll be like,

491
00:23:01,918 --> 00:23:03,930
well, if you didn't mean that, why'd you say
it?

492
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:08,382
And that would lead to literally going all the
way down the rabbit hole going, you don't

493
00:23:08,446 --> 00:23:11,646
know, do you?
And he was like, no. And then we would be able

494
00:23:11,678 --> 00:23:13,910
to sort of build it up.

495
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:14,430
Kate: Yeah.

496
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:15,366
Leah: From there.

497
00:23:15,558 --> 00:23:19,206
Kate: And I think we still struggle with it,
especially when I get very emotional.

498
00:23:19,278 --> 00:23:24,020
But I think, I don't know, every day we work
on it a little bit more.

499
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,660
I know our fights don't seem to last as long
now.

500
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,536
Leah: Yeah, that's really good.

501
00:23:29,728 --> 00:23:31,776
Yeah, us too.

502
00:23:31,848 --> 00:23:37,224
Like, we're, we enjoy doing this podcast
because we're not from the perspective of

503
00:23:37,392 --> 00:23:40,640
experts or we're done now, or we're on the
other side now.

504
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,460
We're still working on things.

505
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,416
And your experience that you just discussed,

506
00:23:45,488 --> 00:23:47,776
like, definitely resonated with me.

507
00:23:47,808 --> 00:23:48,580
For sure.

508
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:56,228
Moshe: There's a lot of things online, TikTok
and other podcasts about autism and

509
00:23:56,244 --> 00:23:57,412
neurodiversity.

510
00:23:57,596 --> 00:24:00,628
And there's some really great people out there

511
00:24:00,684 --> 00:24:03,524
talking about the autistic perspective.

512
00:24:03,692 --> 00:24:06,876
But based on our own research, there's really

513
00:24:06,948 --> 00:24:13,220
not that many people who are autistic who are
able to say, you know what?

514
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:18,046
I actually do need to work on myself and I
need to change some of the ways that I

515
00:24:18,078 --> 00:24:23,142
perceive things in order to be better at
communicating and better at understanding and

516
00:24:23,166 --> 00:24:24,070
better at empathizing.

517
00:24:24,110 --> 00:24:26,270
And as you like to say, theory of mind.

518
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:27,878
Leah: We had this great conversation.

519
00:24:27,934 --> 00:24:30,622
We watched another guy's video, which was,

520
00:24:30,646 --> 00:24:31,790
again, technically correct.

521
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:33,878
So like I said to you earlier, Clark, about

522
00:24:33,974 --> 00:24:36,398
technically, the world shouldn't be that way,
but it is.

523
00:24:36,574 --> 00:24:45,054
So his video was technically correct by saying
that it's incumbent upon autistic people to

524
00:24:45,102 --> 00:24:49,774
learn neurotypical culture, and that that's
not fair.

525
00:24:49,902 --> 00:24:50,470
And it is.

526
00:24:50,510 --> 00:24:52,262
But we paused the video and I looked at Moshe,

527
00:24:52,286 --> 00:24:58,894
and I said, moshe, if you moved to China and
then refused to learn chinese and then

528
00:24:58,942 --> 00:25:02,550
expected everybody to understand you, would
that work?

529
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:09,542
And he said, no. And I said, well, if you're
2% of the population and we're 98% of the

530
00:25:09,566 --> 00:25:13,622
population, then shouldn't it be incumbent
upon you to at least learn our culture so you

531
00:25:13,646 --> 00:25:17,190
could fake it to make your life easier?
And he went, yeah.

532
00:25:17,530 --> 00:25:22,322
And that was a really interesting sort of
flipping that on its head conversation that we

533
00:25:22,346 --> 00:25:22,914
had.

534
00:25:23,082 --> 00:25:30,946
Moshe: And I drew kind of a parallel between
that kind of thinking, your thing about being

535
00:25:30,978 --> 00:25:38,930
in China and our experience here, and a lot of
the other autistic advocates out there who are

536
00:25:38,970 --> 00:25:40,820
like, this is who we are.

537
00:25:40,930 --> 00:25:42,872
This is how we think, this is how we

538
00:25:42,896 --> 00:25:43,592
communicate.

539
00:25:43,696 --> 00:25:45,020
This is what we need.

540
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:46,600
Get used to it.

541
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,328
And I said, that's not as helpful to the

542
00:25:50,344 --> 00:25:52,000
autistic community as you think it is.

543
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,552
Leah: It's lovely and theoretically nice, but
it's also never going to happen.

544
00:25:56,696 --> 00:26:03,664
Just like even if you move to China and learn
Chinese, you're never going to be chinese.

545
00:26:03,792 --> 00:26:08,016
Therefore, it's not going to take away your
autistic versus neurotypical status, but it

546
00:26:08,048 --> 00:26:10,956
does allow you to communicate and function in
the world.

547
00:26:11,048 --> 00:26:13,308
Moshe: I mean, it's done with the best of
intention.

548
00:26:13,404 --> 00:26:18,804
It really is, because, as you said, autistics
make up like around 2% of the population or

549
00:26:18,852 --> 00:26:19,668
around it.

550
00:26:19,804 --> 00:26:23,460
So there's definitely not that much

551
00:26:23,580 --> 00:26:29,028
understanding about how an autistic person
thinks and what they need and their sensory

552
00:26:29,084 --> 00:26:31,756
issues and different communication styles and
all that stuff.

553
00:26:31,788 --> 00:26:34,628
So it's very helpful to discuss them.

554
00:26:34,684 --> 00:26:35,532
Absolutely, it is.

555
00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:41,708
And I'm not at all saying to anyone that we
shouldn't be able to say, look, this is sort

556
00:26:41,724 --> 00:26:44,972
of what we're sort of experiencing.

557
00:26:45,156 --> 00:26:47,924
But also a lot of these comments, like a lot

558
00:26:47,932 --> 00:26:52,492
of these videos and podcasts and YouTubes and
TikToks and stuff, a lot of the comments say,

559
00:26:52,516 --> 00:26:53,428
that's all wonderful.

560
00:26:53,524 --> 00:26:55,764
You're talking about some really helpful stuff

561
00:26:55,812 --> 00:27:00,612
about how to communicate with people with
autism and how to relate to them and how they

562
00:27:00,636 --> 00:27:05,404
relate and parallel play and info dumping and
all the catch buzzwords.

563
00:27:05,532 --> 00:27:09,600
But what are they doing to communicate with
you?

564
00:27:09,980 --> 00:27:14,044
Like, what is your autistic friend or your
autistic partner, your autistic coworker?

565
00:27:14,092 --> 00:27:19,844
Your autistic husband or wife?
What are they doing to learn how to be better

566
00:27:19,892 --> 00:27:25,252
partners and friends and workers and people?
Are they just going around demanding that

567
00:27:25,276 --> 00:27:31,636
everyone accommodate them?
Or are they also being told, great, I will

568
00:27:31,708 --> 00:27:36,910
make an effort to be more patient when I
explain something to you, but you have to do

569
00:27:37,610 --> 00:27:41,870
something to better understand that I'm trying
to do whatever.

570
00:27:42,170 --> 00:27:46,466
And that's what Leah and I have been working
on, and that's what it definitely sounds like

571
00:27:46,498 --> 00:27:49,510
you guys are working on, and that's what Adam
and Becca were working on.

572
00:27:50,050 --> 00:27:52,834
Leah: But there's a common thread here.

573
00:27:52,962 --> 00:27:55,418
For Kate, for me, for Adam.

574
00:27:55,554 --> 00:28:00,690
We're all invested very deeply in somebody
who's neurodivergent, so we're automatically

575
00:28:00,730 --> 00:28:01,918
going to try harder.

576
00:28:02,034 --> 00:28:04,342
But the world at large, it's a really scary

577
00:28:04,406 --> 00:28:05,010
place.

578
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:06,990
Moshe: It really is.

579
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:08,810
And this is what we tell our children.

580
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:13,494
The children know that their home is always a
safe landing spot.

581
00:28:13,662 --> 00:28:18,638
And the realistic perspective is that at home,
you will be loved, you will be accepted, you

582
00:28:18,654 --> 00:28:21,734
will be appreciated, you will be boosted.

583
00:28:21,782 --> 00:28:23,702
We will always tell you that you're amazing,

584
00:28:23,766 --> 00:28:26,214
wonderful, special children.

585
00:28:26,382 --> 00:28:27,998
But then when you leave this door and you go

586
00:28:28,014 --> 00:28:31,894
into the real world, you can't expect nothing
from nobody, because nobody's going to hand

587
00:28:31,942 --> 00:28:34,302
you anything without you earning it.

588
00:28:34,326 --> 00:28:36,102
You can't go, well, my mommy says I'm special,

589
00:28:36,166 --> 00:28:38,310
so you have to do the thing for me.

590
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:41,294
We have great kids, but they understand that

591
00:28:41,422 --> 00:28:46,070
if they don't work at school or they don't
make friends or they're not nice to people,

592
00:28:46,190 --> 00:28:48,958
that they can't expect everyone to forgive
them all the time.

593
00:28:49,094 --> 00:28:52,678
Leah: So what do you two do to bridge the
communication gap?

594
00:28:52,854 --> 00:28:57,530
What are some of your go to things for us?
It's really just me being extremely stubborn.

595
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:00,992
Moshe: In the best possible way.

596
00:29:01,096 --> 00:29:02,152
Leah: Thank you, dear.

597
00:29:02,296 --> 00:29:04,620
Kate: What do you think from your perspective?

598
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,496
Clark: I think I've told you before, I try to,
I don't do it all the time, obviously, but I

599
00:29:10,528 --> 00:29:17,800
try to, like, think about things, whatever's
happening in the day, and then, like,

600
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,784
communicate with you.

601
00:29:18,832 --> 00:29:21,320
So normally, if something happened to me, like

602
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,758
something was going on at work or whatever
that was making me frustrated, I would just be

603
00:29:25,774 --> 00:29:28,966
like, oh, this is what it is, and I'm
frustrated.

604
00:29:29,118 --> 00:29:33,166
And then maybe I'd come home and be
frustrated, and then Kate would be like, maybe

605
00:29:33,198 --> 00:29:34,070
thinking it was about her.

606
00:29:34,110 --> 00:29:37,046
So I've been trying to communicate more in the

607
00:29:37,078 --> 00:29:41,230
moment and just, like, tell her, like, so that
I don't remember what day it was, I think.

608
00:29:41,270 --> 00:29:44,854
But a couple weeks ago, I think I, you know,
is at work, and I text you about something,

609
00:29:44,902 --> 00:29:48,850
being so frustrated, and I'm exasperated and
whatever.

610
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:50,710
I mean, that's a simple one.

611
00:29:50,750 --> 00:29:53,686
And then other than that, for me, when she

612
00:29:53,718 --> 00:29:57,734
does something that I really appreciate, like,
most of the time, I just pick, you know, be

613
00:29:57,742 --> 00:29:59,214
like, oh, you know, oh, thanks.

614
00:29:59,262 --> 00:29:59,774
That's great.

615
00:29:59,822 --> 00:30:03,886
But, you know, I know she likes to hear more
than that, you know?

616
00:30:03,918 --> 00:30:08,126
So I kind of have to, like, it's almost like
being conscious in the moment.

617
00:30:08,158 --> 00:30:15,110
I'm like, okay, what would make her feel good
in this situation, you know, for me to say.

618
00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:19,994
And it's not that it's disingenuous, but it's
like, my gut reactions be like, hey, but, you

619
00:30:20,002 --> 00:30:24,794
know, then I'm like, okay, Abbott, you know,
she probably, you know, wants to feel

620
00:30:24,842 --> 00:30:25,594
appreciated.

621
00:30:25,682 --> 00:30:26,090
Kate: Yeah.

622
00:30:26,170 --> 00:30:30,650
Clark: You know, for what she did, it's
probably good to say, you know, how helpful

623
00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:32,330
that was or, you know, whatever it is.

624
00:30:32,370 --> 00:30:34,954
So, madam, I guess it's communication.

625
00:30:35,002 --> 00:30:40,362
So I'm just sort of, like, trying to think
about how she would communicate with that and

626
00:30:40,386 --> 00:30:44,546
then, you know, trying to give that back to
her versus just giving her the way I

627
00:30:44,578 --> 00:30:47,030
communicate, which is kind of what I did
forever.

628
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:48,518
And I was like, well, this is good.

629
00:30:48,574 --> 00:30:50,502
You know, sort of like what you said earlier,

630
00:30:50,566 --> 00:30:52,614
like, well, this is good enough because this
is how I communicate.

631
00:30:52,662 --> 00:30:55,530
And I said, I appreciate you.

632
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:57,142
Kate: Yeah, I did marry him.

633
00:30:57,206 --> 00:30:57,782
Yeah.

634
00:30:57,926 --> 00:31:03,806
And I think, well, thinking about all that,
like, something like, I do like to hear, you

635
00:31:03,838 --> 00:31:08,078
know, words of praise and words of affirmation
that I'm doing something right.

636
00:31:08,214 --> 00:31:10,998
And that's hard for Clark because he's like, I
already said it once.

637
00:31:11,054 --> 00:31:12,490
I don't need to say it again.

638
00:31:13,630 --> 00:31:17,942
One thing that I've gone back and forth if it

639
00:31:18,006 --> 00:31:24,398
hurts my feelings or not, but is that in his
phone, he puts a time, and it says, text Kate.

640
00:31:24,574 --> 00:31:27,750
And I, as a neurotypical, want it to be
spontaneous.

641
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:31,518
And he's like, oh, he's thinking about me, and
I want him to text me.

642
00:31:31,614 --> 00:31:34,290
Clark: Well, but that isn't.

643
00:31:34,590 --> 00:31:36,710
That's because I have a hard time remembering

644
00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:37,174
stuff.

645
00:31:37,222 --> 00:31:39,370
Like, I have a reminder in my phone to, like,

646
00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:45,514
take my medication in the morning because I'll
get distracted and rushed and run out the door

647
00:31:45,682 --> 00:31:50,186
and then be like, oh, no. But what I was going
to say to preface that is.

648
00:31:50,378 --> 00:31:56,610
That's a. That's more of, like, a hard stop
reminder where it's set for, like, 11:00 a.m.

649
00:31:56,730 --> 00:32:00,074
but I ended up, like, texting you earlier in
the day to see how things are going.

650
00:32:00,122 --> 00:32:05,842
That's, like, if I'm so, wow, you know, not,
you know, so not conscious of what's going on

651
00:32:05,906 --> 00:32:09,784
and just sort of involved in work that, you
know, bangs me to go, like, oh, yeah, right.

652
00:32:09,832 --> 00:32:10,864
I haven't done that yet.

653
00:32:10,952 --> 00:32:11,224
Kate: Yeah.

654
00:32:11,272 --> 00:32:12,936
Clark: So that it's not today.

655
00:32:13,008 --> 00:32:14,512
Kate: Today I feel that it's sweet.

656
00:32:14,576 --> 00:32:16,776
Sometimes I'm like, you just can't remember

657
00:32:16,848 --> 00:32:17,176
me.

658
00:32:17,248 --> 00:32:22,040
Leah: But no. So I'm going to tell you my
perspective on this because, wow, that hit me

659
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:22,900
right here.

660
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,064
And that is such an act of love from a

661
00:32:26,072 --> 00:32:29,824
neurodivergent person that he put you in his
phone as a reminder.

662
00:32:29,872 --> 00:32:36,530
That means you're actually quite important to
him to remember to text you, because this guy

663
00:32:36,570 --> 00:32:40,630
will just not text me for days if I don't text
him sometimes.

664
00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:46,794
So that comes to my point of view on that was
actually if I decided I wanted to be with this

665
00:32:46,842 --> 00:32:51,890
person as a neurotypical and as a woman and as
an emotional creature that I am, I had to give

666
00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:54,482
up a lot on the effortless roman.

667
00:32:54,626 --> 00:32:57,146
Like, the type of things that you see in the

668
00:32:57,178 --> 00:32:57,738
movies.

669
00:32:57,874 --> 00:32:59,124
Kate: Yeah, 100%.

670
00:32:59,242 --> 00:33:04,176
Leah: And very much I had to be like, okay, so
in this situation, you have to say these exact

671
00:33:04,248 --> 00:33:10,780
things to me, and you need to stop doing this
thing, and you need to do this exact whatever.

672
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,220
And it's not because he doesn't care, it's
because he doesn't know.

673
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,696
So, yeah, you should put a reminder in your
phone to text me.

674
00:33:17,728 --> 00:33:19,740
He's more romantic than you are.

675
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,140
Kate: Oh, look, you got it.

676
00:33:25,940 --> 00:33:26,972
It's true, isn't it?

677
00:33:26,996 --> 00:33:29,852
Leah: Isn't that a really big sign of, like,
love it?

678
00:33:29,876 --> 00:33:30,356
Moshe: Absolutely.

679
00:33:30,428 --> 00:33:33,812
Leah: Autistics show love in completely
different ways than we do.

680
00:33:33,996 --> 00:33:39,044
Moshe: We expect what we do a lot of the time
is we try to make up for some of the deficits

681
00:33:39,092 --> 00:33:43,320
that we identify in ourselves by creating
checks and balances.

682
00:33:43,620 --> 00:33:52,492
Which is why I started having monthly, bi
weekly, weekly reminders of every special

683
00:33:52,556 --> 00:33:53,644
event in our life.

684
00:33:53,692 --> 00:33:56,916
Yes, there is three weeks to Father's Day or

685
00:33:56,948 --> 00:34:01,156
three weeks to mother's day, two weeks to
Leah's birthday, one week to Leah's birthday,

686
00:34:01,228 --> 00:34:06,796
three days to Leah's birthday, because I want
to constantly remind myself, not that I don't

687
00:34:06,828 --> 00:34:11,476
love her, but because I need to know that
there's, I got to be on, I got to do the

688
00:34:11,508 --> 00:34:12,772
things that I need to do.

689
00:34:12,796 --> 00:34:14,484
And if I forget and say, oh, I have another

690
00:34:14,532 --> 00:34:16,324
week I might forget.

691
00:34:16,492 --> 00:34:18,900
So it's very important, but I do need to text

692
00:34:18,940 --> 00:34:19,689
you more.

693
00:34:19,859 --> 00:34:24,509
Leah: Whereas most women, you know, married to
a neurotypical man will be like, oh, of course

694
00:34:24,549 --> 00:34:26,029
he's going to forget my birthday.

695
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:27,797
This is a, like, yeah, of course he's going to

696
00:34:27,813 --> 00:34:28,525
forget my birthday.

697
00:34:28,557 --> 00:34:30,325
So if he bothered to put it in, that means

698
00:34:30,397 --> 00:34:31,889
it's important to him.

699
00:34:32,589 --> 00:34:34,189
Kate: You can't forget my birthday.

700
00:34:34,309 --> 00:34:35,717
You're pretty good about dates.

701
00:34:35,853 --> 00:34:37,269
I think that's your thing.

702
00:34:37,309 --> 00:34:41,649
Moshe: Yeah, I can better do things.

703
00:34:42,709 --> 00:34:43,973
Leah: That's. No, but that's.

704
00:34:44,021 --> 00:34:44,517
That's important.

705
00:34:44,573 --> 00:34:46,249
That's a huge life.

706
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,848
How do I put this without sounding the way I'm

707
00:34:48,864 --> 00:34:52,432
going to sound?
If an autistic even bothers to think about you

708
00:34:52,456 --> 00:34:54,220
or remember you, they love you along.

709
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,060
Moshe: Yes, that is true.

710
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,712
Kate: Oh, I feel so special.

711
00:34:57,776 --> 00:34:58,580
Thank you.

712
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,376
I'll keep them for a little longer.

713
00:35:03,568 --> 00:35:04,520
Moshe: Well, that's good.

714
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:05,816
Leah: It looks like you guys are doing well.

715
00:35:05,848 --> 00:35:07,000
How was your trip to.

716
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,384
You went to Reykjavik.

717
00:35:08,552 --> 00:35:09,944
Kate: Yeah, we went to Iceland.

718
00:35:10,032 --> 00:35:11,860
We just decided it was my.

719
00:35:12,540 --> 00:35:17,780
It was both of our birthdays since, you know,
we're turning 40 and we live in Pittsburgh,

720
00:35:17,860 --> 00:35:21,044
Pennsylvania, so there's direct flights from
here to Iceland.

721
00:35:21,092 --> 00:35:24,004
So we were like, why not?
So we took.

722
00:35:24,132 --> 00:35:26,060
We got to do two and a half days there.

723
00:35:26,140 --> 00:35:29,340
My mom watched the girls and we went.

724
00:35:29,420 --> 00:35:33,360
And it was beautiful but expensive.

725
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:34,884
Leah: I can imagine.

726
00:35:34,972 --> 00:35:40,412
Yeah. Yeah. How did you guys navigate that?

727
00:35:40,476 --> 00:35:45,600
Was it all good or did you have any sensory
issues or too much socializing or.

728
00:35:46,780 --> 00:35:47,652
Kate: I think.

729
00:35:47,796 --> 00:35:50,132
I think Scandinavia is great for autistics.

730
00:35:50,196 --> 00:35:52,600
It's very functional.

731
00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:56,700
There wasn't a whole lot of bright, loud

732
00:35:56,740 --> 00:35:57,060
colors.

733
00:35:57,100 --> 00:35:59,540
There's just very beige.

734
00:35:59,620 --> 00:36:00,644
Clark: Everything's beige.

735
00:36:00,692 --> 00:36:02,188
Kate: And your favorite color?

736
00:36:02,364 --> 00:36:03,564
Clark: Just like it.

737
00:36:03,732 --> 00:36:04,876
Moshe: Beige is a great color.

738
00:36:04,908 --> 00:36:05,680
It's very.

739
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:14,264
Clark: Yeah, I mean, I. I mean, I think the
hardest part was, like, the traveling.

740
00:36:14,312 --> 00:36:19,808
Cause every time I got set on the aisle and,
like, it was like, it was everyone's mission

741
00:36:19,864 --> 00:36:21,144
to bump into me.

742
00:36:21,272 --> 00:36:23,272
And so the going there, I was hard to, like,

743
00:36:23,296 --> 00:36:23,856
go to sleep.

744
00:36:23,888 --> 00:36:25,520
And then after that, coming home, I was just

745
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:25,936
annoyed.

746
00:36:25,968 --> 00:36:27,792
I'm like, I don't know.

747
00:36:27,936 --> 00:36:29,624
I'm very cognizant of.

748
00:36:29,752 --> 00:36:31,688
I mean, sometimes they can't be clumsy, but,

749
00:36:31,704 --> 00:36:34,624
you know, I'm very cognizant of where my body
is in relation to other people.

750
00:36:34,672 --> 00:36:38,436
And people are just, like, slinging backpacks
and hitting me with their butts.

751
00:36:38,488 --> 00:36:42,924
And I'm like, what is wrong with you people?
That was probably the hardest, like, sensory

752
00:36:42,972 --> 00:36:45,360
part and things like that.

753
00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:49,268
Leah: And don't go shopping on a Friday
morning with us in Jerusalem, I'll tell you

754
00:36:49,284 --> 00:36:49,840
that.

755
00:36:50,220 --> 00:36:51,148
Clark: Oh, yes.

756
00:36:51,204 --> 00:36:54,036
Moshe: I mean, you hate surrounded by autistic
people.

757
00:36:54,148 --> 00:36:55,692
Leah: Yeah. No, for real.

758
00:36:55,756 --> 00:36:57,356
When we got here, Moshe said, is this a

759
00:36:57,388 --> 00:37:00,332
country full of autistic people?
They're extremely direct.

760
00:37:00,516 --> 00:37:02,360
There's no pretense.

761
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:04,660
They'll just walk right through you.

762
00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:08,352
Moshe: Like, everyone doesn't really want to
do their job, and they make sure that you're

763
00:37:08,376 --> 00:37:09,300
aware of it.

764
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,060
Kate: Sounds like you're too.

765
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:15,740
Moshe: What do you want?

766
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:17,416
Kate: I think it was good.

767
00:37:17,448 --> 00:37:19,848
See, I like to do a lot of things on a

768
00:37:19,864 --> 00:37:22,940
vacation, and Clark likes to just sit and
lounge.

769
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:23,912
Right.

770
00:37:23,976 --> 00:37:24,792
Moshe: Lounging is good.

771
00:37:24,856 --> 00:37:25,936
I like to lounge, too.

772
00:37:26,008 --> 00:37:26,992
Clark: So I like to lounge.

773
00:37:27,016 --> 00:37:29,176
But I just like to do things without, like, a

774
00:37:29,208 --> 00:37:29,784
plan.

775
00:37:29,952 --> 00:37:32,288
Like, just sort of, like, you know, drive

776
00:37:32,344 --> 00:37:37,360
around or walk around and discover things
where you're like, okay, we're gonna do this

777
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,616
thing, this thing, this thing.

778
00:37:38,648 --> 00:37:40,592
You know, you have a list of stuff in your

779
00:37:40,616 --> 00:37:41,180
head.

780
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,056
Kate: Yeah. So, I mean, we always.

781
00:37:45,168 --> 00:37:46,100
I guess we.

782
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,768
Over the years, we've tried to make it, like,
half and half.

783
00:37:50,944 --> 00:37:57,660
And so I've taken a step back from my
planning, which is hard for me.

784
00:37:58,030 --> 00:37:58,766
But it was fun.

785
00:37:58,798 --> 00:38:00,134
There was lots of hiking.

786
00:38:00,262 --> 00:38:02,342
Clark said we did too much hiking.

787
00:38:02,526 --> 00:38:06,286
We literally hiked up a mountain for, like, 90

788
00:38:06,358 --> 00:38:06,838
minutes.

789
00:38:06,934 --> 00:38:09,890
Clark: And the cold and the rain to sit in a
hot creek.

790
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:12,798
Moshe: We went to some of the volcanoes.

791
00:38:12,854 --> 00:38:15,974
Leah: Yeah, see, so that would be a thing that
you would love, and I would be the one going.

792
00:38:16,022 --> 00:38:19,486
We hiked for 90 minutes in the cold and the
rain to sit in a hot creek.

793
00:38:19,518 --> 00:38:20,030
Like, he would.

794
00:38:20,070 --> 00:38:22,022
It would be opposite to us.

795
00:38:22,086 --> 00:38:23,694
Moshe: I was the one that did a.

796
00:38:23,702 --> 00:38:25,904
Kate: Steady hike, and I was like, oh, steady.

797
00:38:25,952 --> 00:38:27,752
That means it's, you know, easy.

798
00:38:27,856 --> 00:38:29,056
No, I think it was steady.

799
00:38:29,088 --> 00:38:30,896
Uphill, I think is really what they meant.

800
00:38:30,928 --> 00:38:31,352
It's like.

801
00:38:31,416 --> 00:38:32,384
Clark: No, constantly uphill.

802
00:38:32,392 --> 00:38:35,344
Leah: It probably meant you didn't have to
climb rocks or anything.

803
00:38:35,512 --> 00:38:40,112
Clark: Yeah. You didn't need equipment like
picks and ropes, but you were so.

804
00:38:40,256 --> 00:38:41,304
Kate: So that was rough.

805
00:38:41,352 --> 00:38:41,928
But we made.

806
00:38:41,984 --> 00:38:42,664
We made.

807
00:38:42,792 --> 00:38:44,340
So we made it through.

808
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:47,180
Moshe: Very good.

809
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,552
Leah: Yeah. So, I mean, that actually brings
me around to executive functioning.

810
00:38:52,736 --> 00:38:54,540
How does that go in our household?

811
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,072
Moshe: So I still struggle with a lot of
executive functioning, such as the

812
00:38:59,096 --> 00:39:09,140
prioritizing of different things or knowing
what to do when and how and just a general

813
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,512
array of constantly doing things.

814
00:39:13,616 --> 00:39:16,880
Leah calls me a magpie because I'm constantly

815
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,200
cleaning things around the house, but I always
forget where I put everything.

816
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,616
Leah: Yeah. So he steals other people's things
accidentally, but he'll pick up other people's

817
00:39:25,648 --> 00:39:25,816
things.

818
00:39:25,848 --> 00:39:31,432
Moshe: And so inevitably, all of everyone's
stuff will end up in our closet because I'll

819
00:39:31,456 --> 00:39:36,296
just pick it up and then forget where I got it
and then just put it someplace that I'll know

820
00:39:36,328 --> 00:39:37,224
where it is.

821
00:39:37,392 --> 00:39:39,440
So I have this shelf in the closet and somehow

822
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,040
everything ends up there because it's stuff I
picked up from around the house that was

823
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:43,608
somewhere else.

824
00:39:43,664 --> 00:39:48,400
Leah: And our daughter is twelve, so she's
starting to need things like her anti acne,

825
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,952
you know, washes and whatever.

826
00:39:51,096 --> 00:39:52,632
And she's like, where's my.

827
00:39:52,816 --> 00:39:56,968
She finds it in here and she goes, daddy, just
don't touch, don't touch my thing.

828
00:39:57,064 --> 00:39:58,632
Just don't touch my thing.

829
00:39:58,736 --> 00:40:00,120
Moshe: I tell her it shouldn't be on the
floor.

830
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,656
Then, yeah, it's on the floor.

831
00:40:02,688 --> 00:40:03,920
It's gonna end up in my closet.

832
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,152
That's the bottom line.

833
00:40:05,176 --> 00:40:07,216
Leah: So, yeah, we call him the thieving
magpie.

834
00:40:07,408 --> 00:40:11,760
Kate: Well, that's better because Clark just
takes a trash bag and starts throwing things

835
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:12,024
away.

836
00:40:12,072 --> 00:40:15,490
And then there's lots of tears and lots of

837
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,590
like, now they know when the trash bag comes
out, it's almost like they start to have

838
00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:22,730
anxiety that everything on the floor is.

839
00:40:24,590 --> 00:40:27,150
Clark: What they don't know is I do that when
they go to sleep.

840
00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:29,570
I just pick up everything on the floor and
throw it away.

841
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:32,102
Leah: I mean, that's kind of a good way to do
it.

842
00:40:32,206 --> 00:40:33,302
Natural consequences.

843
00:40:33,366 --> 00:40:35,942
Like I like to say, yes, on the floor, it goes

844
00:40:35,966 --> 00:40:36,622
in the trash.

845
00:40:36,726 --> 00:40:40,462
Moshe: The kids are starting to lose socks
because if I find socks behind the couch, they

846
00:40:40,486 --> 00:40:41,486
usually have them at the garbage.

847
00:40:41,518 --> 00:40:45,878
Leah: Yeah, you sweep them up and throw them
in the garbage every week before the Sabbath.

848
00:40:45,934 --> 00:40:50,290
We clean thoroughly, and if we find socks and
things on the floor, they go in the garbage.

849
00:40:50,670 --> 00:40:53,646
Moshe: And if she says, wear all my socks, I'm
like, we'll stop leaving them on the floor.

850
00:40:53,678 --> 00:40:56,174
Why do you take your socks off in the living
room anyway?

851
00:40:56,342 --> 00:40:57,542
Take them off in your bedroom.

852
00:40:57,566 --> 00:40:59,102
That's what you have a bedroom for.

853
00:40:59,286 --> 00:41:00,230
Kate: Yeah, that's exactly.

854
00:41:00,270 --> 00:41:01,374
We have socks everywhere.

855
00:41:01,422 --> 00:41:02,782
I don't know where they go.

856
00:41:02,966 --> 00:41:04,430
Clark: I know there's clothes everywhere.

857
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:06,206
Not just socks, clothes.

858
00:41:06,318 --> 00:41:06,846
Kate: Yep.

859
00:41:06,958 --> 00:41:08,110
Leah: I mean, you have two little girls.

860
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:09,246
That's going to happen.

861
00:41:09,438 --> 00:41:10,210
Clark: Yeah.

862
00:41:10,620 --> 00:41:13,436
Leah: So how does executive function work in
your household?

863
00:41:13,468 --> 00:41:16,932
So here, honestly, I do a lot of the heavy
lifting where that's concerned.

864
00:41:16,956 --> 00:41:21,556
Moshe will serve, use me as, I don't know, as
a computer, as like an iPad or something.

865
00:41:21,628 --> 00:41:26,868
He'll input data into me so he can offload it,
and then I'll come back to him with it later.

866
00:41:27,004 --> 00:41:28,700
Yeah, like, don't forget we have to do this.

867
00:41:28,740 --> 00:41:29,956
And don't forget we have to do that.

868
00:41:29,988 --> 00:41:32,468
And don't forget you asked me to remind you of
the blah, blah, blah.

869
00:41:32,564 --> 00:41:32,988
Moshe: Right.

870
00:41:33,084 --> 00:41:37,728
Leah: So he does that a lot because he doesn't
have a whole lot of space for executive

871
00:41:37,824 --> 00:41:41,856
function of small details, because he's
running a lot of the big details.

872
00:41:41,888 --> 00:41:47,752
Like, he does the majority of the podcast
stuff, and he does a day job, and then he has

873
00:41:47,776 --> 00:41:49,720
to interact with everybody religiously.

874
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,928
And then, I don't know, I keep the social.

875
00:41:52,984 --> 00:41:57,072
Like, I speak to the aunts and the moms and
the whatever, I keep the social calendar.

876
00:41:57,096 --> 00:42:00,280
But he's doing a lot already, so he doesn't
have the bandwidth for.

877
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,842
You know, you got to remember that we have to
fill your medication next Tuesday, so he'll

878
00:42:04,866 --> 00:42:06,386
offload those things on me.

879
00:42:06,538 --> 00:42:08,670
Do you guys do something like that?

880
00:42:09,970 --> 00:42:15,630
Clark: Yeah, I think the main thing is, if
it's not in my calendar, it doesn't exist.

881
00:42:16,090 --> 00:42:22,698
So, like, a birthday, like, whatever, there's
a. One of our kids has got to go to a birthday

882
00:42:22,754 --> 00:42:23,162
party.

883
00:42:23,266 --> 00:42:24,482
Like, well, it's not in my calendar.

884
00:42:24,506 --> 00:42:25,362
I'm not going to remember it.

885
00:42:25,386 --> 00:42:26,690
It doesn't exist.

886
00:42:26,810 --> 00:42:31,242
And I'm not saying that, like, I'll put stuff
in there, you know?

887
00:42:31,266 --> 00:42:31,634
But if.

888
00:42:31,682 --> 00:42:33,842
If it's something that Kate plans and I'm

889
00:42:33,866 --> 00:42:35,842
like, well, you know, send it to.

890
00:42:35,866 --> 00:42:36,290
I'll either.

891
00:42:36,330 --> 00:42:38,602
I'll do it right then and there, I'm like,
well, you have to send it to me, because

892
00:42:38,626 --> 00:42:40,402
otherwise it's not going to be remembered.

893
00:42:40,506 --> 00:42:41,562
It's like, it's not important.

894
00:42:41,626 --> 00:42:42,350
It's just.

895
00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:44,474
It's going to get forgotten.

896
00:42:44,562 --> 00:42:47,082
Kate: Yeah. If I hadn't put the podcast on
our.

897
00:42:47,266 --> 00:42:48,674
On the calendar, he.

898
00:42:48,802 --> 00:42:50,026
He wouldn't have been here.

899
00:42:50,098 --> 00:42:51,746
I mean, he would have.

900
00:42:51,778 --> 00:42:55,162
Clark: Wasn't going anywhere, but I probably
would have slept through it, because I'm like,

901
00:42:55,226 --> 00:42:56,098
it doesn't exist.

902
00:42:56,194 --> 00:42:57,138
It's not on my calendar.

903
00:42:57,154 --> 00:42:58,074
It doesn't exist.

904
00:42:58,242 --> 00:43:04,674
Kate: Yeah, I think you're pretty good,
because we have a calendar, like the Google

905
00:43:04,722 --> 00:43:05,590
calendar.

906
00:43:06,090 --> 00:43:08,550
I think that's how we sometimes communicate.

907
00:43:09,010 --> 00:43:10,106
Leah: Be honest with you.

908
00:43:10,138 --> 00:43:12,482
We've tried to share a calendar, but he fills

909
00:43:12,506 --> 00:43:13,762
it with so much junk.

910
00:43:13,826 --> 00:43:14,750
I can't.

911
00:43:15,050 --> 00:43:17,510
Kate: I don't put my stuff on this calendar.

912
00:43:17,850 --> 00:43:19,394
Clark: Well, we don't even share one.

913
00:43:19,442 --> 00:43:20,710
I think that would be.

914
00:43:21,330 --> 00:43:26,688
Yeah, we don't share one, but, like, it's
almost like we're gonna have meetings, you

915
00:43:26,704 --> 00:43:29,368
know, and I'm like, our daughter has karate.

916
00:43:29,464 --> 00:43:30,424
I put it in there.

917
00:43:30,472 --> 00:43:31,824
You know, karate.

918
00:43:31,992 --> 00:43:32,504
Whatever.

919
00:43:32,552 --> 00:43:34,440
Time. 530 to 615.

920
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,272
And then I just invite her to it.

921
00:43:36,296 --> 00:43:40,448
And whether she accepts or not, but at least,
you know, I'm like, I have it.

922
00:43:40,464 --> 00:43:45,168
And I know that she should be aware of, you
know, what is going on.

923
00:43:45,304 --> 00:43:47,704
Kate: And I don't put any of, like, my
doctor's appointments.

924
00:43:47,752 --> 00:43:49,064
I never share that with him.

925
00:43:49,152 --> 00:43:53,706
I mean, because I do know I don't always, but,

926
00:43:53,778 --> 00:43:55,194
you know, I think he shared.

927
00:43:55,242 --> 00:43:57,430
He overshares everything.

928
00:43:57,770 --> 00:44:00,990
But I know that that's just how he has to
function.

929
00:44:01,410 --> 00:44:02,674
Moshe: I'm the same way.

930
00:44:02,842 --> 00:44:09,322
Kate: But also when we get home, like, it
takes forever now for you to, like, if we're

931
00:44:09,346 --> 00:44:12,962
getting out the door, Clark then needs to do
5000 things before we leave.

932
00:44:13,026 --> 00:44:18,218
As. As the three of us are waiting at the door
for Clarke, he's decided he's got to take out

933
00:44:18,234 --> 00:44:18,738
the trash.

934
00:44:18,794 --> 00:44:22,010
He's got to go sweep the floor.

935
00:44:22,050 --> 00:44:28,750
I don't know what you feel like you have to do
before we leave, but I think that that isn't

936
00:44:30,130 --> 00:44:31,150
that you wait.

937
00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:35,970
Leah: Again, avoiding the infantilizing word,
because he's your husband and not your child,

938
00:44:36,010 --> 00:44:39,082
but you should start an hour before saying,
hey, honey, in an hour, we're leaving.

939
00:44:39,106 --> 00:44:41,282
Do you have anything you need to do before
we're leaving?

940
00:44:41,426 --> 00:44:42,810
Okay, sweetie, in 30 minutes.

941
00:44:42,850 --> 00:44:44,858
Okay, honey, I'm going to get dressed now.

942
00:44:44,914 --> 00:44:46,182
Honestly, I do that.

943
00:44:46,346 --> 00:44:49,558
Kate: How would you respond when I talk to you
that way?

944
00:44:49,734 --> 00:44:50,302
Moshe: I don't know.

945
00:44:50,326 --> 00:44:51,846
Clark: You don't do it?
I don't know.

946
00:44:51,958 --> 00:44:53,878
Well, but here's the other.

947
00:44:53,974 --> 00:44:55,558
But here's the flip side of it, too.

948
00:44:55,614 --> 00:44:56,958
Is like, I'm ready.

949
00:44:57,054 --> 00:44:58,334
Like physically ready.

950
00:44:58,382 --> 00:45:00,070
It's just more of that.

951
00:45:00,230 --> 00:45:01,902
I don't know if it's like an impulse thing or

952
00:45:01,926 --> 00:45:06,530
what, like wrapping stuff up, you know,
closing stuff up before we leave.

953
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:11,230
But yeah, I mean, I think like, I'm physically
dressed and ready to go.

954
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:16,542
It's just more of a, like switching gears to
then, like, we have to leave.

955
00:45:16,726 --> 00:45:19,878
Leah: Yeah, I think that's what me preparing
him is doing.

956
00:45:19,934 --> 00:45:23,454
It's starting to switch the brain slowly so he
doesn't have to.

957
00:45:23,622 --> 00:45:27,086
Because again, it's not me infantilizing him,
it's me literally warning him.

958
00:45:27,118 --> 00:45:31,126
Okay, so you're going to have to go in the
cold pool, start tiptoeing in.

959
00:45:31,158 --> 00:45:32,902
Don't push you in.

960
00:45:33,006 --> 00:45:35,798
So I'm like, okay, so I'm going in the shower

961
00:45:35,854 --> 00:45:36,190
now.

962
00:45:36,270 --> 00:45:37,198
Remember, we're leaving.

963
00:45:37,254 --> 00:45:39,206
So I'm getting dressed now.

964
00:45:39,318 --> 00:45:40,490
15 minutes.

965
00:45:41,550 --> 00:45:45,750
Kate: Yeah. I've also wondered, too, if it's
like a social anxiety thing, knowing that

966
00:45:45,790 --> 00:45:51,886
we're going out and if we're seeing people
could be because I know in a previous podcast

967
00:45:51,918 --> 00:45:57,142
that I listened to, you talked about, it was
with coping mechanisms and, like, using

968
00:45:57,206 --> 00:45:58,630
alcohol and things like that.

969
00:45:58,750 --> 00:46:00,566
And that kind of resonated because Clark will

970
00:46:00,598 --> 00:46:01,406
do that.

971
00:46:01,598 --> 00:46:03,934
He's so fun when he's had a couple beers and

972
00:46:03,982 --> 00:46:09,330
he'll talk your ear off, and then he won't
know when to stop, but he'll talk.

973
00:46:10,510 --> 00:46:15,990
Moshe: The autistic brain is very interesting
because it is equal parts too fast and too

974
00:46:16,030 --> 00:46:20,014
slow, and it affects the autistic brain a
little bit differently.

975
00:46:20,062 --> 00:46:28,126
Not to say once again that using drugs or
alcohol is a crutch, but it is fun sometimes

976
00:46:28,198 --> 00:46:33,250
when you have to enter a very stressful
situation because it does allow functionality

977
00:46:33,620 --> 00:46:36,628
sometimes, but there are much more healthy
coping mechanisms.

978
00:46:36,684 --> 00:46:38,560
We do have to say that for the record.

979
00:46:38,860 --> 00:46:39,556
Kate: Right.

980
00:46:39,708 --> 00:46:41,440
Clark loves his craft beer.

981
00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:45,148
Moshe: I won't turn down a beer either.

982
00:46:45,244 --> 00:46:49,484
Leah: I also love craft beer when I'm not
green and wanting to throw off.

983
00:46:49,652 --> 00:46:50,052
Moshe: Right.

984
00:46:50,116 --> 00:46:52,748
Kate: Yeah, I know.

985
00:46:52,884 --> 00:46:54,292
I think otherwise.

986
00:46:54,436 --> 00:46:58,680
I mean, we do pretty good around the house of
chores and things.

987
00:46:59,110 --> 00:47:00,550
We actually did just have.

988
00:47:00,670 --> 00:47:02,206
It wasn't even a disagreement.

989
00:47:02,238 --> 00:47:06,510
But, like, we have a cat that needs
medication, and Clark's the one responsible

990
00:47:06,550 --> 00:47:07,782
for giving it to him.

991
00:47:07,926 --> 00:47:10,422
And he waited too long to tell me because I'm

992
00:47:10,446 --> 00:47:12,070
the one that refills it, though.

993
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:14,798
And so we had to come up with a different

994
00:47:14,854 --> 00:47:15,190
plan.

995
00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:18,050
Like, hey, I need to know x amount of time.

996
00:47:18,510 --> 00:47:21,502
Leah: You know, that's a good use for the
calendar.

997
00:47:21,646 --> 00:47:22,490
Moshe: It is.

998
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:23,798
Kate: It is.

999
00:47:23,974 --> 00:47:24,730
Clark: Yeah.

1000
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:31,496
Leah: Moshe takes ADHD medication, which he
ironically needs to remember to, you know,

1001
00:47:31,688 --> 00:47:36,232
take the ADHD medication so he could get more
ADHD medication so he doesn't forget to take

1002
00:47:36,256 --> 00:47:37,368
the ADHD medication.

1003
00:47:37,424 --> 00:47:39,064
You see how that cycle goes.

1004
00:47:39,232 --> 00:47:43,496
And we eventually just had to put it in a
calendar because it was being forgotten all

1005
00:47:43,528 --> 00:47:44,184
the time.

1006
00:47:44,312 --> 00:47:45,096
Moshe: Yes.

1007
00:47:45,288 --> 00:47:50,536
Clark: Well, the good thing for me that I go
through the VA for my healthcare, and they

1008
00:47:50,568 --> 00:47:54,192
started sending text messages like, you need
your prescription refilled.

1009
00:47:54,216 --> 00:47:55,872
So I don't even have to think about it now.

1010
00:47:55,976 --> 00:47:57,740
Moshe: That is why.

1011
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,304
Clark: Yes. So for me, I'm good.

1012
00:48:01,352 --> 00:48:03,704
The pets put that in the calendar.

1013
00:48:03,752 --> 00:48:04,380
Leah: Yeah.

1014
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,224
Moshe: So, neurodiverse couple on Instagram.

1015
00:48:09,272 --> 00:48:11,256
Tell us about your instagram.

1016
00:48:11,448 --> 00:48:15,260
Kate: Well, I just started it pretty soon
after.

1017
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,208
After you got diagnosed, because I just was
doing research out there, and it was really,

1018
00:48:20,264 --> 00:48:24,712
for me, as the neurotypical, I couldn't find a
lot of stuff out there.

1019
00:48:24,736 --> 00:48:30,192
There were a few things here and there that,
you know, being a neurodiverse couple, but

1020
00:48:30,216 --> 00:48:32,184
there just wasn't a whole lot.

1021
00:48:32,232 --> 00:48:35,544
And I just wanted to show that it's, it's real

1022
00:48:35,712 --> 00:48:36,780
and honest.

1023
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,776
And I know that the statistics out there

1024
00:48:39,808 --> 00:48:46,232
aren't great for, you know, couples to stay
together, but I wanted to show, you know, that

1025
00:48:46,256 --> 00:48:50,260
it is a lot of work and that they're not crazy
if they have hard days.

1026
00:48:51,150 --> 00:48:53,374
And then also, then there are the good days.

1027
00:48:53,422 --> 00:48:56,422
And so I just kind of wanted to show, you

1028
00:48:56,446 --> 00:48:59,334
know, the real life.

1029
00:48:59,382 --> 00:49:00,726
I'm kind of horrible at it, though.

1030
00:49:00,758 --> 00:49:08,142
I try hard, but then I almost every time I do
it, I feel like I go down this sappy route

1031
00:49:08,206 --> 00:49:09,030
with it.

1032
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:13,290
And I know I kind of do it without Clark, but

1033
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:15,342
Clark's there to be supportive.

1034
00:49:15,446 --> 00:49:20,312
Moshe: So you do really good work because we
definitely need to highlight more neurodiverse

1035
00:49:20,336 --> 00:49:27,336
couples like Leah and I and Ewan, Clark and
Becca and Adam and so many others out there to

1036
00:49:27,368 --> 00:49:33,040
sort of, because I occasionally sort of troll
the forums on various social media.

1037
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,792
And it really is quite sad to see how many
neurodiverse people out there, men and women,

1038
00:49:37,936 --> 00:49:41,928
are just looking for a connection and finding
it so hard to find.

1039
00:49:42,104 --> 00:49:47,260
So kudos to you and the both of you, actually,
for putting in the work.

1040
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:48,728
Kate: Thank you.

1041
00:49:48,904 --> 00:49:49,984
And thank you all, too.

1042
00:49:50,032 --> 00:49:52,740
I mean, I've been really enjoying your
podcast.

1043
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:54,280
I've laughed.

1044
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:55,480
Moshe: Great to have you on.

1045
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,176
Leah: I'm glad that you like it.

1046
00:49:57,208 --> 00:49:58,780
We are quite amusing.

1047
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,580
Moshe: Yeah, we do tend to be sometimes.

1048
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:07,016
Kate: Well, and it just makes us feel better
that, you know, we're not alone and that there

1049
00:50:07,048 --> 00:50:13,662
are others like us that are doing the work and
putting in the work and, you know, spreading

1050
00:50:13,686 --> 00:50:15,810
the good word of neurodiversity.

1051
00:50:17,230 --> 00:50:19,294
Moshe: The good word of neurodiversity.

1052
00:50:19,422 --> 00:50:20,102
Kate: Yep.

1053
00:50:20,246 --> 00:50:22,542
Moshe: Well, thank you for coming on today.

1054
00:50:22,606 --> 00:50:25,730
And we'll be back next week.

1055
00:50:26,510 --> 00:50:28,326
Well, that's our show for today.

1056
00:50:28,478 --> 00:50:30,806
Now, you know when autistic just a little bit

1057
00:50:30,838 --> 00:50:31,410
better.

1058
00:50:31,870 --> 00:50:35,320
So something you may not know about some

1059
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,780
autistics is that we often struggle with
ending social interactions.

1060
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:41,820
So, Leah.

1061
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:43,664
Kate: All right, Moshe

1062
00:50:43,712 --> 00:50:45,040
Leah: I'll take care of it.

1063
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,480
Thank you for listening to now, you know, one

1064
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,088
autistic.

1065
00:50:48,144 --> 00:50:48,920
See you next week.